Acceptable drill rifles

Started by USAFAcadet2018, May 01, 2014, 07:22:18 PM

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USAFAcadet2018

With the demise of the NCGC and the rewriting of the regulations, what would be some guidelines for parade rifles? I understand they must be non operational, but do they need slings? And specific color they have to be?
C/2dLt Nicholas Martin
Flight Commander, SWR-NM-083 "Spirit"
NMWG Color Guard coach

Eclipse

Anything you can get your hands on from a block of wood to demilled M14's.

Two hints - practice with the wood, and the M14's are too heavy for the average cadet to be carrying around for a long time.

"That Others May Zoom"

a2capt

Quote from: Eclipse on May 01, 2014, 07:26:18 PMTwo hints - practice with the wood, and the M14's are too heavy for the average cadet to be carrying around for a long time.
Builds character. Practice with what you're going to compete with.

You've still got local/region competitions in many instances, too.

Eclipse

Heh - another thing which will "build character" is getting caught spinning and throwing brand new rifles
after being told specifically "never do that with these".

"That Others May Zoom"

a2capt

That's a discipline problem. Both before, and after.

Why are we here? To learn and master the materials and actions described in the rules of engagement, to come together as a team, and ultimately show the judges how hard we worked.

NIN

I don't know how much character building there is in a 5' 3" 90 pound cadet trying to hold up a 10 pound drill rifle
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
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Майор Хаткевич


Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Eclipse on May 01, 2014, 07:33:34 PM
Heh - another thing which will "build character" is getting caught spinning and throwing brand new rifles
after being told specifically "never do that with these".

Why would anyone on a color guard ever spin or throw a rifle? Doing so when with the colors is both dangerous and a distraction from their assigned function, that of guarding the colors. Therefore, they shouldn't be told to spin or toss. If someone decides that an actual prohibition should be given, then give it. And hold accountable anyone who violates that prohibition.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

Luis R. Ramos

The Color Guard members I have seen throwing rifles were doing that because they were also members of a Drill Team. They were practicing the routines they would use for their drill team, not their Color Guard routines...
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

a2capt

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on May 01, 2014, 10:23:31 PMWhy would anyone on a color guard ever spin or throw a rifle?
..which is why I called that a discipline problem. :)

It's not why they're there.

Johnny Yuma

Quote from: Eclipse on May 01, 2014, 07:26:18 PM
Anything you can get your hands on from a block of wood to demilled M14's.

Two hints - practice with the wood, and the M14's are too heavy for the average cadet to be carrying around for a long time.

I dunno about that, Marine Corps and Navy JROTC units around use them for CG around here almost exclusively.

demilled 1903's and M1's can be had, but they are pricey. Expect to pay about $350 apiece. You can effectively forget M14's, Uncle Sam's keeping them for hisself what he has left. You can make a dummy M14 rifle from parts, but that'll cost you as much as buying a semiauto M1a from one of the makers.
"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"

" Skip a bit, brother."

"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:

Panzerbjorn

There are options if you gotta have an M14....

http://www.evike.com/products/24006/

Airsoft rifles would be a cheaper alternative if you're looking for the look.  Lots of different styles out there, and just pull the gear boxes and electricals to cut down the weight and any temptation to play with it.  But I wouldn't go down the Airsoft route if you're planning on flipping and spinning them.  You can get rifles that are durable, but they're definitely not designed to take too many impacts on concrete or pavement.

Major
Command Pilot
Ground Branch Director
Eagle Scout

lordmonar

They would have to be de-miled first....but those look nice.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Panzerbjorn

Quote from: lordmonar on May 20, 2014, 01:00:36 AM
They would have to be de-miled first....but those look nice.

What's the definition of de-miled?  They already can't accommodate any receiver, live rounds, etc.  they're electric toy guns.

I'm sure you're seeing something, but I can't see it.
Major
Command Pilot
Ground Branch Director
Eagle Scout

Eclipse

^ CAP regs do not allow parade rifles to be capable of any shooting any projectile.
At minimum you'd need to remove the entirely of the firing mechanism.


Per 52-16:
2-11. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any devices that could be used as weapons at cadet activities. The only exceptions to this policy are:
a. Deactivated Firearms. Cadets may use facsimile or deactivated firearms only as part of an honor guard or color guard. A deactivated firearm is one that will prevent the insertion of ammunition or the firing of a weapon. A facsimile is a copy that is not capable of firing ammunition.

"That Others May Zoom"

a2capt

De-activated, rendered not to be fired again. Gee, if they sold the RMA'ed airsoft stuff.. after further 'breaking' it..

Panzerbjorn

#16
Ah, well, that's why I said pull the gears and electricals out.  There ya go.  Airsoft rifles also have an inner barrel usually made of brass that has a hop-up chamber attached to it (read receiver and breech).  Take that part out (it slides right out) and you have no means of firing any projectile.  You could go a step further with it and replace the inner barrel with a 7mm solid rod for weight and fill the outer barrel.

Problem solved.



Here...this is the inner barrel and hop up unit in an Airsoft M14.  It slides right out when the rifle is disassembled.  You've now taken away the ability completely for this rifle to accept and fire Plastic BB ammunition.



This is that rifle 'field stripped'. You can clearly see the 'guts' of this Airsoft rifle.  See that black thing at the left side of the receiver mechanism with the wires hanging out? That's an electric motor that drives the gear box that fires the rifle.  Take that motor off, you've completely disabled the rifle.

Major
Command Pilot
Ground Branch Director
Eagle Scout

Panzerbjorn

#17
You want a Garand for the same price as that M14 without any fuss in de-miling it?  Here ya go...

Cheap M1 Garand Parade Rifle
Major
Command Pilot
Ground Branch Director
Eagle Scout

Brad

Quote from: Panzerbjorn on May 20, 2014, 04:15:49 AM
You want a Garand for the same price as that M14 without any fuss in de-miling it?  Here ya go...

Cheap M1 Garand Parade Rifle

Order directly from the source: http://www.paradestore.com/index.php/our-products/replica-rifles.html

Plus speaking from experience, Demil'ed M1's are perfectly usable by teens. I did exhibition drill in high school myself and our weapons were demil'ed M1s with concrete in them. About 8-12lbs and quite workable once you get the hang of them. We'd always laugh when at meets and we would ask to spin the lightweight rifles that the AFJROTC cadets had. (I was NJROTC)
Brad Lee
Maj, CAP
Assistant Deputy Chief of Staff, Communications
Mid-Atlantic Region
K4RMN

Eclipse

Quote from: Brad on May 20, 2014, 08:13:12 AMI did exhibition drill in high school myself

Yes, high school - big difference between a 12 year old and a 15-16 year old, and color guards
tend to be on the low-end of age and grade.

In >ALL< cases, the best bet is to go with the lightest, cheapest, most easy to replace option.

No one from more then 10 feet away is going to know or care what they look like as long as they semi-resemble
a weapon-ish looking thing.  The ability to move the bolt, click the trigger, or do anything but put it on your
shoulder is wasted in CAP.

I can't tell you how many "we're starting a CG" conversations begin with the rifles and end with them being
unused in the corner of someone's closet because all effort was spent on affectation and none on learning to
carry the colors.



"That Others May Zoom"