Why the emphasis on GSAR

[SarDragon]

By news report cross referenced from the CAP website. Well surely the CAP aircraft did isolate the signal.  Ground team was 1 senior member with DF gear and he had a park ranger with him.   HOWEVER, the actual rescue was conducted by others who had the proper tools to remove the occupants safely from the aircraft.  CAP does no training in the use of any forcible entry tools.  Also it's almost comical during exercises to see CAP ground teams rescuing anyone from a simulated aircraft crash....  Yes we can "search", but the "rescue" side of this needs supplementation by those with proper tools and advance medical skills.  To deploy into an area with a high probability of a find without supplementation by others with the proper skill sets & equipment would be terrible and could result in the death of the "find" due to CAP lack of appropriate skills/equipment and coordination efforts.   
We really need to train more in a joint agencies type environment.  Especially with local fulltime & volunteer fire departments that likely are going to be the units assisting us the greatest, along with local EMS.
RM

Well, in the closing traffic I quoted above, there were 3 GT members listed, and 4 ground team support members listed. It was more than just one SM and a park ranger.

[flyguy06]

Flyguy,

There are a lot more non-pilot types in CAP then there are pilots.  I came from a wing that ahd around 1500 members yet the pilot population within CAP was never more then a 100 Form 5 Pilot's in the 9 years I spent in that wing.  So that is why GSAR and Comm get so much attention, and like someoen else saif you really need both to have a good ES program. Will CAP ever do high angle rescue or swift water, very doubtful, but I have seen lots of GSAR personnel deployed for limited access control and to distibute food and water to victims.

That is interesting. i guess I always assumed since we are an aviation organization, we had more pilots. Our primary purpose though is air search and rescue isnt it?

[Eclipse]

That is interesting. i guess I always assumed since we are an aviation organization, we had more pilots.

As I mention above, there are plenty of people in CAP who would classify themselves as a "pilot" on a Facebook profile, however the number of members who are Form 5'ed is significantly lower.  I personally know of far too many members who are content to fly right seat for free instead of just taking a check ride and being of value to the organization.

The problems start when these "hangers-on" consume precious resources, whether that be money, time, or attention, and give nothing back to the organization.  That is where the GOB / ROMEO / Flying Club  mentality comes from.

Our primary purpose though is air search and rescue isnt it?

No.

We have a three-fold mission of AE, CP, & ES.  At least on paper they are of equal stature.  Air Search is a component of ES.  There is no such thing as "Air Rescue" in CAP.  Find and point is all an aircrew can do (or take a picture).  For argument's sake let's say Air Search is 1/3 of the total ES mission.

Again, for argument's sake, I would assign actual flight time as about 1/3 the Aerospace mission, with the majority being classroom instruction, career exploration, rocketry, and related.

With those numbers, actual flight-related activities account for about 25-30% of the actual CAP mission, which, based on my personal experience, I would say sounds about right.

[SarDragon]

Flyguy,

There are a lot more non-pilot types in CAP then there are pilots.  I came from a wing that ahd around 1500 members yet the pilot population within CAP was never more then a 100 Form 5 Pilot's in the 9 years I spent in that wing.  So that is why GSAR and Comm get so much attention, and like someoen else saif you really need both to have a good ES program. Will CAP ever do high angle rescue or swift water, very doubtful, but I have seen lots of GSAR personnel deployed for limited access control and to distibute food and water to victims.

That is interesting. i guess I always assumed since we are an aviation organization, we had more pilots. Our primary purpose though is air search and rescue isnt it?

And maybe you think that the Air Force is predominately pilots, too? There are approximately ten maintenance folks for each pilot. There are also the other non-pilot aircrew types to count, too. That's just the aviation side of the house.

Why should the CAP be any different from the AF?

[Eclipse]

The last time I saw something written down, the estimate was that about 3% of those in the USAF are aircrew (including enlisted MOS'), and the rest are support or other specialties that are DNIF.

[flyguy06]

That is interesting. i guess I always assumed since we are an aviation organization, we had more pilots.

As I mention above, there are plenty of people in CAP who would classify themselves as a "pilot" on a Facebook profile, however the number of members who are Form 5'ed is significantly lower.  I personally know of far too many members who are content to fly right seat for free instead of just taking a check ride and being of value to the organization.

The problems start when these "hangers-on" consume precious resources, whether that be money, time, or attention, and give nothing back to the organization.  That is where the GOB / ROMEO / Flying Club  mentality comes from.

Our primary purpose though is air search and rescue isnt it?

No.

We have a three-fold mission of AE, CP, & ES.  At least on paper they are of equal stature.  Air Search is a component of ES.  There is no such thing as "Air Rescue" in CAP.  Find and point is all an aircrew can do (or take a picture).  For argument's sake let's say Air Search is 1/3 of the total ES mission.

Again, for argument's sake, I would assign actual flight time as about 1/3 the Aerospace mission, with the majority being classroom instruction, career exploration, rocketry, and related.

With those numbers, actual flight-related activities account for about 25-30% of the actual CAP mission, which, based on my personal experience, I would say sounds about right.

Oh I agree with you Eclipse. Although I wil say they if if you are a FAA certificated pilot you ARE A pilto wheather or not you have a form 5 or not. ut you are right. There man membes withthe "flying club" mentality and they are of nouse to CAP in a flying capacity.they may be useful in other capacities though.

As to the missions. What I meant was as part of the ES mission, we are primarily a Air search and rescue organization,. I understand the other two mssions very well. But in the ES world our main focus is Air i always thought. Ithink cause we have more ground guys , expecially on CapTalk, that is why it is emphasized on here so much. But out in the field. I see alot of pilots and folks that want to do air SAR.
I am myself am very focused on cadet programs. In that realm I want to see more cadet pilots. More cadets applying to service academies to be military pilots. More cadets wanted to be professional pilots.

[LittleIronPilot]

My $.02 CAP has a well supported organized, trained and efficient air program.  There are few nationwide competitors, and in General CAP is well respected for this resource. 

CAP's Ground teams on the other hand have lots of competition on the local and national levels.  There are lots of certifications, training standards, and opinions running through the industry.  With all these variables there is a lot to talk about.  Many through out CAP feel that if CAP's ground teams are to be taken seriously they need to adapt to some of the national standards. 

Like I said, lots to talk about

Very true. I am a member of both CAP and the Georgia State Defense Force. I can say that besides perhaps a few individuals in the Wing, Georgia Wing GSAR resources cannot hold a candle to the GSDF ground resources.

I do CAP for flying, I do GSDF for ground.

[ZigZag911]

CAP ES personnel are, generally speaking, not "first responders" (I'm not referring to anyone's civilian job, just our CAP roles): with the limited exception of air search (which is mostly what we do -- the 'rescue' part is ordinarily left to other organizations/agencies whose personnel are better trained for it), we are almost never 'first in'.

So what are, especially in DR & HLS? I'd say force multipliers -- a (hopefully) disciplined group of people with basic ES skills and familiarization with the ICS system who are willing & ready to pitch in and help -- particularly in communications, transportation, and support roles.