Adding E.S. gear, into the dues.

[c/A1C Johnson]

I have a question wouldn't it be easier if we had an option of when the first time you join C.A.P your national dues you should have an option that you can pay like i don't know estimating 200 dollars.

And you can get a ES kit/ bag and everything you can upgrade to 72 hour and that way you won't have a cadet not having something that he/she should have.

And that way its organized everyone will have the same high quality pack and gear you can say pull out your tactical compass ,and you will be able to teach off of that one instead of going to each cadet ,and teaching them how to use there certain compasses. And etc. also you can say pull out you map book and pen witch should be in your top right pocket and etc.

That way you know each cadet is prepared and has high quality gear that will fit them and they can hike with instead of having a cadet come out with a pack that doesn't have a frame that they cant hike with.

I'm just saying it might be an easier way I might of messed it up I forget if its national or wing dues you pay well you get what I mean.



c/A1C Johnson

[Pylon]

You cite the problem as some members being unprepared for training at the time it's being provided.  Part of training for Ground Team Member is an equipment checklist.  GTM3's have certain equipment at minimum they need to have to become qualified.  If they don't have it at that time, they should defer training in those areas until they have what they need.

Additionally, if you're scheduling a training activity, you publish a packing list.  You indicate what members need to bring with them so that you can successfully complete the training.  So if members need a compass to complete a class on using compasses, then you let participants know that ahead of time.  Those who come without compasses do not participate.  Likely the second time around, nobody attending forgets their compass (or whatever you're asking they bring).

Last, equipment packages are available from the Hock as a full set; so somebody can go out, pay $X and have an instant full assortment of field gear.  Detailed lists are also available in the GT training materials so members can compile what they need from other sources.  Finally, be sure that you're issuing packing/required equipment lists before any training events to alleiviate this problem.  If you're not giving your members the opportunity to go out and buy a compass (or whatever) before the activity, then the problem rests in your planning.

Tying this sort of deal into dues, besides being a strange arrangement, would put an undue burden on NHQ to act as some sort of supplier to solve a problem that can be resolved at the squadron level or lower.

[c/A1C Johnson]

You cite the problem as some members being unprepared for training at the time it's being provided.  Part of training for Ground Team Member is an equipment checklist.  GTM3's have certain equipment at minimum they need to have to become qualified.  If they don't have it at that time, they should defer training in those areas until they have what they need.

Additionally, if you're scheduling a training activity, you publish a packing list.  You indicate what members need to bring with them so that you can successfully complete the training.  So if members need a compass to complete a class on using compasses, then you let participants know that ahead of time.  Those who come without compasses do not participate.  Likely the second time around, nobody attending forgets their compass (or whatever you're asking they bring).

Last, equipment packages are available from the Hock as a full set; so somebody can go out, pay $X and have an instant full assortment of field gear.  Detailed lists are also available in the GT training materials so members can compile what they need from other sources.  Finally, be sure that you're issuing packing/required equipment lists before any training events to alleiviate this problem.  If you're not giving your members the opportunity to go out and buy a compass (or whatever) before the activity, then the problem rests in your planning.

Tying this sort of deal to dues, however strange, would nonetheless put an undue burden on NHQ to act as some sort of supplier to solve a problem that can be resolved at the squadron level or lower.

But it might be easier if you can just get one package when you join instead of running around to diffrent places.

[c/A1C Johnson]

It also gets expensive especalliy if your new and dont know places or people to get these things cheap.

[capchiro]

Cadet Johnson, you mention a cadet not having something they should have.  Considering that when a cadet joins they need to lay out about $100.00-$150.00 for a complete BDU uniform, and the fact that not all cadets are into ES, and the fact that very few Cadets would even be ready for ES equipment for at least six months, I vote against the idea.  That being said, please continue to offer your ideas for improvement with the program and don't get discouraged if/when some have opposing ideas to yours.  Welcome aboard cadet.

[c/A1C Johnson]

Cadet Johnson, you mention a cadet not having something they should have. considering that when a cadet joins they need to lay out about $100.00-$150.00 for a complete BDU uniform, and the fact that not all cadets are into ES, and the fact that very few Cadets would even be ready for ES equipment for at least six months, I vote against the idea. that being said, please continue to offer your ideas for improvement with the program and don't get discouraged if/when some have opposing ideas to yours. welcome aboard cadet.

Thanks well it can be an option forever say you don't accept it your first year you can always have that option because you don't ever know when something is going to wear out or break on a sarex or something that said i don't think that a bdu uniform is that expensive sure if your buying a gortex with it but if your not buying one its maybe 90 dollars. Aslo it might catch on at e services just like your picture card you can order your package.

Thank You

c/A1C Johnson

Tags - MIKE

[Pylon]

But it might be easier if you can just get one package when you join instead of running around to diffrent places.

Besides the fact that not all cadets participate in ES (and of the cadets that choose to, not all participate in Ground Ops), you can opt to buy just one package to buy all your ES gear.

http://www.thehock.com/shop/?shop=1&cart=566169&cat=39&;

[capchiro]

I was including boots in the BDU price.

[c/A1C Johnson]

 

But it might be easier if you can just get one package when you join instead of running around to diffrent places.

Besides the fact that not all cadets participate in ES (and of the cadets that choose to, not all participate in Ground Ops), you can opt to buy just one package to buy all your ES gear.

http://www.thehock.com/shop/?shop=1&cart=566169&cat=39&

I mean make a reg or a usual that everone have that same gear and pack and those posting hock shop links this is just my personnel opinion, but i don't really like hock shop and i know other cadets dontlike it either nothing wrong with it its a great company they just need to pack a little more stuff  into the E.S. pack not much in there.

Just my personal opinion.

[c/A1C Johnson]

I was including boots in the BDU price.

that makes sense understood

[Pylon]

I mean make a reg or a usual that everone have that same gear

We already have a list. 

Members must possess appropriate individual equipment for ground team training to complete task O-0001 for their SQTRs.

Ground & Urban DF Team Task Guides, see the list, page 4 - 6.

[c/A1C Johnson]

I mean make a reg or a usual that everone have that same gear

We already have a list. 

Members must possess appropriate individual equipment for ground team training to complete task O-0001 for their SQTRs.

Ground & Urban DF Team Task Guides, see the list, page 4 - 6.

i mean a reg saying you must have this certain pack so everyone has the exact same thing.

[Pylon]

i mean a reg saying you must have this certain pack so everyone has the exact same thing.

Who would be required to have this pack?

Who is going to pay for it?

[c/A1C Johnson]

i mean a reg saying you must have this certain pack so everyone has the exact same thing.

Who would be required to have this pack?

Who is going to pay for it?

Well the cadet would and anyone cadet that wants to be called for a S.A.R

[Pylon]

well the cadet would and anyone cadet that wants to be called for a S.A.R

And any cadet that wants to go on a SAR mission is going to need what type of CAP ES rating?

[c/A1C Johnson]

well the cadet would and anyone cadet that wants to be called for a S.A.R

And any cadet that wants to go on a SAR mission is going to need what type of CAP ES rating?

I dont know or have any information on that but im just saying it will be easier having all the same pack and equiment in the same place all organized and everything.

[♠SARKID♠]

i mean a reg saying you must have this certain pack so everyone has the exact same thing.

Why the heck would you want that?!  I assume you haven't done copious amounts of SAR yet.  You'll find very quickly that there is a plethora of things you would like to have in your gear that isn't on the list.  Standardizing gear doesn't exactly fit the whole "adapt to your environment" idea.  Frankly, I in Wisconsin am not going to have the same gear needs as someone in Alabama.  Your gear should be custom tooled by you, to your needs in the field.

Gear issued by nationals would be just the basics on the 24 hour list.  Not to mention, it would probably be the cheapest stuff they could find.  Building your own gear lets you get good quality equipment, put it in a pack of your choice (i.e pistol belt, vest, LBV, etc), and customize your gear to what you need it to be.

[JoeTomasone]

I will add my concurrence to Cadet Turkal's observations - not everyone wants the same gear - even choosing different types of materials to meet the requirements of the 24 and 72 hour packs.  Here on this board you can find debate on which is better - ALICE gear, several types of tactical vests, etc, just to cite one example.

As another practical example, the list calls for a spare pair of socks.   One very seasoned ground team leader suggested to me that I ditch the plain old white tube socks that I had and to obtain socks that are specially made to wick moisture away from the feet.  I did (and now use them exclusively when in BDUs) and am much happier.   I think that if National supplied everyone with a standard package, much of it would be wasted effort as people upgraded items for various reasons.

[isuhawkeye]

Not everyone can even wear the same gear.  With different body shapes and sizes a one size fits all approach doesn't work even the military has several sizes of the same equipment.  They also have different kits for different specialties.  Just because you have a group of GTM1's doesn't mean they will all carry exactly the same thing.  One person may be the commo for the team.  One will be the DF person, another may have nav as their specialty, while yet another may be a first aid expert. 

Lots of options for  a limited "Basic" gear set

[JayT]

well the cadet would and anyone cadet that wants to be called for a S.A.R

And any cadet that wants to go on a SAR mission is going to need what type of CAP ES rating?

I dont know or have any information on that but im just saying it will be easier having all the same pack and equiment in the same place all organized and everything.

My gear has gone through several iterations over my time in CAP. You gradually learn what you need, and what you don't need. What I carry on a real mission may or may not be the same thing I carry on a SAREX.

[Pylon]

And any cadet that wants to go on a SAR mission is going to need what type of CAP ES rating?

I dont know or have any information on that but im just saying it will be easier having all the same pack and equiment in the same place all organized and everything.

That would be a good place to start.

https://tests.cap.af.mil/ops/tests/GENES2004_files/frame.htm

[davedove]

The biggest argument against having the gear covered by dues is that not everyone needs it.  Even among ES folks, not everyone needs the gear.  Someone who only works at mission base does not need ground team gear.

Now, I can understand wanting to standardize gear, to a point.  Not everyone will carry exactly the same gear because they have different functions on the team.  But if everyone were in the same style and color gear, the team would look more like a team.  But CAP can't even get the uniforms the same, how can we expect the gear to be the same.

[c/A1C Johnson]

Now, I can understand wanting to standardize gear, to a point.  Not everyone will carry exactly the same gear because they have different functions on the team.  But if everyone were in the same style and color gear, the team would look more like a team.  But CAP can't even get the uniforms the same, how can we expect the gear to be the same.

So true.

Tags - MIKE