Wing Policy Only They Print Out/Laminate ES Qualification Cards?

[RADIOMAN015]

Interestingly, the wing OPR seems to get upset when we print out our own ES cards and laminate them.  I don't see anything in the regulation that says that one can't print out their own cards and place it in a piece of plastic.

Is this something that wing really needs to worry about
RM     

[Al Sayre]

That's why Ops Quals says: "To print your 101 card, click here to print." (emphasis mine)

[lordmonar]

Is this something that wing really needs to worry about
RM   

No.

It is just one of those old school ideas...since wing can't control the training, they don't want to control the trainer, they think they want to control the cards.

Ignore them.

[SARDOC]

I typically just print a new one before I leave the house on each mission...no fuss and accurate to the day.  I think Membership and ES quals should be verified via eServices on Check in.

[Ed Bos]

I was in MAWG and a member of the Wing ES staff when that rule was instituted.

The problem prior to that was an inconsistency of training and a lot of pencil whipping.

By ensuring the Wing ES staff saw the cards, we had a very good picture of how the training around the wing was being conducted.

Telling someone to ignore a rule seems really cool and rebellious, but you're causing a headache for everyone who might be depending on others to show a little professionalism and teamwork-oriented attitude.

By the same token, if the Wing ES staff isn't still using their review of 101 cards for that reason, they should revisit how the supplement the 60-3. No reason to have the rule if it isn't still being used to solve a problem.

[Майор Хаткевич]

How does the Wing printing the cards ensure quality training? Prevent pencil whipping?

[ol'fido]

It doesn't. Unfortunately, there is a breed of staff officer out there that likes to build a "fiefdom". It is about power and control. So they institute lots of new forms, policies, and procedures that allow them the illusion of power and control. They do this instead of pushing everything that the regs allows down to the lowest levels possible which is where it should be. In other words, it makes everyone come to them instead of them getting out in the field and making sure their SETs are doing things the right way and that real training is going on.

[RVT]

It doesn't. Unfortunately, there is a breed of staff officer out there that likes to build a "fiefdom". It is about power and control. So they institute lots of new forms, policies, and procedures that allow them the illusion of power and control. They do this instead of pushing everything that the regs allows down to the lowest levels possible which is where it should be. In other words, it makes everyone come to them instead of them getting out in the field and making sure their SETs are doing things the right way and that real training is going on.

Are you in California by any chance?

[lordmonar]

I was in MAWG and a member of the Wing ES staff when that rule was instituted.

The problem prior to that was an inconsistency of training and a lot of pencil whipping.

By ensuring the Wing ES staff saw the cards, we had a very good picture of how the training around the wing was being conducted.

BS....Wing sees all the qualifications before THEY sign off on them.

Telling someone to ignore a rule seems really cool and rebellious, but you're causing a headache for everyone who might be depending on others to show a little professionalism and teamwork-oriented attitude.

It is not a rule.  It is a BS policy that put just another level of buracracy into a system that does not need it.  Wing has plenty of time and places to insert their Quality Control in the ES qualification process.  Saying they are the only ones who can print up 101 is just stupid.  It means that someone who forgot/lost their card cannot simply print one up at the mission base or just before they leave home.  Telling people to ignore stupid "rules" is the first step in telling wing to get their FECAL MATTER into shape.

[a2capt]

Are you in California by any chance?

Sure sounds like it

[JeffDG]

I was in MAWG and a member of the Wing ES staff when that rule was instituted.

The problem prior to that was an inconsistency of training and a lot of pencil whipping.

By ensuring the Wing ES staff saw the cards, we had a very good picture of how the training around the wing was being conducted.

Um, that's why Wing ES has to sign off on qualifications before they appear on the 101 card.

[ol'fido]

It doesn't. Unfortunately, there is a breed of staff officer out there that likes to build a "fiefdom". It is about power and control. So they institute lots of new forms, policies, and procedures that allow them the illusion of power and control. They do this instead of pushing everything that the regs allows down to the lowest levels possible which is where it should be. In other words, it makes everyone come to them instead of them getting out in the field and making sure their SETs are doing things the right way and that real training is going on.

Are you in California by any chance?

No. I'm in Illinois, but I've seen this here. Not necessarily in ES currently but in various areas over the years. It comes and goes in a lot of staff positions. It is one of the reasons that I let all my ES quals lapse for about 5 years. I am now slowly starting to get some back.

[Al Sayre]

Here in MS we have some strange policies on 101 cards as well, like:

You must upload all required documents before we approve the qualification.
We check all SQTRs submitted for completeness.
We check the qual's of the SET you say signed you off, to see if they were qualified to sign you off in the first place.
We also randomly call the SET's on your SQTR and ask them if they actually signed you off on that task, just to be sure you didn't put in their CAPID by mistake...

[JeffDG]

Here in MS we have some strange policies on 101 cards as well, like:

You must upload all required documents before we approve the qualification.
We check all SQTRs submitted for completeness.
We check the qual's of the SET you say signed you off, to see if they were qualified to sign you off in the first place.
We also randomly call the SET's on your SQTR and ask them if they actually signed you off on that task, just to be sure you didn't put in their CAPID by mistake...

I don't think those are strange at all...that's how the system is supposed to work.

[jeders]

Here in MS we have some strange policies on 101 cards as well, like:

You must upload all required documents before we approve the qualification.
We check all SQTRs submitted for completeness.
We check the qual's of the SET you say signed you off, to see if they were qualified to sign you off in the first place.
We also randomly call the SET's on your SQTR and ask them if they actually signed you off on that task, just to be sure you didn't put in their CAPID by mistake...

I don't think those are strange at all...that's how the system is supposed to work.

Ditto. Better that wing checks out the quals before signing off than places a draconian limit on who can print out 101 cards.

[Eclipse]

Here in MS we have some strange policies on 101 cards as well, like:

You must upload all required documents before we approve the qualification.
We check all SQTRs submitted for completeness.
We check the qual's of the SET you say signed you off, to see if they were qualified to sign you off in the first place.
We also randomly call the SET's on your SQTR and ask them if they actually signed you off on that task, just to be sure you didn't put in their CAPID by mistake...

I don't think those are strange at all...that's how the system is supposed to work.

Ditto. Better that wing checks out the quals before signing off than places a draconian limit on who can print out 101 cards.

Double ditto, but I think you were being factious.

In this case we're talking about physically printing an already approved 101 card.  And since it it outside the ability for the Wing to physically prevent it,
seems like a waste of effort.  It also sets up, as mentioned, fifedom.  As with many of these policies, they are not enforceable outside the wing, which is when you'd really want to know what your people are doing, etc.

For years we were told that 101 cards had to be on a specific color stock - first it was "the reg", then it was "wing policy", until some of us asked
for it in writing. 

Now they are white.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I miss my yellow/orange construction paper 101. :/

[lordmonar]

IIRC.....the orginal (the ones you ordered from NHQ) Blank CAPF 101's were yellow card stock....and the CAPF101T's were white.

[Eclipse]

IIRC.....the orginal (the ones you ordered from NHQ) Blank CAPF 101's were yellow card stock....and the CAPF101T's were white.

OK, you're dating both of us because I remember those, too.

The evolution appeared to be that when they went from handwritten ones to the WMU versions, my wing went to a goldenrod stock (I still see it once in
a while in a random drawer).

There was a lot made about the color requirements, and I even recall a conversation where it was insinuated that each wing had been either assigned
or chosen a specific color (which actually made some sense).

A lot of things changed for us after Katrina when we had been given the time to discuss stuff like that with other wing ESO's and national staffers.
(not to also mention the semi-poop storm from the fact that we rolled down there with a bunch of Tait's and NuTecs in our vehicles while we had
dozens of EFJ's on the shelf)

[Al Sayre]

Double ditto, but I think you were being factious. (snip)

Just a little.  Based on some of the comments I've read in various threads, it may indeed be a strange practice...