Simple Beret Question

[0]

This is just a simple question on the berets.  We've already hashed out our feelings about berets on the GTM Berets thread so I don't want to jump into that whole discussion again.  But as I was reading some of the last few posts a question came to mind.  I vaguely remember at one of the recent meetings there was talk about saying if you went to NBB you were authorized to wear the beret after you got back.  Was such an issue ever brought up and did it pass? 

Edit:  Again this is only regarding the berets from NBB nothing else. 

[smitjud]

Linky

Wearing Blue Beret and Hawk Mountain items with BDUs

  Question
  Can a cadet that participated in Blue Beret (airshow) wear the beret at squadron meetings? Cadets came back from the national board and said there was a new policy.



  Answer
  Partially true. After discussion of several options, the August 2006 National Board approved the following: "All members that attend the Blue Beret and national Hawk Mountain training can wear any awarded items that go on the uniform or the head gear with their BDUs, blue or green." The board did not approve wear of these items with service uniforms.

See August 2006 National Board Minutes
AGENDA ITEM 19 Action
SUBJECT: New Business

4. ITEM: Wear of Blue Beret and Hawk Mountain Uniforms & Devices
COL FAGAN/MO MOVED AND COL LEVITCH/FL SECONDED that the National Board vote to allow wear of the Blue Beret and Hawk Mountain head gear by cadets and senior members on both the BDUs and dress uniform.
COL NELSON/CA MOVED TO AMEND AND COL OPLAND/DE SECONDED the amendment to allow wear of both activity head gear only on BDUs.
MOTION TO AMEND CARRIED
COL DAVIES/NATCAP MOVED TO AMEND AND COL FAGAN/MO SECONDED the amendment to allow wear of head gear at the discretion of wing commanders.
MOTION DID NOT PASS
MAJ GEN PINEDA RESTATED THE AMENDED MOTION: The members can wear the head gear that they get at Hawk Mountain and Blue Beret with their blue BDUs and green BDUs only.
COL LEVITCH/FL MOVED TO AMEND AND COL APPLEBAUM/PA SECONDED the amendment to allow the wear of any awarded items that go on the uniform or the head from Hawk Mountain and Blue Beret with BDUs only.
MOTION TO AMEND CARRIED
COL OPLAND/DE MOVED TO AMEND to allow wear of any distinctive head gear awarded at any national special cadet activities.
MOTION TO AMEND DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND
ANOTHER RESTATEMENT OF THE AMENDED MOTION: All members that attend the Blue Beret and national Hawk Mountain training can wear any awarded items that go on the uniform or the head gear with their BDUs, blue or green.
AMENDED MOTION CARRIED
FOLLOW-ON ACTION: National Headquarters implementation of policy, notification to the field and change to appropriate CAP regulations.

Link fixed so it doesn't break the board - MIKE

[0]

Thanks.  I thought so but wasn't sure. 

[Flying Pig]

In CA berets aren't authorized at all. If you go to NBB, you don't get to wear your beret here.

[Eclipse]

There is no spoon...   

[cnitas]

In CA berets aren't authorized at all. If you go to NBB, you don't get to wear your beret here.

COL DAVIES/NATCAP MOVED TO AMEND AND COL FAGAN/MO SECONDED the amendment to allow
wear of head gear at the discretion of wing commanders.
MOTION DID NOT PASS

[Eclipse]

^?^

If you read through the entire notes, it passed for NBB and HMRS people.

[mikeylikey]

So Blue Beret Attendance = Wear your Beret all the time.  (I am guessing Wing Kings can't override this??)

Also, the Blue Beret with BDU's was approved by the Air Force years ago if I am not mistaken.  However, we are still waiting on getting Hawk Bling approved on BDU's by the Air Force.  So, they may have said wear your hawk junk, but until AF says OK, the junk can only be worn on the BBDU's.

 

[Eclipse]

So Blue Beret Attendance = Wear your Beret all the time.  (I am guessing Wing Kings can't override this??)

The ability for local commanders to limit or prohibit the item was not curtailed.  I know HWSRN tried to ram that through, too, and was defeated on the idea.

Also, the Blue Beret with BDU's was approved by the Air Force years ago if I am not mistaken.

Only for wear during NBB by graduates.

[mikeylikey]

^ Thanks for the clarification! 

[FW]

In May, the NEC "clarified" the NB agenda item.  NBB can be worn as directed anywhere.

[0]

In May, the NEC "clarified" the NB agenda item.  NBB can be worn as directed anywhere.

But is it still only with BDUs and BBDUs or can it now be worn with the service dress?

[Pylon]

The NB clarified field uniforms, but there has not been AF approval of this policy for AF-style uniforms.  The NB's action would take effect immediately for all corporate uniforms, and must wait for AF-approval for AF-style uniforms.  You should wait until an ICL or new CAPM 39-1 is released before wearing anything related to these actions.

[FW]

In May, the NEC "clarified" the NB agenda item.  NBB can be worn as directed anywhere.

But is it still only with BDUs and BBDUs or can it now be worn with the service dress?

The headgear can only be worn anywhere with BDU's or BBDU's.  BUT, only if you are a graduate of NBB.  Otherwise, like in Indiana Wing's case, keep its wear "local".    CAPR 39-1 has been changed with the NEC vote.  However, publishing the change will come when....(?)    

Pending USAF approval is for items "attached" to the BDU's (patches, tabs, etc.)

[0]

Luckily I haven't been yet.  But I was just curious cause I'm hearing yes and no but no and wanted to know what the right answer was. 

[mikeylikey]

Pending USAF approval is for items "attached" to the BDU's (patches, tabs, etc.)

I think headgear is an "attached" item.  As are boots, and other things you decide to wear when wearing AF-style.  Sunglasses, canteens (now camelbacks) bags etc, all had to be approved for wear with AF-Style, I just can't imagine the hat you wear with the uniform would not have to be approved. 

(Not that this matters to me, I wear an orange piece of garbage and get laughed at by everyone that sees it). 

[0]

Pending USAF approval is for items "attached" to the BDU's (patches, tabs, etc.)

I think headgear is an "attached" item.  As are boots, and other things you decide to wear when wearing AF-style.  Sunglasses, canteens (now camelbacks) bags etc, all had to be approved for wear with AF-Style, I just can't imagine the hat you wear with the uniform would not have to be approved. 

(Not that this matters to me, I wear an orange piece of garbage and get laughed at by everyone that sees it). 

But at least it's makes you safe.  :clap:

[FW]

Pending USAF approval is for items "attached" to the BDU's (patches, tabs, etc.)

I think headgear is an "attached" item.  As are boots, and other things you decide to wear when wearing AF-style.  Sunglasses, canteens (now camelbacks) bags etc, all had to be approved for wear with AF-Style, I just can't imagine the hat you wear with the uniform would not have to be approved. 

(Not that this matters to me, I wear an orange piece of garbage and get laughed at by everyone that sees it). 

And they gave me a nice one for "everyday wear".  I keep it in the trunk of my car.  Haven't worn it since HMRS '07.

Anyway, Blue Berets are already allowed for wear with BDU's.  The USAF allows the approved headgear options as described in 39-1.

We're waiting approval for "Boonie hats".  and some other attached "stuff" which hasn't yet been addressed.  I wonder if they're going to send us some nuclear fuses with their approval? 

[Duke Dillio]

^Loading nukes on the bottoms of Cessnas.......

I just wouldn't want to be the guy to depress the deploy switch.  I don't think you could get away fast enough.....

[DC]

Not so subtle allusion the the recent 'whoopsie' by the Air Force that sent nuke detonators to Taiwan.

[mikeylikey]

  I wonder if they're going to send us some nuclear fuses with their approval? 

Inside joke alert!  

-----> http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5245.0

Anyway.......I wasn't thinking that the AF already approved them.  Major memory slippage on my part......my orange ballcap must be too tight!

[Eclipse]

Anyway, Blue Berets are already allowed for wear with BDU's.  The USAF allows the approved headgear options as described in 39-1.

Amazing, its off-handed statements like that which start these debates and cause problems for members.

They are currently allowed for a narrow CAP population inside of prescribed set of activities and circumstances. 

Outside of that, the debate rages as to where they are allowed, and if a respective wing or another even has the authority to allow their wear.

To off-handedly make a statement like the above ignores the very real, legitimate debate over this issue, which like many similar things is centered on a silly hat, but actually includes "states rights" type issues in other areas as well.

[lordmonar]

But there is no debate berets.

USAF-CAP has authorised them for wear with all uniforms....and no one in the chain has ever made anyone ever stop wearing them.

The only debate is whether a beret awarded at NBB could still be worn once the individual is no longer at NBB....and that was resolved by the NB in 2006....sort of.

[Eclipse]

But there is no debate berets.

USAF-CAP has authorized them for wear with all uniforms

No they haven't?!?!  Cite please where they are authorized for anything but BDU's in any circumstance.
They are not authorized under any circumstances with service dress or corporate equivalents.

[FW]

Anyway, Blue Berets are already allowed for wear with BDU's.  The USAF allows the approved headgear options as described in 39-1.

Amazing, its off-handed statements like that which start these debates and cause problems for members.

They are currently allowed for a narrow CAP population inside of prescribed set of reactivities and circumstances. 

Outside of that, the debate rages as to where they are allowed, and if a respective wing or another even has the authority to allow their wear.

To off-handedly make a statement like the above ignores the very real, legitimate debate over this issue, which like many similar things is centered on a silly hat, but actually includes "states rights" type issues in other areas as well.

^

You're so right!  Heaven forbid a member actually reads 39-1.  Let the debate continue and disregard my "offhanded statement".

The plain fact is: the USAF does allows us to wear the BB.  It is an authorized headgear as described in 39-1.  It is the reg. which restricts its use.  If the NB so wanted, it could change the reg to allow it worn by everyone.  I doubt it would but, ya never know now; do ya?  

BTW, I like the "states rights comment".  That's why in CAWG, they wear orange/blue(?) uniforms in the field.

[lordmonar]

But there is no debate berets.

USAF-CAP has authorized them for wear with all uniforms

No they haven't?!?!  Cite please where they are authorized for anything but BDU's in any circumstance.
They are not authorized under any circumstances with service dress or corporate equivalents.

It's authorised right there in 39-1 table 1-3 line 4.  I am assuming that USAF-CAP hacked off on that inclustion before it was included in the regulation.

It does not say anyting about BDUs only....or blues only.....it just says for special actiivities.  Ergo the wing/regional commander may authorise berets for ANY uniform combination.

If USAF-CAP or national wanted the beret for just the field uniforms....it would have so stated.

You talk about "off handed comments" and yet you do the exact same thing.

[MIKE]

Here we go again.