Some cadets in my squadron will use the Boonie hat while on SAR missions and other activities but not at our meetings and we have not been told other wise by anyone.

You understand the restriction on boonies, they have to be blue and can only worn with CAP Corporate uniforms. If your cadets are wearing woodland BDUs they can't wear 'em.

Generally someone who is being proactive (something I believe the L2K books preach) does not wait for someone to tell them otherwise, they figure out the correct course of action and see it carried out to the best of their ability. When the correct answer is freely available there is no excuse to not do things properly.

Quote from: CKH405 on June 17, 2008, 08:46:22 AM
Some cadets in my squadron will use the Boonie hat while on SAR missions and other activities but not at our meetings and we have not been told other wise by anyone.

Well, they're wrong, and you're wrong if you don't put a stop to it.

Find me a passage in 39-1 or any ICL that authroizes that.

I wear the blue BDUs, and I only wear the boonie in the field.

Find me a passage in 39-1 or any ICL that authroizes that.

hmmmmm...Show me wear it says you can't? this is worse then the uniform nazis in that army over the ACU when it isent even in AR 670-1. just a MILPER

39-1 Section 1-1 where it say
COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear

Quote from: IceNine on August 09, 2008, 07:13:01 AM
39-1 Section 1-1 where it say
COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear

Thats what I am talking about.... I wish people in the Army could actually find regulations like people in CAP can.... Or wait know them for that matter.

Strange, isn't it, that the vast majority of people at Corpus Christi's North beach go without any head gear, or, with a baseball cap...and survive to live another day; however there are those here that cite the need for a boonie hat (and it seems like a thread on it comes up like every two months or so) as if we have CAP Officers and Cadets dropping like flies.

Tell me, boonie people, do you wear a fedora hat with your regular clothes?  I do.  I best most wear a baseball cap...if anything (and maybe even backwards).

Let's just call it what it is.  You people want to "look cool," the safety issue for the boonie is a red herring (I'm mean, if you gonna demand bonnie hats for safety protection, why not "smoky the bear" campaign hats or pith helmets?)

I might be out of line in saying the above, however, that is my intial reaction to the posts I have read.

I'm almost positive Boonie Hat does not = Kool.  So maybe there is another argument

Quote from: IceNine on August 09, 2008, 04:17:04 PM
I'm almost positive Boonie Hat does not = Kool.  So maybe there is another argument

Really?  Then why are so many people continually bringing it up when it has been rejected by the USAF?  Why the use of "safety" in such a disingenuous way to justify something that, in their civilian ware, they do not sport?

It is obvious that the idea of boonie hats is merely one of those popular movements for uniform items that are verboten.  Much like USAF brown leather jackets.

Quote from: Major Carrales on August 09, 2008, 04:02:19 PM
Strange, isn't it, that the vast majority of people at Corpus Christi's North beach go without any head gear, or, with a baseball cap...and survive to live another day; however there are those here that cite the need for a boonie hat (and it seems like a thread on it comes up like every two months or so) as if we have CAP Officers and Cadets dropping like flies.

Tell me, boonie people, do you wear a fedora hat with your regular clothes?  I do.  I best most wear a baseball cap...if anything (and maybe even backwards).

Let's just call it what it is.  You people want to "look cool," the safety issue for the boonie is a red herring (I'm mean, if you gonna demand bonnie hats for safety protection, why not "smoky the bear" campaign hats or pith helmets?)

I might be out of line in saying the above, however, that is my intial reaction to the posts I have read.

I've been wearing a boonie on the flightline for the last couple of months, and I can say it does work. It will keep the sun of your ears and neck, something I didn't think about the first week, and ended up suffering from.

Would I wear a boonie hat for our ops? No, I wouldn't. Why not? Couple of reasons. One, it's not authorized. Yep, obvious reason, but there is more. Two, it took me a week for me to actually get sunburn to a point that I actually had any serious problems (actual pain and peeling). How many operations do we have that last a week, in the sun? Third, I had sunscreen available. Had I been wearing it, I wouldn't have gotten the sunburn.

As Major Carrales pointed out, how many people actually wear something similar to the boonie hat offering the same protection when not in uniform? I'm betting the list of people that do is a lot smaller than the list of people that demand it "for the safety reasons".

I wouldn't mind the option of one. But for now, I'm not going to bother having one in my car "at the ready". It's been disapproved, we need to quit complaining about it, and adapt as necessary.

QuoteAs Major Carrales pointed out, how many people actually wear something similar to the boonie hat offering the same protection when not in uniform? I'm betting the list of people that do is a lot smaller than the list of people that demand it "for the safety reasons".

Never seen any of the guys working for the FBO wearing one and never seen anyone that works in the woods for a living wearing one either.  Quite frankly I'm not sure that isn't because it doesn't help protect you from the sun, its the fact that they are just incredibly goofy looking hats and no one really wants to be caught dead in one. 

Photos like these: 

Are the only reason people want to wear boonie hats, of course we also have cadets doing SAR work who paint their faces in camouflage.   

Any safety arguments are retcon excuses designed to distract.

Quote from: Wikipedia Article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boonie_hat
The boonie hat was introduced to the U.S. military during the Vietnam War, when U.S. Army Green Berets began wearing them in the field, along with Australian and ARVN units.[1] These tigerstripe boonie hats were locally procured, the tiger stripe camo cloth was usually salvaged from other uniform items or made up by the tailor. In 1967, the US Army began issuing boonie hats, as the "Hat, Jungle, with Insect Net", made of cotton and wind-resistant poplin, in olive drab, tigerstripe, and M65 ERDL.[2] It was meant to supplement and replace the fatigue hats and baseball style caps that had been in service since World War II. While it was liked by troops in the field, it was scorned as slovenly by spit and polish officers such as Creighton Abrams.[3] As the U.S. military evolved away from a garrison mentality, the boonie found a permanent place as part of the uniform of all services. The boonie has changed little through the decades since Vietnam and is still in use in Iraq and Afghanistan as an alternative to the Patrol cap. The U.S. Military boonie hat has come in a variety of camouflage patterns; the current assortment includes US M81 woodland, three-color desert, ACUPAT, and both desert and woodland versions of MARPAT. Early issue boonie hats were olive drab.

Until this moment I never heard of Creighton Abrams, and he is now one of my heroes. 

The only reason I would even consider one is Under Armor has a really nice one in dark blue in their tactical, HeatGear line. (which, btw, are the most awesome hats ever created by man).

Quote from: RiverAux on August 09, 2008, 10:06:49 PM

QuoteAs Major Carrales pointed out, how many people actually wear something similar to the boonie hat offering the same protection when not in uniform? I'm betting the list of people that do is a lot smaller than the list of people that demand it "for the safety reasons".

Never seen any of the guys working for the FBO wearing one and never seen anyone that works in the woods for a living wearing one either.  Quite frankly I'm not sure that isn't because it doesn't help protect you from the sun, its the fact that they are just incredibly goofy looking hats and no one really wants to be caught dead in one. 

That is a matter of opinion. I usually wear one when I am out in the sun, in a non-CAP capacity. I'll wear sunscreen too, but you cannot deny that it is more comfortable to have something covering you. Sunscreen will save you from the sunburn, but not heat. As a Floridian, I am used to both heat and sunburn, but I don't like either, and would be happy to have a uniform option that prevented/helped with both. I won't say that wearing a boonie is going to make a significant difference in whether I develop skin cancer or not, but it will make the life of anyone in the sun more comfortable.

I really don't see what all the fuss with the AF is about with us not wearing the boonie. It is a 'combat item', so are BDUs, web gear, tac vests, and any other number of things CAP Ground Teams wear. It is a hat for crying out loud, a few ounces of cloth that goes on your head. I really don't think people wearing it to meetings will be an issue, as long as it is clearly stated in 39-1 (or the ICL, really  ) That is is strictly for field use, and at that only at the discretion of the Activity Commander/GTL. If people get off their FPOC and actually bother to enforce uniform regulations, this would not be an issue.

Quote
I really don't see what all the fuss with the AF is about with us not wearing the boonie. It is a 'combat item', so are BDUs, web gear, tac vests, and any other number of things CAP Ground Teams wear. It is a hat for crying out loud, a few ounces of cloth that goes on your head. I really don't think people wearing it to meetings will be an issue, as long as it is clearly stated in 39-1 (or the ICL, really  ) That is is strictly for field use, and at that only at the discretion of the Activity Commander/GTL. If people get off their FPOC and actually bother to enforce uniform regulations, this would not be an issue.

Since when are BDU's 'combat items?'

Infact, show me a reguations that says anything about 'combat items.'

Quote from: JThemann on August 09, 2008, 11:20:31 PM

Quote
I really don't see what all the fuss with the AF is about with us not wearing the boonie. It is a 'combat item', so are BDUs, web gear, tac vests, and any other number of things CAP Ground Teams wear. It is a hat for crying out loud, a few ounces of cloth that goes on your head. I really don't think people wearing it to meetings will be an issue, as long as it is clearly stated in 39-1 (or the ICL, really  ) That is is strictly for field use, and at that only at the discretion of the Activity Commander/GTL. If people get off their FPOC and actually bother to enforce uniform regulations, this would not be an issue.

Since when are BDU's 'combat items?'

Infact, show me a reguations that says anything about 'combat items.'

The Air Force has referred to the boonie as a "combat item". It may sound idiotic, but in one of the factsheets on the ABU, the Air Force referred to it as a "weapon system". It's not about our regs, it's about what the Air Force calls it, even if it's not written in one of their actual regs.

It would have been smarter for the AF Powers That Be to have simply told us "no". The "combat item" justification is pretty flimsy. The boonie is a rather hotly contested item in any branch of service it seems.

I don't care about wearing a boonie with a CAP uniform.  But I do wear them all the time outside.   In my opinion they're great in the sun.  Also take a look around a gliderport and all the funny old men will be wearing short brimmed boonie hats(the big ones block too much sky/traffic) there is a reason glider pilots wear em.   

Quote from: Major Carrales on August 09, 2008, 04:02:19 PM
Strange, isn't it, that the vast majority of people at Corpus Christi's North beach go without any head gear, or, with a baseball cap...and survive to live another day; however there are those here that cite the need for a boonie hat (and it seems like a thread on it comes up like every two months or so) as if we have CAP Officers and Cadets dropping like flies.

Tell me, boonie people, do you wear a fedora hat with your regular clothes?  I do.  I best most wear a baseball cap...if anything (and maybe even backwards).

Let's just call it what it is.  You people want to "look cool," the safety issue for the boonie is a red herring (I'm mean, if you gonna demand bonnie hats for safety protection, why not "smoky the bear" campaign hats or pith helmets?)

I might be out of line in saying the above, however, that is my intial reaction to the posts I have read.

Strange that anytime anyone suggests a uniform change we get guys who come out of the wood work and accuse us of being Posers.

Reality is somewhere in between.  So let us just stop with those ad homid (sp?) attacks.

Bottom line....the are not authorised....they should be....but until they do I'll not wear one.

ad hominem

Quote from: JThemann on August 09, 2008, 11:20:31 PM

Quote
I really don't see what all the fuss with the AF is about with us not wearing the boonie. It is a 'combat item', so are BDUs, web gear, tac vests, and any other number of things CAP Ground Teams wear. It is a hat for crying out loud, a few ounces of cloth that goes on your head. I really don't think people wearing it to meetings will be an issue, as long as it is clearly stated in 39-1 (or the ICL, really  ) That is is strictly for field use, and at that only at the discretion of the Activity Commander/GTL. If people get off their FPOC and actually bother to enforce uniform regulations, this would not be an issue.

Since when are BDU's 'combat items?'

Infact, show me a reguations that says anything about 'combat items.'

Will you find a document calling BDUs a combat item or a weapon system? No, probably not. However, it is a combat uniform, designed with the specific purpose of being worn by military personnel in combat. How is the boonie more of a combat item than a patrol cap?

If we were asking to wear Kevlar, I'd understand, we have no need for it, but a simple wide-brimed hat that is just as useful to a CAP GTM on a REDCAP as it is to an Airman in Iraq, I don't understand...

QuoteWill you find a document calling BDUs a combat item or a weapon system?

BATTLE Dress Uniform