Would you go to Haiti?

[Eclipse]

I'm referring to the situation in the Superdome and the reports of sniper fire on the bridge (and violence against ES workers).

I know NOLA was bad, and still is in some places, but it wasn't exactly the Gold Coast before the hurricane, either, especially in the 9th ward.

[Gunner C]

I would if I thought there was something particularly useful I could bring to the table.

Here's an illustration of how effective one could be in Haiti in 5 steps.

• Procure a bucket
• Fill it with water 3/4 full
• Put your fist in it
• Wait 30 seconds
• Pull your fist out

The imprint you leave will be exactly the impact you will make on the situation.  It rips my heart out to say it, but it's true.

But what will happen to you?

• Kidnapped and held for ransome?
• Murdered for the $10 bill in your pocket?
• Killed or maimed when some two-bit structure falls on you?
• Or catch some disease that western medicine hasn't heard of, much less have a cure for?

Take the worst slum in the US, multiply it by 100, and you'll have the situation in Haiti.  I don't think many of you folks who are itching to go have a real understanding of what's there waiting for you.  There's nothing in Cairo, Calcutta, or any other such place, with the possible exception of most of Bangladesh or Mogadeshu, that could even come close.

Those of us who plied out trades in the Third World have a bit of a handle on this.  Haiti is the exact last place in the world I'd ever want to go.  Were I still in the RM, I'd salute and execute.  But as a volunteer, there's no way. 

The AP and CNN are both reporting shots fired in Port-Au-Prince.

Oh those wacky media types.  They don't get out much.  Those reporters haven't ever been there on a good day.

[DogCollar]

I agree that I probably wouldn't go...not because of the danger involved...but because I think I wouldn't have the right mix of skills and training needed in the moment. 

However, people are suffering in the worst imaginable way and my heart goes out to them.  I am grateful that there are groups of well-trained persons in disaster relief, emergency medicine, engineering, sanitation, food distribution and security...and I plan to make monetary contributions to help.  Right now, I believe giving money is probably the very best thing most of us can do.

[Al Sayre]

If I had to go with CAP, it would be as an MP or IC with housing and security provided by the USAF to do photo recon of damaged areas etc.  As a GTL/GTM no way unless they lift the weapons restriction, and only then with others who have security/LE/combat training.  Otherwise I might consider going as part of a complete U.S. Forces package to work as an electrical engineer to help restore the infrastructure.   

[Spike]

However, people are suffering in the worst imaginable way and my heart goes out to them.

But the Haitians were suffering in the worst imaginable way before the quake, now they don't have cardboard boxes to sleep in.  Food, water, electricity and sewage were hardly there before the earthquake.  WHERE were all these agencies and aid from around the world then??

Seriously, if we are going to rebuild their infrastructure better than what some US citizens have, then we need to go in and clean up EVERYTHING.  From criminals to the corrupt government.  Don't forget Haiti is half an Island, and the other half seems to get along very well.  Time to get rid of that "border" and consolidate those two "countries" into one.  Then in 50 years we can make it a possesion like Puerto Rico where they get all the benefits of being an American Citizen, without having to pay taxes because they get to decide if they want to join the United States.  Umm....really Puerto Rico, time to join the Union or find your own path. 

[Walkman]

Wow. Lots of things to think about. When I made that post, Haiti was on my mind because of the news, but really I was thinking about anywhere in the world. Could CAP have been helpful after the tsunami, or in England if a disaster struck there?

[JayT]

Wow. Lots of things to think about. When I made that post, Haiti was on my mind because of the news, but really I was thinking about anywhere in the world. Could CAP have been helpful after the tsunami, or in England if a disaster struck there?

No, CAP wouldn't be helpful. It's not organized, not equiped, trained, or supplied to commit to a complex technicial rescue operation. You don't need a bunch of vollys running around, you need trained professionals with a supply line behind them.

[dwb]

I wouldn't send CAP to Haiti, it's not what we're good at.  I certainly wouldn't send cadets; I'd fear they'd be kidnapped and end up as restaveks.  And I myself wouldn't go; I don't have the right skills to be of any use.

What little infrastructure Haiti's cities did have has basically been wiped out.  They were already a politically bankrupt state, now they don't even have the limited structure that was in place to run the government.  It's a sad situation all around.

[heliodoc]

Have to agree with above posts

These are missions for folks who do this EVERY day with Standardized training and a supply system that CAP has yet to recognize both in training and curriculum that can support something this major.

The argument(s) in previous threads about CERT and CAP....this goes even beyond that.  Some quotes on FOX this AM  ....48 tons of equipment from various USAR type operators......  That is a major SARDA type event that CAP is supposed to be prepared for Stateside let alone Haiti

This is a major operation airlift wise that red white and blue patterned aircraft would merely eat up space and interfere with heavy lift operations

CAP could be best used by loadin pallets or trucks and vehicles at the local Red Cross office

[Major Lord]

I'm referring to the situation in the Superdome and the reports of sniper fire on the bridge (and violence against ES workers).

I know NOLA was bad, and still is in some places, but it wasn't exactly the Gold Coast before the hurricane, either, especially in the 9th ward.

Roger that. Anywhere the media had access was ripe as a source of disinformation to denigrate, George Bush , FEMA, etc.. As far as snipers, I and my rental SUV can attest to their presence. although the bridge report was exaggerated, there were definitely some active shooters taking pot shots there ( and I would take getting shot even once seriously and kind of personal) The military presence there sent the neer-do-wells to greener pastures.

The ninth ward  gave a lot of gangs ( or "community organizers" as they call them)  new opportunities to redraw their sphere of influence maps. The Ninth Ward residents and occupiers were significantly better armed than the populace of Haiti, but civilization was a 60 minute drive away, and they did not have quite the levels of desperation we are likely to see in Haiti.

Earthquakes, like lightning, tend to hit the same places over and over again. Our personnel on the ground, and our ships at sea, are in harm's way while in the AO. As long as Haiti remains a country based entirely on tyranny, we will be giving aspirin to a rabid wolf and patting ourselves on the back for our good work.

Major Lord

[DogCollar]

However, people are suffering in the worst imaginable way and my heart goes out to them.

But the Haitians were suffering in the worst imaginable way before the quake, now they don't have cardboard boxes to sleep in.  Food, water, electricity and sewage were hardly there before the earthquake.  WHERE were all these agencies and aid from around the world then??

Seriously, if we are going to rebuild their infrastructure better than what some US citizens have, then we need to go in and clean up EVERYTHING.  From criminals to the corrupt government.  Don't forget Haiti is half an Island, and the other half seems to get along very well.  Time to get rid of that "border" and consolidate those two "countries" into one.  Then in 50 years we can make it a possesion like Puerto Rico where they get all the benefits of being an American Citizen, without having to pay taxes because they get to decide if they want to join the United States.  Umm....really Puerto Rico, time to join the Union or find your own path.

True that the Haitians were suffering before the earthquake.  They will also suffer for many years to come.  You don't just "snap out" fo that kind of poverty.  However, I think it is a moral imparitive for us to provide the aid that is needed if we can.  No, CAP shouldn't be tasked to respond in Haiti, but I think it is appropriate for CAP members, in their capacity as American citizens to live up to the ideals our nation professes by providing emergency aid.  We can all contribute to the Red Cross, or other diaster relief agencies, and that is what is needed most.

[Walkman]

No, CAP shouldn't be tasked to respond in Haiti, but I think it is appropriate for CAP members, in their capacity as American citizens to live up to the ideals our nation professes by providing emergency aid.  We can all contribute to the Red Cross, or other diaster relief agencies, and that is what is needed most.

Good point. I could see organizing a squadron around the Red Cross like heliodoc mentioned.

[SergeantElbow]

If you really want to help the relief effort, you can donate to Missionary Flights International in Fort Pierce.  They are partnering with Samaritan's Purse to fly down thousands of pounds of relief supplies and aid workers RIGHT NOW.  They were there the day after the earthquake with relief supplies.  You can donate to their effort here: http://www.missionaryflights.org/donate-now
You also read field reports from missions in Haiti and view the progress of relief flights here: http://www.missionaryflights.org/field-reports/up-to-the-minute
Your donation right now can make a difference in the lives of the people of Haiti.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

...I could see organizing a squadron around the Red Cross like heliodoc mentioned.

I could see the story on the CAP News site... "1st Expeditionary Composite Squadron deploys to Haiti."

Someone from there would find a way to log on here and complain that boonie hats are still unauthorized.

[Spike]

...I could see organizing a squadron around the Red Cross like heliodoc mentioned.

I could see the story on the CAP News site... "1st Expeditionary Composite Squadron deploys to Haiti."

Someone from there would find a way to log on here and complain that boonie hats are still unauthorized.

ADD "1st Expeditionary Composite Squadron RANGER TEAM deploys to Haiti"

I know some Rangers are just waiting for the call and polishing their whistle chains and making sure their ranger grade badges are up to date.     I Joke, I don't hate rangers....

[flyerthom]

CAP could be utilized here to help load supplies onto ships leaving the US.

As for me - if CAP helathcare staff could go as a supplement to US Military medical staff I'd go in a heart beat. As I suggestted in a different thread as staff on the USNS Comfort or Mercy. We could do serious good work.

We aren't needed there for Urbab SAR and we're not technical rescue people like trench rescue etc. We'd only be in the way.

[Ranger75]

As a member of CAP I wouldn't believe it to be within the realm of possibility.  Having served in Rwanda and Zaire (Democratic Republic of Congo) at the height of the '94 genocide and humanitarian relief effort, I can state with a degree of experience that we lack the appropriate skill sets, organizational structure, and logistical mechanisms to operate within such a challenging operational environment.  That being said, there is a possibility that I could deploy to Haiti, or be responsible for directing others to augment the deploying Joint Task Force being directed by U.S. Southern Command.  If I go forward, I will do so with confidence that I will be in the company of other professionals trained for such demanding circumstances. 

[PHall]

CAP could be utilized here to help load supplies onto ships leaving the US.

Oh yeah, the Longshorman's Union would really be happy with that idea. NOT!

And I don't know too many (any) CAP members who are qualified to operate the equipment that moves shipping containers from trucks to the ship.

[CadetProgramGuy]

What Haiti needs is several USAR and DMAT teams.

[Alpha]

Ha ha...CAP can't even get out of it's own way.

Go to Haiti?    Are you serious?    LOL