Civil Air Patrol Rangers

N Harmon · March 23, 2009, 10:15:39 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Air_Patrol_Ranger

QuoteThe National Search and Rescue Manual states that DoD personnel may be available to assist in search operations. First to be considered are Air Force Pararescue personnel, followed by Explosive Ordnance Disposal teams of the US Army, Navy, or Air Force, then US Navy Seal Teams or CAP Rangers.

This page needs....

A wakeup to reality
Massive editing

Anybody want to help?

JohnKachenmeister · March 23, 2009, 11:54:53 PM

As of a few years ago, the Air Force, it its AFI detailing the relationship between them and CAP refered to our ground team units as "Rangers."

That term was dropped about two years ago, IIRC.

Smokey · March 24, 2009, 12:33:08 AM

Now that's going to go to some people's heads!!!!

I can see it now....shades of Rambo

FW · March 24, 2009, 12:40:10 AM

Well, if it says it in Wikipedia, it must be an absolute fact

Seriously, the program has become a wonderful training ground for basic and advanced SAR technique and those that go through the program and, STAY CURRENT, are more than competent as ground team members, leaders and trainers. And, as they did quite well in an international SAR comp last year in Canada, I wouldn't put the program down.

Major Carrales · March 24, 2009, 12:46:51 AM

I've been saving this for just such an occasion as this...

I recall, not too many months back, some here that were hoping to have CAP Cadets join the Sea Cadet's "SEAL" program and other activities.

Now, if there are people pushing for CAP SEAL qualified members, then there can be CAP Rangers (which seem to have a "history" in CAP).

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

BillB · March 24, 2009, 12:49:34 AM

Of cpourse there is also the U.S. Ranger Corp.

DBlair · March 24, 2009, 12:51:43 AM

Putting CAP "Rangers" in the same sentence as Navy SEALS and AF PJs, Oh my...

Why do I get the idea that this was at least partly written by some overzealous high speed wannabe-special ops Cadet?

Perhaps this wikipedia entry could be re-written to more accurately portray the CAP Ranger program. Are CAP "Rangers" well trained? Sure. Do they warrant being considered in the same light as the SEALS and PJs? No way.

Al Sayre · March 24, 2009, 12:57:09 AM

If it's a quote from the ~~DOD~~ National Search and Rescue Manual as claimed, correcting Wikipedia isn't going to help much...

Major Carrales · March 24, 2009, 12:59:15 AM

Quote from: DBlair on March 24, 2009, 12:51:43 AM
Putting CAP "Rangers" in the same sentence as Navy SEALS and AF PJs, Oh my...

Why do I get the idea that this was at least partly written by some overzealous high speed wannabe-special ops Cadet?

Perhaps this wikipedia entry could be re-written to more accurately portray the CAP Ranger program. Are CAP "Rangers" well trained? Sure. Do they warrant being considered in the same light as the SEALS and PJs? No way.

If the term "ranger" is to be used in CAP, it will not (and should not) be some sort of "poser-pretenderist" idea ripping off the Army's Ranger program. I would say, a better model would be "Forest Service" rangers that are those that can preform in raw terrain (thus, the RANGE) based on doing ES in that envrionment.

Any other use (including ranger "tabs," painted CAMO faces and the like) invites ridicule.

Now, an extrememly well trained CAP Officer or Cadet skilled enough to traverse and survive in woodlands, deserts and the like in support of the mission (and I mean for "real," not just a qual, weekend campout and without the need for trinkets and special garb), I could support the use of the term Ranger.

DBlair · March 24, 2009, 01:07:16 AM

Quote from: Al Sayre on March 24, 2009, 12:57:09 AM
If it's a quote from the ~~DOD~~ National Search and Rescue Manual as claimed, correcting Wikipedia isn't going to help much...

I wonder if the DOD manual actually says that or whether it is a false quote. I'd be surprised if the DOD would even consider allowing it to be phrased like that.

Al Sayre · March 24, 2009, 01:09:03 AM

I was wondering that myself, but it's 272 pages and not searchable, so I'm not really that curious...

DBlair · March 24, 2009, 01:16:06 AM

Quote from: Al Sayre on March 24, 2009, 01:09:03 AM
I was wondering that myself, but it's 272 pages and not searchable, so I'm not really that curious...

LOL Likewise.

lordmonar · March 24, 2009, 01:20:39 AM

Quote from: DBlair on March 24, 2009, 12:51:43 AM
Putting CAP "Rangers" in the same sentence as Navy SEALS and AF PJs, Oh my...

Why do I get the idea that this was at least partly written by some overzealous high speed wannabe-special ops Cadet?

That sentance was writted by the USAF in a manual that drove all USAF rescue operations for over a decade.

No where in that wiki page is anyone putting them in the same light as PJ, Seals or othe special foces. Only here on this board is anyone equating CAP Rangers with them.

lordmonar · March 24, 2009, 01:32:40 AM

I downloaded the U.S. Supplement to the IAMSARMAN http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg534/manuals/Natl_SAR_Supp.pdf dated May 2000....and I did a word search....and I found

Quote2.12.3 DOD resources that may be available to assist include Air Force pararescue personnel, and specialized teams such as Army, Navy, and Air Force explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) teams, Navy sea-air-land (SEAL) teams, or CAP ranger teams.

emphasis mine.

It's official folks....live with it.

Major Carrales · March 24, 2009, 01:35:43 AM

Quote from: lordmonar on March 24, 2009, 01:32:40 AM
I downloaded the U.S. Supplement to the IAMSARMAN http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg534/manuals/Natl_SAR_Supp.pdf dated May 2000....and I did a word search....and I found

Quote2.12.3 DOD resources that may be available to assist include Air Force pararescue personnel, and specialized teams such as Army, Navy, and Air Force explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) teams, Navy sea-air-land (SEAL) teams, or CAP ranger teams.
emphasis mine.

It's official folks....live with it.

Hummmm...seems like maybe we need to "beef up" CAP ground forces.

RedFox24 · March 24, 2009, 01:58:10 AM

This may be considered off topic, if it is please excuse the post, it is not intended to hijack it.

Back in the mid to late 1970's, when I joined as a cadet, there was a Ranger program and CAP ground teams were called Ranger Teams, or at least they were here in Illinois. I never heard the phrase "Ground Team" until early to mid 1980's.

I have, in box in my storage shed, a copy of the Ranger Manual and also a copy of the draft manual with all the editing marks in it given to me by one of the authors in the late 1980's. Somewhere in those boxes I also have some slides of "Ranger Training" conducted here in Illinois Wing, complete with the old military jeeps, rappelling, and I forget what all else. Circa 1975-1979 ?? I think.

A lot of these people had been to Hawk Mountian or a similar program I believe.

I do not know if this was a nation wide program or just a wing/region program. I remember that shortly after I joined CAP that the program was winding down as Illinois moved from Sector to Group commands. At about the same time NCSA offered the first US Air Force Academy Survival Course and PJOC the same year. I went to PJOC and another cadet in our unit went to the Survival School. By the time I was ready to go to the Survival School, it wasn't offered anymore. Hawk Mountian was pushed and so was Blue Beret for Ground Teams.............

Again I think I remember correctly, that was a long time ago. Olefido can shed some light on this as well, he joined before I did.

I am not saying that this is what the original post refers to. It is just one of those funny things I remember from 30+ years ago when I joined CAP and have kept in my collection of CAP keepsakes that I treasure for some odd reason.

Maybe the CAP historians can shed some light on this.............

sardak · March 24, 2009, 02:10:30 AM

And an earlier version,
National Search and Rescue Manual, Vol I: National Search and Rescue System

CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF, Washington, D.C. 20318-0200

Joint Pub 3-50, COMDTINST M16120.5A, 1 February 1991

page 2-10, section 233

C. Air Force pararescuemen are highly trained land SAR personnel and the first considered for supervision of ground search teams. Specialized teams such as Army, Navy, and Air Force explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) teams, Navy sea-air-land (SEAL) teams, or CAP ranger teams should be considered next.

D. Nonmilitary governmental SAR teams, such as those of county sheriffs, and United States Forest and National Park Services are normally also well qualified. Privately organized, amateur rescue teams active in land SAR exist nationwide. Volunteers may be used for land search missions if appropriate equipment and supervision are provided. Chapter 8 provides guidance for land SRU use.
--------------

Mike

CAP_truth · March 24, 2009, 02:17:22 AM

The Pennsylvania Wing's Hawk Mountain was originally named Pennsylvania Ranger School back in the late 60s and early 70s.

alamrcn · March 24, 2009, 02:29:36 AM

It's used all over Civil Air Patrol in many ways...

A certain image or mystique implied or not, for us - it's just another name. Just like "tactical", "special", "counter", "operations" and many others that we tack onto our groups, programs or training schools.

BuckeyeDEJ · March 24, 2009, 02:47:18 AM

Quote from: alamrcn on March 24, 2009, 02:29:36 AMA certain image or mystique implied or not, for us - it's just another name. Just like "tactical", "special", "counter", "operations" and many others that we tack onto our groups, programs or training schools.

Doesn't NAPA have "counter operations"? And can you get parts on "special orders"?

Yip, the words don't always mean the same thing....