HR1333 - current status

[DrJbdm]

As for armed CAP members, while possible, I feel this is extremely unlikely

  It's no longer unlikely, it has come to pass. The Texas Wing Commander has now authorized members who are Law Enforcement Officers to be armed while in CAP uniform, all the member has to do if fill out a short form, provide a copy of their Dept. ID and have a supervisor at their agency sign the form to attest that they are a LEO, that's it and now the member may be armed in CAP uniform.

  The Wing Commander will issue written authority for the member to be armed, it also further states that CAP can not disarm the member and that they may be armed at all times.

  This came along as many departments have a policy that requires that an officer be armed while off duty, CAP really had no choice, it was either allow police officers who are members to be armed or exclude membership to police officers....and trust me, that is the last thing CAP wants to do, cops make some of the best members.  it is important to understand that this is a Texas Wing policy, it has not been approved as a National CAP policy, and it only applies to current full time federal, state or local police officers, retired officers, reserve officers or those members with a CHL are not included.

  Over all it was an interesting development, it was something that should have been done a long time ago.

[Eclipse]

The above is nothing new, and applies to every wing where the Wing CC is so inclined to write the authorization, the allowance has been in place since at least 1986.

1. Firearms. Civil Air Patrol members will not carry, wear, or use firearms, including air guns (pellet or BB) while engaged in Civil Air Patrol activities. The carrying of firearms prohibition is subject to the following exceptions:

a. A member may carry firearms on his/her person when required to do so by law provided he/she has a written statement of proof of such requirement signed by the Wing Commander.
b. Firearms may be carried in survival gear in CAP aircraft when required by law. When firearms are so authorized, they will not be removed from the survival gear unless an emergency situation exists.
c. Firearms may be used under strict supervision as authorized in CAPM 50-16.

(emphasis mine)

This does not mean that CAP members, LEO or otherwise, are authorized to be wearing a weapon in full view of the public on a holster over their BDU's or service dress, it always allowed for LEO's to be armed discreetly (as they have done for years).

You will >never<, ever, never, ever, see any CAP members who do not have some authorization / requirement from another agency authorized to carry weapons.

Never, ever.

Never.

[RiverAux]

Actually, it is something new if it were in accordance with CAP regs (which it is not).  A LE agency policy IS NOT LAW.  It is no different than an internal policy of any employer and CAP is not required to honor it.  I don't see how a wing supplement is going to trump the clear language of 900-3. 

[Eclipse]

Actually, it is something new if it were in accordance with CAP regs (which it is not).  A LE agency policy IS NOT LAW.  It is no different than an internal policy of any employer and CAP is not required to honor it.  I don't see how a wing supplement is going to trump the clear language of 900-3. 

The requirement to carry a firearm is a part of the legal definition of an LEO in many states / jurisdictions, and is, in fact, supported by law.

[RiverAux]

If it is in a law yes.  But what was brought up here was "policy".  Thats a whole different issue, and this should probably go in a different thread...

[Major Carrales]

I just see this as an instrumentality that will allow for DHS to directly task CAP on certain missions.  I see this one day becoming, if passed, a similar thing as the Counter Drug program which will require some special training.  Thus, there will be a "core/corps" of CAP Officers specially trained to work with and for DHS.  The rest of CAP will continue on its merry path.

The radical changes mentioned here may not come to pass, however, my great respect for Kach warrants that I place a good degree of value on them and thus I will await the finding of the GAO with eyes open.

[DrJbdm]

While yes the issue of members being armed while in uniform has been on the books for a while, it was rarely ever authorized, in fact I don't remember a single member who was a police officer ever getting the Wing Commander or any other Commander to follow CAPR 900-3.

 State law allows police officers to carry a firearm off duty, however state law has never made a distinction of an officer being on or off duty, it is a safe bet that a police officer is never really considered to be off duty and as such they hold full legal authority to act as a peace officer regardless of their actual duty status and in some cases may even be required to act. Dept. policy is not something an officer can choose to follow or not follow, it is very much different then a corporate policy at a regular civilian company. Dept. policy is supported by state law and it effects an officer at all times. My dept even forbids officers to have a myspace account. Our off duty behavior is watched at all times, we are never really free to do the things that a normal person can do in the privacy of their own homes...like have a myspace page.

 As for openly carrying a weapon in uniform, the actual language of the paper does not address it, it simply states that a law enforcement officer may carry his/her weapon at all times. however, I would HIGHLY doubt you would see a member carrying his weapon out in the open unless he had no viable alternative. Most department policies dictate that the weapon be carried concealed. About the only times I wear a visable weapon while out of uniform is when I'm either working a plain clothes function like CID or a special event or when I'm in in-service training, but I typically wear the department polo shirt then.

[DrJbdm]

MODS, can you break this off to a separate thread? so that the conversation may continue without our drifting off the current topic. thanks

[MIKE]

Nah... it's done.