Felons Supervising Minors: Is It Legal?

[mikeylikey]

Back to topic:

As for the individual with teenagers in his house for "training:"  If he's not in CAP, and is not conducting illegal activities, it's a moot point, unless the individual was convicted of some kind of molestation charge. . .

As for the US Ranger Corps, I see it as TP's realization that resurrecting his CAP career is a not going to happen, so he's starting his own org.

It is an extremely ambitious undertaking to spool up something like CAP, particularly without a Govt sponsor.

Don't see it as a threat to CAP. 

TP is no longer in the organization: let's leave him to pursue his own endeavors as we pursue ours, because we have a lot for us to do to get our own house in order.

I don't think we need to be all concerned with felons joining CAP.  Most will walk run away when told they have to do an FBI fingerprint check. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I sort of agree with O-Rex, but TP's choice of "Colonels" seems to leave a lot to be desired.  (But such was the case when he was in CAP, too!  )

The only heartburn I have with it is that people MAY make a connection between our former National Commander and the pseudo-Rangers.

As to the original question, there is no law forbidding a convicted felon from organizing and participating with a youth organization, unless his offenses involved child molesting. The fact that the youth organization permits such members SHOULD be disclosed to parents, but I don't know of any law which requires it.

[mikeylikey]

^ Anyone can search on the internet in all states for sex offenders.  I did my town, and found 34 people within 5 miles of me.   

[Duke Dillio]

Martha Stewart was convicted of multiple felonies IIRC...

Granted, we don't want Charles Manson being the squadron leadership officer but just because a person happens to be a felon doesn't mean that they are a bad person.  Anybody heard the story of "Tookie?"  Up til near the end, he was writing children's books and anti-gang books.

Perhaps we don't want one of the Enron guys being our finance officer, Winonna Ryder as the Supply Officer, or OJ Simpson as the acting Moral Leadership officer.  There are plenty of people out there who have served their time and given back to the community.  There was a story of a lady caught in San Diego the other day who escaped from jail like 30 years ago and she turned up down there with a family and was a great citizen in the community, and her original charges were for drug distribution...

[JoeTomasone]

^ Anyone can search on the internet in all states for sex offenders.  I did my town, and found 34 people within 5 miles of me.   

Here in Tampa, we hire them as teachers, it seems...  <groan>

(and no, not ALL teachers...)

[Duke Dillio]

^ Anyone can search on the internet in all states for sex offenders.  I did my town, and found 34 people within 5 miles of me.   

Did you mark their addresses down to perform some "black ops" on them later to "convince" them that they need to move away?

And, that's only if the offenders register like they are supposed to......

My last point would be that there are people in my area that were charged with that stuff.  If you go and look at some of the arrests though, they might have been 20 years old and dating a 17 year old who got miffed on the breakup and charged statuatory rape.  Those laws are simply horrifying if you read into them.  I remember a case where a 19 year old was charged by a girl's parents and the girl was 17 about to turn 18.  All I'm sayin is that you gotta start carding these younger women.....

[Flying Pig]

Back to topic:

As for the individual with teenagers in his house for "training:"  If he's not in CAP, and is not conducting illegal activities, it's a moot point, unless the individual was convicted of some kind of molestation charge. . .

As for the US Ranger Corps, I see it as TP's realization that resurrecting his CAP career is a not going to happen, so he's starting his own org.

It is an extremely amitious undertaking to spool up something like CAP, particularly without a Govt sponsor.

Don't see it as a threat to CAP. 

TP is no longer in the organization: let's leave him to pursue his own endeavors as we pursue ours, because we have alot for us to do to get our own house in order.

Even that, if a molester is no longer on probation or parole, there is nothing "illegal" about them being around kids. 

As far as the scenario where the 18 year old gets arrested for stuff with is 17 year old girldfriend, few and far between, but still illegal.  As far as those laws being "horrifying"?  Could you cite one of those horrifyingly written laws?

This silly US Ranger Corps, hopefully, parents will do their homework.

[mikeylikey]

Even that, if a molester is no longer on probation or parole, there is nothing "illegal" about them being around kids. 

In PA, those people can never be teachers, and in fact are forbidden to work with children in general.  We have a State Government that cares for the welfare of its children. 

I know that may not be the case in every State, but I would sure hate to be the guy to tell little Suzie's' parents she was assaulted by a guy who has done it three times to three other children prior. 

[Johnny Yuma]

In my book: A felon is a felon is a felon is a felon.

What I find incredibly interesting is that a former CAP commander and retired LEO is allowing convicted felons into his new organization and allowing them to work directly with youth. Seems to speak volumes.

[Eagle400]

What I find incredibly interesting is that a former CAP commander and retired LEO is allowing convicted felons into his new organization and allowing them to work directly with youth. Seems to speak volumes.

Well that is what happens with renegade militias.  Because they have no one to answer to, their leaders do as they please.  And because TP is a power-hungry sycophant, he will continue to do as he pleases until he is backed into a corner for which there is no escape.

Perhaps this example of extreme arrogance and autocratic style of leadership should become part of the Moral Leadership curricula...   

[Frenchie]

In my book: A felon is a felon is a felon is a felon.

What I find incredibly interesting is that a former CAP commander and retired LEO is allowing convicted felons into his new organization and allowing them to work directly with youth. Seems to speak volumes.

By far, most felonies that are committed are never solved.  It stands to reason that there's far more people out there who have committed felonies and never gotten caught than there are those who have been caught and convicted.  There's lots of people out there who AREN'T convicted felons that have no business supervising kids.  There's lots of non-felons out there who are alcoholics, womanizers, or other people of poor character who have no business being around kids.  On the other hand, there are lots of convicted felons that would be perfectly acceptable.  To pass judgment in this situation without knowing both sides of the story is simplistic.  All things being equal it may be easy to exclude all felons, but rarely are all things equal. 

Sometimes the alternative is worse.  Consider an inner city environment where there may not be enough "ideal" candidates to choose from.  Is it better to consider other screening options, or is it better to just allow the kids to do without and let them find their own ways to occupy their time?

[JohnKachenmeister]

In my book: A felon is a felon is a felon is a felon.

What I find incredibly interesting is that a former CAP commander and retired LEO is allowing convicted felons into his new organization and allowing them to work directly with youth. Seems to speak volumes.

I don't know, Johnny.  "Performing Services as an Unlicensed Contractor" is a felony in most states, but I don't keep a loaded gun handy to prevent one from coming into my house to remodel my bathrrom.

[lordmonar]

What I think is intresting is that anyone is intrested what these yahoos are doing.

So TP wants to be hard core Ranger and his felon freind is with him.

Move along folks....nothing to see here except  a couple of clowns in a little car!  It's funny....but we've all seen it before.

[flyerthom]

Lets look at this from a pragmatic view:

1) It's his time, his treasure and his deal, not ours.
2) It's his liability not ours.
3) We have enough on our plate to worry about. He is no longer a member and there fore not our concern.
4) Now is the time to look forward and build the organization from here. It's done lets move on.

[mikeylikey]

Lets look at this from a pragmatic view:

1) It's his time, his treasure and his deal, not ours.
2) It's his liability not ours.
3) We have enough on our plate to worry about. He is no longer a member and there fore not our concern.
4) Now is the time to look forward and build the organization from here. It's done lets move on.

Well said!

[Johnny Yuma]

In my book: A felon is a felon is a felon is a felon.

What I find incredibly interesting is that a former CAP commander and retired LEO is allowing convicted felons into his new organization and allowing them to work directly with youth. Seems to speak volumes.

By far, most felonies that are committed are never solved.  It stands to reason that there's far more people out there who have committed felonies and never gotten caught than there are those who have been caught and convicted.  There's lots of people out there who AREN'T convicted felons that have no business supervising kids.  There's lots of non-felons out there who are alcoholics, womanizers, or other people of poor character who have no business being around kids.  On the other hand, there are lots of convicted felons that would be perfectly acceptable.  To pass judgment in this situation without knowing both sides of the story is simplistic.  All things being equal it may be easy to exclude all felons, but rarely are all things equal. 

Sometimes the alternative is worse.  Consider an inner city environment where there may not be enough "ideal" candidates to choose from.  Is it better to consider other screening options, or is it better to just allow the kids to do without and let them find their own ways to occupy their time?

In my book: A felon is a felon is a felon is a felon.

What I find incredibly interesting is that a former CAP commander and retired LEO is allowing convicted felons into his new organization and allowing them to work directly with youth. Seems to speak volumes.

I don't know, Johnny.  "Performing Services as an Unlicensed Contractor" is a felony in most states, but I don't keep a loaded gun handy to prevent one from coming into my house to remodel my bathrrom.

I understand what you guys are saying, but my position's firm.

I've yet to see someone convicted of a felony offense didn't know what they were doing was wrong, or that the crime they were committing was indeed a felony. They knew the rules, took their chances and lost.

Many did, however, believe that the offense they were committing wasn't that big of a deal. Well, apparently someone thought enough of it to make it a felony.

I also know of no one who is ignorant of the fact that being labeled a felon has far reaching implications after their pennance to the State has been paid. Felons for decades have suffered Civil Death upon conviction and loss of RKBA since 1968, yet these are not strong enough reasons for them to avoid criminal activity.

There are even a few folks out there who believe that violent felons should be treated differently than white collar criminals, or those with property crimes felonies on their record. After reading Jeffrey Snyder's "A Nation of Cowards" I fell much as he does: property crimes are just as much a crime upon a person as a rape or assault is.

All this, coupled with the recidivism rate of felons in the criminal justice system, leads me to conclude what I posted earlier: A felon is a felon is a felon is a felon.

[Hoser]

So Johnny Yuma doesn't believe in redemption?

[mikeylikey]

So Johnny Yuma doesn't believe in redemption?

Nor does he believe our Justice System can make mistakes apparently.  It is real easy for someone to accuse another person of a crime, and then it goes to court with the "my word against your word" defense.  And Police and prosecutors like to make it look like they are doing something for their pay, so they usually try to convict innocent or not.  That is how our justice system works. 

[Flying Pig]

CAP isn't a redemption program, its an Honors Program.  As far as our justice system making mistakes?  How exactly do we as CAP filter out the mistaken convictions from the valid ones?  If you have been wrongly convicted I think you have bigger issues going on in your life outside of trying to join CAP.

[mikeylikey]

^ Your right. 

I still think when a person with a questionable background finds out we do background checks, they will mysteriously disappear.  I think this whole thing is a null point.