Exit Surveys

[Private Investigator]

It's doubtful that exit surveys will change much in the organization.  From my viewpoint there's a "Group Think" mentality and either you like it (the way it is) or you just quit.
JH

That is why at the end of the day, the Good Ole Boy Network wins. If you spent money and time to get MP/MO/MS qualified why would you let a bigoted CC and his Aircraft Manager keep you out of the 'corporate' aircraft? That is why every Commander should have to answer to their next higher Commander. 

[SunDog]

Howdy All,

Said I check back in, report on exit survey after leaving, so a quick hello (and final goodbye). . .Dropped my plan for a quiet expiration later this year - got jammed up on Form 5 CP availability, etc., etc.  Decided to just diappear IRT CAP, but my sqdn CC was getting dinged about "non saftey-current members", so I resigned to help his numbers. I let him and group CC know via personal contact. That was a couple of months ago.

So:
NHQ: no comms. Probably process those forms per routine. Maybe they don't survey people who resign. Or figure they've heard it all.

Wing: (Funnier):  - I unsubscribed from the official lists, but still get emails regarding "getting hours on airplanes" and "keeping the current MP count up".

Group: Long conversation, good guy.  But the fundamentals aren't there to stick around.  I was a bit shocked at the MP numbers, group and wing, and the rapid decline over a short period. Wing GOBN and mission/aircraft inequity have had an impact, apparently.

Sqdn: CC and OPS were very kind.

Heard from another guy who is keeping the faith, but has abandoned the SAREX and sqdn circuit - flys and trains regularly, but remains more-or-less "unaffiliated".  Used to know some MPs wo flew majority of hours in CAP, but that's not common anymore, at least not with the folks I talked to. So, things are changing in the MP community. Maybe a new model for participation will evolve, perhaps along those lines? Perhaps staunch the flow? I dunno . .

To summarize (If NHQ had asked) what motivated me, I'd say (in no paritcular order):
1. Clumsy, and badly auotmated business processes.
2. Poor user software (WMIRS, eServices).
3. Inequity in aircraft and mission distribution. 
4. Mission drift.
5. Sortie rules.
6. Bad joke safety program.
7. Egregious disrepect for member's time.
8. Deterioration of the fleet.
9. Choking, killer bureacracy - eater of resources, time, and initative. (see #1, 2, 5, and 6)

What didn't bother/matter to me:
1. Uniforms - did not give a single ****.  Not sure it was an issue with most MPs I knew.
2. Document/reg churn at NHQ. Most of it would be parapharsed by those who cared, and the rest could be safely ignored.
3. Rank structure. Again, for most pilots, I don't think it mattered much at all.
4. Who was/is National CC.  Or wing king.

What was cool:
1. The (very) occasional meaningful mission.
2. The (very) occasional challenging mission.
3. Flying with other pilots regularly.
4. Flying a lot of hours, in days gone by.

Our wing was (is) very much a GOBN, but not intentionally exclusive. At least I think not. If you could commute to the center-of-gravity/main wing home-drome, you could break in.  If not, you were an orphan; not really any serious debate about the situation - just common knowledge, and tacitly acknolwedged by the GOBN itself. So, the wing will shrink from the outside edges, no real impact for some time on the center-of-gravity. Way of the world, I imagine. . .

Best wishes,
Sundog

[Storm Chaser]

Thanks for your service to CAP and best wishes on your new endeavors.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Well, got my exit survey this weekend  really hard to tell if they are trying to be serious or not.  Is CAP National HQ so broken they can't even see they are broken?  Oh well  after the usual BS question choices they finally asked for comments and the only thing I could suggest is for CAP to abandon it's hermaphrodite existence and either return to Air Force Control with an Air Force Active Duty National Commander (even if a 0-6 terminal assignment). or abandon all pretenses of being a quasi-military organization, dump the uniforms and rank and call the CAP as it is as a civilian group looking for a purpose (but changing direction with every newly appointed national commander).  I guess it's safe to say I'll not be invited back into the fold.

[RiverAux]

I'm not sure that we should consider it a "loss" every time a member decides not to renew.  I'm not being snarky about their abilities, but just pointing out that it is unrealistic to expect everyone who joins CAP to stay until they die.  People's priorities change over their life and a lot of people can decide to leave CAP for reasons that CAP really couldn't do anything about if we wanted to. 

Now, exit interviews might actually help you get a better idea of what percentage of non-renewers might actually have been retained if CAP had done something differently. 

I think cadet retention is probably much more of a local issue (bad leadership in the squadron), but that senior retention has a much higher correlation with state and national scale issues relating to ES missions.  Outside of the few seniors that are really interested in running the cadet side of the house, the other seniors are almost all in it for ES (well, maybe a few are in it it to fly for free for whatever reasons someone wants them to fly).  A really active ES program is going to make people not worry as much about the smaller-scale issues that may drive them away. 

[James Shaw]

I have never seen the point of exit surveys.  If someone is leaving, its too late.  We should be polling our members while they are serving, not after they have already been frustrated and left.  I'd love to see NHQ do this, as opposed to soliciting members for money.

I have to agree, exit surveys are lagging indicators and it is usually to late to try and find out what is wrong. The person has made up their mind about leaving and they go. I don't know if they look at this from a leading indicator approach but it would be nice if they could look at those reasons and share them with the members so we can try and fix the issues. I have heard many conversations and chats about people leaving and they seem to get lost.

The biggest comments are centered around "Valuing Their Time". You can get many things back but time is not one of them.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Outside of the few seniors that are really interested in running the cadet side of the house, the other seniors are almost all in it for ES (well, maybe a few are in it it to fly for free for whatever reasons someone wants them to fly).  A really active ES program is going to make people not worry as much about the smaller-scale issues that may drive them away.

Assuming that ES is the focus of the member, yes.  However, as the "three legs" of CAP go, ES is actually a distant third on my list of priorities.

I joined mostly because I love virtually anything to do with airplanes...going way back to childhood...and to continue service to/in support of the Air Force.  That largely falls under AE.

Second, but a very important second, is my interest in our young people.  I was bullied a lot as a kid and did not really have a "safe place."  A huge chunk of what I want to do in CAP is help provide that "safe place" where a cadet absolutely knows that bullying, hazing, abuse, etc. will not be tolerated.  I was in the BSA as a kid but the bullying even went on there.  I hope that has changed since the 1970s.

I really don't put much stock in exit interviews/surveys.  I imagine that most of us have had them in employment situations, and I have done them as a courtesy and to not burn bridges unnecessarily, but I have sometimes wondered what is done with them.  Are they really given attention, or do they just end up in someone's CS file?

[jimmydeanno]

I'm told that there are two prevailing reasons people leave according to the exit surveys.

1) Lack of activities

2) Lack of/conflict with local leadership (probably about item #1)

[PWK-GT]

If someone is leaving, its too late..........polling our members while they are serving, not after they have already been frustrated and left.

We do have this...its a CAPF40 review.  When I was a CC, everyone got it twice a year..minimum. I was surprised a few times by what people were thinking, and it gave me opportunity to apply some resources to 'the problem'. Additionally, they enjoyed feeling like someone cared.

[ricecakecm]

When I left several years ago, after about 15 years of membership, it was a semi-planned move. I had gone as far in the organization as I desired, which was farther than I expected. I had (and still have) a frowning family, and a job at the time that had me away from home 75% of the time.  No ill feelings, my replacement had been trained and basically acting on my behalf for a few months with good success, so it was time.

I was asked to stay and have been asked several times since to come back, but even with a change of jobs where I'm now home over 75% of the time, that time I spent doing CAP is now spent with kids soccer games, taking trips with my wife, and generally enjoying life. I'd much rather spend my Saturday coaching soccer and then relaxing on my patio having a cold beer than getting anywhere near an airplane.

I keep in touch with the people I want to. If my kids have a desire to check things out when they're old enough, I may go back. Maybe not. Who knows.

People leave for a variety if reasons. Not all are negative reasons.

[Eclipse]

I was asked to stay and have been asked several times since to come back, but even with a change of jobs where I'm now home over 75% of the time, that time I spent doing CAP is now spent with kids soccer games, taking trips with my wife, and generally enjoying life. I'd much rather spend my Saturday coaching soccer and then relaxing on my patio having a cold beer than getting anywhere near an airplane.

+1 Something NHQ doesn't realize or want to accept - for those 25% hyper-engaged who were or are carrying the
weight of the organization, it's surprising how fast the G-A-S-F evaporates.

I have no idea how to change it in a volunteer "til death do you leave" paradigm, but it might be nice
to put in 10 or 15 YEARS of hard charging and not feel like a quitter if you decide to take a break, but
everyone is so short-handed that there's no way a hard-charger can disengage without leaving a bunch of friends in the lurch, which is what then fosters the sour-taste mentality.

It goes from being something you looked forward to, to something that feels like an obligation, and
the "little things" (i.e. BS) you pushed through when it was fun, become huge impediments when it's less fun.

[lordmonar]

What makes you think NHQ does not know or accept that situation?

They....just like you don't have any handy answers to the problem.   They.....just like you are volunteers as well, trying to balance work, job, family and their dedication to CAP.

Sure it is a problem.....but I don't think it help anyone to throw spears a NHQ and try to paint them with a negative brush.

[Eclipse]

They....just like you don't have any handy answers to the problem.

Incorrect - I have and have provided, simple, clear solutions to these issues.

  They.....just like you are volunteers as well, trying to balance work, job, family and their dedication to CAP.

Relevance to doing the CAP job they accepted?

Perhaps less time spent on pet projects and more on fixing things.

This organization should be singularly focused on fixing the trendlines, to the exclusion of ANYTHING ELSE.

[lordmonar]

I have no idea how to change it in a volunteer "til death do you leave" paradigm,

Wait what is it?   

You just said you had not idea on how change it...

[Майор Хаткевич]

I have no idea how to change it in a volunteer "til death do you leave" paradigm,

Wait what is it?   

You just said you had not idea on how change it...

Congrats on post 9000!

Arguing with Eclipse. Couldn't have been anything else.

[Eclipse]

I have no idea how to change it in a volunteer "til death do you leave" paradigm,

Wait what is it?   

You just said you had not idea on how change it...

If you're going to take things out of context just to try and weave a response, this will go the typical nowhere.

That comment was in regards to the way we treat volunteers ON THE WAY OUT.  Because, unlike our brethren in
the military, CAP members have no expiration date, so no matter how hard they run, or what they do,
unless they die in uniform, for many it feels like they quit. That's a year-2 problem at best and something I
would address in the unlikely situation my opinion mattered.

The fix for that, like many other CAP problems is MORE PEOPLE.  When you have depth at position and transition
options and plans, people won't feel as bad leaving after 10-15-20 years.

As to my other solutions, I've articulated them here, in detail, so many times that the letters are worn out
on the keyboard (along with the F5 key, cause TMFT doesnt' earn itself).

But you knew that.

Also congrats on 9000.

[lordmonar]

Yes...but you don't know how to get more people.

That was your basic argument in the new CPP thread about recruiting female members.

Either way....my basic point still stands.   You seem to go out of your way to try to pain NHQ as not only incompetent but unfeeling, mindless drones.

THAT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

Sure they are not perfect.  Sure some of them get focused on areas that maybe you or I don't think are priorities.   But really.  Can we back off a little.  It get's a little old after a while.

[Eclipse]

Yes...but you don't know how to get more people.

That was your basic argument in the new CPP thread about recruiting female members.

I know exactly how to get more people, and it starts with cleaning house, working the program as written,
enforcing the rules, and holding people accountable.

Recruiting "people" is not that hard when you have a functional organization.  BTDT. Recruiting "females to be overnight chaperons"
is a waste of time and effort, not to mention a bad idea.

Either way....my basic point still stands.   You seem to go out of your way to try to pain NHQ as not only incompetent but unfeeling, mindless drones.

THAT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

Sure they are not perfect.  Sure some of them get focused on areas that maybe you or I don't think are priorities.   But really.  Can we back off a little.  It get's a little old after a while.

Please don't put words in my mouth.  There's a big difference between holding people accountable to facts and actual performance,
and the characterization you insinuate.  I've defended NHQ staffers, on an individual basis, plenty of times.

But defending "people" doesn't change the trend lines or the fact that CAP is not performing even at baseline, let alone
near its potential, and the primary reason is the lack of accountability and command imperative at all levels, and "all levels"
starts at the top, since if it ain't important in Alabama, it sure ain't going to be important anywhere else.

The signal to noise ratio is simply too low.

[James Shaw]

Recruiting "people" is not that hard when you have a functional organization.  BTDT. Recruiting "females to be overnight chaperons"
is a waste of time and effort, not to mention a bad idea.

This particular piece created a lot of chatter in my area. We have almost an entre family in our squadron. The guy has 5 kids in the squadron. 2 Boys and 3 Girls. When he heard about the new rule he started to pull them all out and quit himself. In his opinion CAP doesn't trust him to be with his own kids and can't take care of them. Why would he want to be part of that organization. Fortunate for us his oldest daughter is now a SM and participates. This gentleman is a retired Marine Corps Lt Col, does work for the DOD and is a City Council Member....but in their eyes he doesn't qualify to be with his own kids. It would be a great loss for him and his family and a bigger loss for CAP for him and his family to leave.

[Private Investigator]

Recruiting "people" is not that hard when you have a functional organization.  BTDT. Recruiting "females to be overnight chaperons"
is a waste of time and effort, not to mention a bad idea.

This particular piece created a lot of chatter in my area. We have almost an entre family in our squadron. The guy has 5 kids in the squadron. 2 Boys and 3 Girls. When he heard about the new rule he started to pull them all out and quit himself. In his opinion CAP doesn't trust him to be with his own kids and can't take care of them. Why would he want to be part of that organization. Fortunate for us his oldest daughter is now a SM and participates. This gentleman is a retired Marine Corps Lt Col, does work for the DOD and is a City Council Member....but in their eyes he doesn't qualify to be with his own kids. It would be a great loss for him and his family and a bigger loss for CAP for him and his family to leave.

The Marine is very narrow minded. People who always boasts their personal resume is suspicious. JMHO But then my motto is In God we trust, all others we investigate