Belittling the USAF

[Dad2-4]

I know that from way back some other service members have put down the USAF as being lazy, unprofessional, coddled, etc.
Maybe this posting is a bit of a rant brought on by my older brother's continued comments. He's not a military veteran, but has 2 sons that were in the Army and Marines. I'm a former USAF Security Policeman from the Cold War era. His view is that the USAF is just a bunch of wanna-bes, while the Army and Marines are the "real" military. He also holds a dim view of CAP although he knows almost nothing about us.
Any suggestions, articles, etc that you think might be helpful?
(end of rant)

[PHall]

You're not gonna change this guy's opinion. So save yourself some frustration and don't even try.

[coudano]

google search for "the old corps"

[bosshawk]

Or old corpse.

I happen to have served in the Army for slightly more than 30 years, but I still have high regards for the AF.

[NIN]

google search for "the old corps"

^^ This.

A) Someone who was never in the military has little or no idea what it is about. I have friends and family members who are in law enforcement.  Does not make me an expert on being a cop. Bottom line, no.

B) My son goes to Catholic school.  Does that make me an expert on Catholicism?  Negative, Ghostrider.

C) There is a fair amount of ribbing that goes on between services. I hassle my Marine buddies, I give crap to my AF pals, and I utterly loathe you Navy pukes.  And I lay a little pity in front of the Puddle Pirates, just cuz they get left out all the time.  But let me tell you: Someone from outside the fraternity decides to pick on my brother in the crackerjack suit? Its on like DONKEY KONG, baby!

D) There is a psychological component to the whole "my experience is better than your experience." The so-called "old Corps" joke.  But since he didn't serve, I'm not 100% sure where he's getting his "Old Corps"-ness from.

(the short version:  The very first Marine recruiter was the manager of the Tun Tavern in Philadelphia.  One fine day in November 1775, he's recruiting Marines by using the old "Sign up now, and you'll get a mug of beer" trick (apparently, 240 years of tradition is not lost on the Marine Corps..)  So one guy signs up, and he sends the fellow to the bar to enjoy his mug. The next recruit, a lad somewhat the junior of the first guy, takes more convincing and cajoling, and eventually Mr. Mullan promises him two mugs of ale for his enlistment.  Delighted in his good fortune, the lad settles into the bar next to the first guy, a mug in each hand, and proclaims "I think this Marine Corps thing is SWELL!"   The first guy shakes his head and mutters "I  liked the Old Corps better...")

[Devil Doc]

I have nothing against any branch of service.  I was NAVY served with the MARINES, Medevaced by the ARMY, Taken care of by the Air Force, I tell you what them AF Medics Chicks were hot, and not just Iraq Hot. Also, i have worked with the CG, there a great asset also. The whole which branch is better has been a battle for ages.

[rframe]

Any suggestions, articles, etc that you think might be helpful?

Why do you care what he thinks?  Stuff like this is so stupid "my team is better than your team".... sure buddy, whatever.  Put your concerns and efforts into something that actually matters in this life.

[a2capt]

Vintage Ken L Ration Commercial - Dog Contest

[Stonewall]

I'm prior Army and current Air Guard.  I have an opinion, just like your older brother, and regardless of what my opinion is, shouldn't matter, nor should your brother's.

Having served in both branches and deployed with both branches, I will say this: I thought the Army was messed up in some ways and disagreed with some things. But at the end of the day I genuinely looked up to my leaders (NCO & Officer), and felt like they had my best interests at heart, even though the job often sucked.  After 6 years in the Air Guard, I have little respect for my leadership as I don't consider them leaders like I did in the Army.  I also don't feel that they have my best interest at heart.  So yeah, in my opinion, based on my experiences, I'd rather be back in the Army.  Unfortunately, I'm beyond the point of being able to revert back.

That said, I know someone who is former AF and current Army, and he seems to have the complete opposite opinion of mine.  BTW, he too is a former cadet and current SM.  Perhaps it has to do with how/where you were raised in the military.

[a2capt]

He's just stonewalling your argument .. don't mind him

[Private Investigator]

You're not gonna change this guy's opinion. So save yourself some frustration and don't even try.

+1

You might as well as him who has a better truck, Chevy or Toyota   

[cap235629]

You're not gonna change this guy's opinion. So save yourself some frustration and don't even try.

+1

You might as well as him who has a better truck, Chevy or Toyota   

Ford and Dodge

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Coke or Pepsi.

I always tell those who belittle the AF to go down to their friendly AFB, ARB or ANGB and find an E-9 CMSgt and tell it to him/her.

Or, if they're in proximity to Lackland, go find a Blue Rope MTI and tell it to him/her.

Having said that, the first time my Army vet dad saw me in my blues he said, "I never thought I would end up raising a son to be a bus driver!).  Nonetheless, he was proud.

I think stuff like that was what Canada tried to eliminate when they unified their forces into a single service with a single green uniform and rank structure in 1968.   It didn't work, because infantry/armour, naval personnel and air personnel still all gravitated toward each other.

There has always been (semi)friendly joking between the services.

My mother lived in Norfolk, Virginia for a while back in the 1950s.  She said some of the local eateries had signs saying "NO DOGS OR SOLDIERS ALLOWED."

The British Royal Navy calls members of the Royal Air Force "crabs" (think about it).

One joke I heard from an Army recruiter:

Q: What's the difference between a platoon of Marines and a troop of Boy Scouts?
A: The Scouts have adult supervision.

I had family members who served in all the services (active and National Guard) except the Coast Guard, so I learnt healthy respect for all of them.  I learnt my respect for the CG during several years as an Auxiliarist.

When someone holds a "dim view" of something they don't have any knowledge of, I direct them to Steve Martin's "Grandma's Song" from the Let's Get Small album:

"Criticise things you don't know about; GO INTO A CLOSET AND SUCK EGGS!"

[Garibaldi]

Sometimes inter-service rivalry goes a bit too far. I've heard the AF called "air scouts", MARINE=muscles are required, intelligence not essential, etc. etc. Is it healthy? Dunno.

[Private Investigator]

You're not gonna change this guy's opinion. So save yourself some frustration and don't even try.

+1

You might as well as him who has a better truck, Chevy or Toyota   

Ford and Dodge

1965 Chevy truck on my first date 

[SarDragon]

Sometimes inter-service rivalry goes a bit too far. I've heard the AF called "air scouts", MARINE=muscles are required, intelligence not essential, etc. etc. Is it healthy? Dunno.

Meh. My father-in-law is a retired Marine colonel. He has laughed at every Marine joke I've thrown at him, and has thrown some zinger Navy jokes back at me.

Much of the inter-service rivalry I've been involved in has been done with a lot of respect in the background. After all, we're all on the same team.

[lordmonar]

I know that from way back some other service members have put down the USAF as being lazy, unprofessional, coddled, etc.
Maybe this posting is a bit of a rant brought on by my older brother's continued comments. He's not a military veteran, but has 2 sons that were in the Army and Marines. I'm a former USAF Security Policeman from the Cold War era. His view is that the USAF is just a bunch of wanna-bes, while the Army and Marines are the "real" military. He also holds a dim view of CAP although he knows almost nothing about us.
Any suggestions, articles, etc that you think might be helpful?
(end of rant)

They are just haters because they picked services with not sense of humor and no sense of keeping their people happy.

If it makes them feel better that us USAF wing-dings are wanna-be loosers.....okay.  Suckers. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

I always noticed that it was "future soldier/marine/sailor/airman", or cadets (CAP, JROTC, ROTC, etc), or REALLY young and fresh troops that talk nonsense. When you get into the older ages, past the mid 20s, most Soldiers/Marines/Sailors/Airmen I've met have cracked jokes about other services, but always followed up by praise as well.

[PHall]

I always noticed that it was "future soldier/marine/sailor/airman", or cadets (CAP, JROTC, ROTC, etc), or REALLY young and fresh troops that talk nonsense. When you get into the older ages, past the mid 20s, most Soldiers/Marines/Sailors/Airmen I've met have cracked jokes about other services, but always followed up by praise as well.

Basic training opens your eyes to many, many things.

And your first deployment completes the job!

[Devil Doc]

Yep, the "BOOTS" or "SHOWERSHOE" what we called them, there all Gung Ho about there branch of service which is fine. Once you go on a deployment, and you are working with all the branches you start to appreciate them. Like it is stated "Someone has to do the Job" you never know what branch of service someone is in when needing help. You think ARMY and MARINES complain one bit, when another branch helps them, heck no, it means they may get an extra few hours of sleep.

[SamFranklin]

Regardless of what someone's personal opinion is about the Air Force being not gung-ho enough or whatever, the fact remains that the U.S. Air Force is the only organization that can strike any target, anywhere on earth, at any time. Airpower can accomplish more than the surface forces, and that's something the Air Force should be proud of.

[Bobble]

When you think about though, there is some basis for the ragging between service members, both former and current.  The Air Force and Navy are both more technically oriented (a sweeping generalization perhaps, but at least IMHO and experience [USN and ARNG]) and for the most part guarantee three hots and a cot during time served.  OTOH, the Army and Marine Corps are out there to put boots on the ground and point the muzzles of small arms at the enemy.  Nothing wrong (and everything right) with that of course, but the perception exists that the Army and Marine Corps as a result are viewed as the 'tougher' sevices physically speaking (speaking in general , again), while the Air Force ('Chair Force'?) and Navy less so.  Again, there are certainly exceptions such as the SEAL and PJ programs. And the distinction between the services is probably less so as a result of the the "Sand Sailor" programs and such that have been instituted by DoD in the last ten years.

But think about it, if you were to enlist, which branch of service would you pick (and pick you can, since we haven't had a draft for 35 odd years)?  What are the chances that you'll be able to acquire a skill or skills that are transferable and valuable to the civilian job market should you decide that 20 years is not for you?  You would probably, after giving it a bit of thought, pick the service that is more technical in nature (see any job listings for Bradley or Stryker drivers lately?).  And maybe, just maybe, you'd want a higher probability that you'll be spending your nights sleeping on a coffin locker rack with a foam mattress instead of a hole in the ground.  Unless of course you have your heart set on wearing a CIB/CAB in your local Veteran's Day parade 25 years down the road.  So a lot of the inter-service rivalry/ribbing is about 1) the perceived level of intelligence (or lack thereof) and 2) the physical hardships required of its' members (or former members) for choosing and serving in their branch of service.

YMMV.

[PHall]

I know the Marines were very, very happy to see us when we landed at Mogadishu.
And it wasn't for the pallets of MRE's we brought either.
It was for the two air conditioned, flush toilets in the comfort pallet on the airplane!

[Flying Pig]

Its pretty simple how this works.

If you never served in the US military, its not your place and you are out of line.  (having relatives who served does not put you in this category by default)

If you served, you will acknowledge that we all enjoy a little humorous inter-service rivalry here and there.

Regardless of what category you fall in to, if you take it a serious or make any of it serious, you are an immature child who needs to grow up.   

[Dad2-4]

Out of 5 boys in my family, oldest to youngest:
1. Army MP during Vietnam, served in SHAPE, Belgium. One son currently in Army Intelligence.
2. No military service.
3. ANG medic during Cold War.
4. No Military service. Houston PD 20+ years. (*the one with the attitude) 2 sons prior service.
5. Me. USAF SP during Cold War.

Added into the family mix:
Dad in the USMC in WW II.
Brother in Law in the Army during Vietnam, but not in SE Asia.
Niece's husband currently in Army Intelligence.
Nephew former USMC just prior to current Iraq/Afghanistan engagements.

So being around a rich military history in our family, I'm the only one who was in the AF. My brother won't change, I'm sure, unless one of his grandchildren eventually grow up to join the AF. Whenever anyone challenges his lack of military service he throws up his PD service as being almost the same and uses his sons' service as if it gives him extra gravitas. I try to avoid military topics with him if at all possible.

[Flying Pig]

I get a kick out of listening to cops who never served in the military compare the two.  It can be quite interesting to hear the logic. I find most of those discussions, if you read between the lines, end up sounding like they are trying to justify why they didnt serve in the military by grasping on to a few similarities.  Guns and rank structure are about the only two things I can find similar. And even that is a far stretch.  I draw that from my 7 years in the infantry and my 15 years as a cop.

[Texas Raiders]

Every branch of the military has roles and specialties that are unique to them and everyone in the military knows that.  Inter-service rivalry has existed for centuries and really doesn't mean anything.  It can be viewed as a demonstration of one's pride in his or her branch.  It's really just ball-busting and can be fun.  Believe me when I say that I'm very familiar with it too.  Hell, I served in the Coast Guard, the red headed step-child of the military services!

[Flying Pig]

Every branch of the military has roles and specialties that are unique to them and everyone in the military knows that.  Inter-service rivalry has existed for centuries and really doesn't mean anything.  It can be viewed as a demonstration of one's pride in his or her branch.  It's really just ball-busting and can be fun.  Believe me when I say that I'm very familiar with it too.  Hell, I served in the Coast Guard, the red headed step-child of the military services!

Red headed step child?  I think I shoved past you guys in the chow hall line a few times just for fun   (That was inter service rivalry for those not familiar with how it works)

[Devil Doc]

Puddle Pirates 

[cap235629]

I get a kick out of listening to cops who never served in the military compare the two.  It can be quite interesting to hear the logic. I find most of those discussions, if you read between the lines, end up sounding like they are trying to justify why they didnt serve in the military by grasping on to a few similarities.  Guns and rank structure are about the only two things I can find similar. And even that is a far stretch.  I draw that from my 7 years in the infantry and my 15 years as a cop.

And isn't it usually the ones who didn't serve who really get into the whole "tacti-kewl robocop" crap.  This from my Army and 12 years as a Cop

[Flying Pig]

Not really that Ive noticed. I think it comes from both sides.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Hell, I served in the Coast Guard, the red headed step-child of the military services!

No, that's CAP!  We're the red-headed step-child of the Air Force!

I was a CG Auxiliarist and one term I heard good-naturedly thrown around was "knee-deep Navy."

[Texas Raiders]

Red headed step child?  I think I shoved past you guys in the chow hall line a few times just for fun   (That was inter service rivalry for those not familiar with how it works)

Exactly!

Puddle Pirates 

Argh!

I was a CG Auxiliarist and one term I heard good-naturedly thrown around was "knee-deep Navy."

That's us! 

Every service has nicknames and jokes for the other services.  The important point to remember is that it's just gool ole fashioned ball-busting fun.  You have to be able to laugh.  I will add something though.  If you didn't serve, you don't get bust any service's stones. 

I can tell you that when my Port Security Unit was deployed to Kuwait during OIF, we sure happy to see the Air Force come to town.  They brought their DFAC with them!  Until then, we had been eating out of DFACs run by the Navy and the Army, which literally sent us looking to MREs for sustenance!  Thanks for the good chow, Air Force! 

Here is a stab at the oathes of enlistment jokingly made by a Marine.  I can only speak for the USCG but, they are pretty accurate, for the most part.  Have fun with it and don't forget to laugh. 


US AIR FORCE OATH OF ENLISTMENT:

"I, (State your name), swear to sign away 4 years of my life to the UNITED STATES AIR FORCE because I know I couldn't hack it in the Army, because the Marines frighten me, and because I am afraid of water over waist-deep if I were to join the Navy or the Coast Guard. I swear to sit behind a desk. I also swear not to do any form of real exercise, but promise to defend our bike-riding test as a valid form of exercise. I promise to walk around calling everyone by their first name because I find it amusing to annoy the other services.

I will have a better quality of life than those around me and will, at all times, be sure to make them aware of that fact. After completion of "Basic Training", I will be a lean, mean, doughnut-eating, Lazy-Boy sitting, civilian-wearing-blue-clothes, Chair-borne Ranger. I will believe I am superior to all others and will make an effort to clean the knife before stabbing the next person in the back. I will annoy those around me, and will go home early every day. So Help Me God!"

X____________________
Signature
____________________
Date


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US ARMY OATH OF ENLISTMENT:

"I, Rambo, swear to sign away 4 years of my mediocre life to the UNITED STATES ARMY because I couldn't score high enough on the ASVAB to get into the Air Force, I'm not tough enough for the Marines, and the Navy won't take me because I can't swim. I will wear camouflage every day and tuck my trousers into my boots because I can't figure out how to use blousing straps. I promise to wear my uniform 24 hours a day even when I have a date.

I will continue to tell myself that I am a fierce killing machine because my Drill Sergeant told me I am, despite the fact that the only action I will see is a court-martial for sexual harassment. I acknowledge the fact that I will make E-8 in my first year of service, and vow to maintain that it is because I scored perfect on my PT test. After completion of my Sexual.....er.....I mean "Basic Training," I will attend a different Army school every other month and return knowing less than I did when I left. On my first trip home after Boot Camp, I will walk around like I am cool and propose to my 9th grade sweetheart. I will make my wife stay home because if I let her out she might leave me for a better-looking Air Force guy. Should she leave me twelve times, I will continue to take her back. While at work I will maintain a look of knowledge while getting absolutely nothing accomplished. I will arrive to work every day at1000 hrs because of morning PT and leave everyday at 1300 to report back to "COMPANY."

I understand that I will undergo no training whatsoever that will help me get a job upon separation, and will end up working construction with my friends from high school. I will brag to everyone about the Army giving me $30,000 for college, but will be unable to use it because I can't pass a placement exam. So Help Me God!"

X_____________________
Signature
_____________________
Date


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US NAVY OATH OF ENLISTMENT:

"I, Top Gun, in lieu of going to prison, swear to sign away 4 years of my life to the UNITED STATES NAVY, because I want to hang out with Marines without actually having to BE one of them, because I thought the Air Force was too "corporate," because I didn't want to actually live in dirt like the Army, and because I thought, "Hey, I like to swim...why not?" I promise to wear clothes that went out of style in 1976 and to have my name stenciled on the butt of every pair of pants I own. I understand that I will be mistaken for the Good Humor Man during summer, and for Nazi Waffen SS during the winter. I will strive to use a different language than the rest of the English speaking world, using words like "deck, bulkhead, cover, geedunk, scuttlebutt, scuttle and head," when I really mean "floor, wall, hat, candy, water fountain, hole in wall and toilet."

I will take great pride in the fact that all Navy acronyms, rank, and insignia, and everything else for that matter, are completely different from the other services and make absolutely no sense whatsoever. I will muster, whatever that is, at 0700 every morning unless I am buddy-buddy with the Chief, in which case I will show up around 0930. I vow to hone my coffee cup-handling skills to the point that I can stand up in a kayak being tossed around in a typhoon, and still not spill a drop. I consent to being promoted and subsequently busted at least twice per fiscal year. I realize that, once selected for Chief, I am required to submit myself to the sick, and quite possibly illegal, whims of my newfound "colleagues." So Help Me Neptune!"

X______________________
Signature
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Date


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U.S. COAST GUARD OATH OF ENLISTMENT:

"I, (State your name), swear to sign away 4 years of my life to the UNITED STATES COAST GUARD because I know being in the real military scares me. However, I swear to defend our position as the fifth branch of the Armed Services, although at one point we were under the Department of Homeland Security. I understand that at least twice a day, someone will refer to me as a member of the Air Force or Navy, and when I correct them, they will question my military status. I will work on boats the size of kayaks and small yachts and that are decorated with a huge orange stripe across the bow of them, during the worst of natures storms, and receive no thanks or notice from the public. I will rarely, if never, EVER, have the opportunity to travel overseas. I will fly in helos into the eye of the storm to rescue people dumber than rocks, and then be heckled by the same people when I bust them for transporting drugs two months later.!

I will come in contact with so many pollutants during my tenure, that I will glow in the dark for the rest of my natural life and refer to myself as "salty" because of it.

I will do my best to work 8 to 3, with a two hour lunch, on normal days, and have my pager and cell phone surgically attached, SO HELP ME GOD. I will prevent thousands of gallons of pollution, but be accused of impeding the economy when I won't allow vessels to pour oil into the ocean. I will be the red-headed step child to all of the other services, although I know I got the better deal. All of my equipment will be discarded Navy property. I will use most of my time in the Coast Guard to take college classes, and perfect my web surfing abilities, then complain that I work too much. I will perfect avoiding PT at all costs, and do my best to attend training that will give me a great competitive edge in the career field of my choice, making retention efforts of the Coast Guard pointless.

X______________________
Signature

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Date


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US MARINE CORPS OATH OF ENLISTMENT:

"I, (pick a name the police won't recognize), swear..uhhhh....high-and-tight.... grunt... cammies....kill....

fix bayonets....charge....slash....dig....burn....

blowup....ugh...Air Force women....beer.....

sailors wives.....air strikes....

SIR yes SIR!....whiskey....liberty call....salute....

Ooorah Gunny....grenades...women....OORAH!

So Help Me Chesty PULLER!"

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[Devil Doc]

That is Hill ARR IOUS. Some of the points are right on.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Oh, for cryin' out loud...my achin' sides!  I haven't had a laugh like this since...

I wouldn't have thought of the one about the Navy winter dress being confused with the Waffen-SS (after all, the SS kit was single-breasted ).

More like along the lines of the local Yacht Club Commodore, maybe...

[lordmonar]

I win......click on the attachment. 

[SarDragon]

Oh, for cryin' out loud...my achin' sides!  I haven't had a laugh like this since...

I wouldn't have thought of the one about the Navy winter dress being confused with the Waffen-SS (after all, the SS kit was single-breasted ).

More like along the lines of the local Yacht Club Commodore, maybe...

Well, some of the Navy uniforms that were mentioned are now in the realm of ancient lore, so the younger folks might not recognize them.

[PHall]

I win......click on the attachment. 

Lordmonar for the win!   

[MisterCD]

I got that beat.

America's Air Force. No One Comes Close.

[SarDragon]

And?

I did all of the same stuff in the Navy. 

[Texas Raiders]

I think everyone in every branch has done most if not all of that.  Nice effort though.   

[LGM30GMCC]

That video was clearly made by USAF personnel. It's a joke about how the operational reality of life in the service is not exactly as action-oriented or glamorous as the recruiting campaigns, including that one, make it out to be.

I wanted to do something similar with the 'It's not science fiction, it's reality' for our career field. However we would change it to 'It's not historical fiction, it's reality' since so many of our systems are 70's-90's era technology.

[J2H]

The new Air Force is the Battle Air Force.  Warrior "Week" is now called BEAST and I believe is a few weeks now of Combat Training.  Security Forces has been humping sand, taking over for the Army, at least since 2007 or 2008... we JUST recently went back to "Air Base Defense" mission priority.  I humped a convoy or two in my day, as well as guarded terrorist EPWs, and worked the main contractor gate (where the ASR went right past us).  I'm not ranting, just saying, we've changed.

[Equinox]

Or old corpse.

I happen to have served in the Army for slightly more than 30 years, but I still have high regards for the AF.

Or "corpsemen" instead of "corpsman!"


It was the president's joke, not mine. 

[PHall]

Or old corpse.

I happen to have served in the Army for slightly more than 30 years, but I still have high regards for the AF.

Or "corpsemen" instead of "corpsman!"


It was the president's joke, not mine. 

Yet you feel the need to post it here.....

[M_Archambault]

I am an AF veteran, CAP and AFA member, father, pastor and a pretty good husband. Each member of the family has a role and responsibility. This guy may be a member of your family, but is not a member of our/your service family. There is no way to explain to someone outside the group what it is really like. Love him for the good in him and let the rest go.

Be blessed