I stumbles across this...thing...a few months ago. Never heard of it before and no one I have talked to about it has either. Nor can I find any information online outside this site:
http://www.usafexplorers.org/index.html (http://www.usafexplorers.org/index.html)
(https://angrytechnician.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/its-a-fake.jpg?w=479&h=232)
Not listed: http://exploring.learningforlife.org/ (http://exploring.learningforlife.org/)
Sounds similar to US Ranger Corps and other niche cadet programs that want to do their own thing because CAP/USNSCC/whatever made them mad.
ST:DS9 reference FTW. 100 bonus points.
100% unathorized by the U.S. Air Force.
A joke and an insult to our good Cadet Corps.
This "colonel" had a falling out about the same time as HWSNBN and the other more uh, unsavory, members.
(Look at the mix of uniforms, good lord it's worse than our worse day)
yeah to me it looks like a case of a faction of Senior Members who spent years of their SM careers trying to remold the CAP cadet program into something it's not, then finally got tired and decided to go off and form their own knockoff.
Quote from: NCRblues on September 06, 2015, 01:57:27 AM
100% unathorized by the U.S. Air Force.
A joke and an insult to our good Cadet Corps.
This "colonel" had a falling out about the same time as HWSNBN and the other more uh, unsavory, members.
(Look at the mix of uniforms, good lord it's worse than our worse day)
HWSNBN?
Their private page is protected with an unencrypted logon screen.
I'm not going to bother investigating that site further as that tells me everything I need to know about their cybersecurity footprint.
Yeah the whole site always looked sketchy to me. Though I did bring this to the attention of YKYICAPW and one member there assured me that this is in fact a real thing and she knows a CAP cadet who is also a USAF Explorer cadet.
Also some of the people on that thread thought the "Colonel" was in fact Antonio J. Pineda under a different name.
Quote from: NCRblues on September 06, 2015, 01:57:27 AM
100% unathorized by the U.S. Air Force.
A joke and an insult to our good Cadet Corps.
Well for being unauthorized according to their "missions" page they have done some pretty cool stuff with the USAF.
No, he isn't Pineda. I knew Cal and flew with him once or twice back in the mid/late 80s when we were in Florida together. He went on to be FLWG/DOS for a while. A quick search indicates that he's still in CAP, in the AZWG Ghost Squadron. I never recalled any odd business with him, for what its worth, although I lost touch 25 years ago.
V/R
Spam
But the resemblance is uncanny and I could totally picture Pineda going off and doing this kind of thing.
Quote from: Brad on September 06, 2015, 01:47:41 AM
(https://angrytechnician.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/its-a-fake.jpg?w=479&h=232)
Not listed: http://exploring.learningforlife.org/ (http://exploring.learningforlife.org/)
They don't actually claim anywhere on the site that they have any direct linkage to BSA/Learning for Life, but they do seem to strongly imply it in their "history" section.
The impression I get is that this program is supposed to be geared more toward those teenagers seeking the intensive military lifestyle, more of a military academy prep curriculum than CAP's cadet program. I still think the program looks rather redundant as long as CAP and AFJRTOC are still around, but at least the more people join that program the less we'll have left in CAP trying to turn CAP's cadet program into that.
Oh and get this, apparently they don't have cadet enlisted grades, only cadet officers. There's a 15 week intensive summer training program and then it's automatic C/2Lt.
There really isn't any further point in beating this horse IMO.
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 06, 2015, 02:02:34 AM
Quote from: NCRblues on September 06, 2015, 01:57:27 AM
100% unathorized by the U.S. Air Force.
A joke and an insult to our good Cadet Corps.
This "colonel" had a falling out about the same time as HWSNBN and the other more uh, unsavory, members.
(Look at the mix of uniforms, good lord it's worse than our worse day)
HWSNBN?
Former National Commander of CAP who was relieved of his position, grade, and membership.
Quote from: MSG Mac on September 06, 2015, 03:21:03 AM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 06, 2015, 02:02:34 AM
HWSNBN?
Former National Commander of CAP who was relieved of his position, grade, and membership.
He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named
The time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end.
Just took a look at the site. Scarred for life. :-X
I find this "colonel's" biography amusing. While he has many significant CAP accomplishments (assuming they're all true), he's written his biography in a way to make himself seem more important than he really is. Heck, his biography is longer that Air Force Chief of Staff Gen Mark Welsh's.
From their FAQ:
Quote
Q. What are the Explorers? Are they the same as CAP, or JROTC?
While similar to CAP and JROTC by youth demeanor only, the USAFX Cadet is a total cadet 24/7 held accountable just as a regular Commissioned Officer of our Armed Forces is during their tenure with the unit.
They neglected to mention that, unlike CAP and JROTC, the United States Air Force Explorers have no association whatsoever with the Air Force or the United States government. Their name is quite misleading.
He's a joke. No real mil experience. Plus their site hadn't been updated in ages.
Officer aircrew wings and a parachutist badge? Nice.
You can get those online. They're not that expensive. >:D
"The USAFX cadet is a total cadet 24/7 held accountable just as a regular Commissioned Officer of our Armed Forces is during their tenure with the unit."
There are so many things wrong with this.
Kinda wanna join
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 06, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
From their FAQ:
Quote
Q. What are the Explorers? Are they the same as CAP, or JROTC?
While similar to CAP and JROTC by youth demeanor only, the USAFX Cadet is a total cadet 24/7 held accountable just as a regular Commissioned Officer of our Armed Forces is during their tenure with the unit.
They neglected to mention that, unlike CAP and JROTC, the United States Air Force Explorers have no association whatsoever with the Air Force or the United States government. Their name is quite misleading.
Well their whole pitch seems to revolve around the idea that their program will improve your chances of selection for one of the service academies. I've never attended one of the service academies but that implication seems dubious at best.
Quote from: Goblin on September 06, 2015, 06:21:44 PM
Kinda wanna join
Congratulations, you have volunteered to be our mole in their organization! Just kidding. I don't think anyone of us would be that cruel to send you in. Thanks for volunteering though!
Wonder what the cadet protection policy looks like [emoji5]️
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 06, 2015, 10:36:50 PM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 06, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
From their FAQ:
Quote
Q. What are the Explorers? Are they the same as CAP, or JROTC?
While similar to CAP and JROTC by youth demeanor only, the USAFX Cadet is a total cadet 24/7 held accountable just as a regular Commissioned Officer of our Armed Forces is during their tenure with the unit.
They neglected to mention that, unlike CAP and JROTC, the United States Air Force Explorers have no association whatsoever with the Air Force or the United States government. Their name is quite misleading.
Well their whole pitch seems to revolve around the idea that their program will improve your chances of selection for one of the service academies. I've never attended one of the service academies but that implication seems dubious at best.
Especially since the person in charge has never served in the military.
Quote from: xray328 on September 07, 2015, 01:08:35 AM
Wonder what the cadet protection policy looks like [emoji5]️
Ummmm. Not even going to go there. Probably resembles a list of suggestions, but no guarentees.
What they do with the Multi-Cam hurts my brain..
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 07, 2015, 01:43:39 AM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 06, 2015, 10:36:50 PM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 06, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
From their FAQ:
Quote
Q. What are the Explorers? Are they the same as CAP, or JROTC?
While similar to CAP and JROTC by youth demeanor only, the USAFX Cadet is a total cadet 24/7 held accountable just as a regular Commissioned Officer of our Armed Forces is during their tenure with the unit.
They neglected to mention that, unlike CAP and JROTC, the United States Air Force Explorers have no association whatsoever with the Air Force or the United States government. Their name is quite misleading.
Well their whole pitch seems to revolve around the idea that their program will improve your chances of selection for one of the service academies. I've never attended one of the service academies but that implication seems dubious at best.
Especially since the person in charge has never served in the military.
So you don't believe his bio.
Quote from: SamuelRosinsky on September 08, 2015, 04:30:04 AM
What they do with the Multi-Cam hurts my brain..
Guess they aren't authorized to wear ABUs being not affiliated with the USAf and all.
Why would a youth organization have anything listed as ISR? What the heck would that guy even do? Spy on the Boy's and Girl's club with RC planes?
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 08, 2015, 04:39:46 AM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 07, 2015, 01:43:39 AM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 06, 2015, 10:36:50 PM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 06, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
From their FAQ:
Quote
Q. What are the Explorers? Are they the same as CAP, or JROTC?
While similar to CAP and JROTC by youth demeanor only, the USAFX Cadet is a total cadet 24/7 held accountable just as a regular Commissioned Officer of our Armed Forces is during their tenure with the unit.
They neglected to mention that, unlike CAP and JROTC, the United States Air Force Explorers have no association whatsoever with the Air Force or the United States government. Their name is quite misleading.
Well their whole pitch seems to revolve around the idea that their program will improve your chances of selection for one of the service academies. I've never attended one of the service academies but that implication seems dubious at best.
Especially since the person in charge has never served in the military.
So you don't believe his bio.
I believe the bio as listed. What seems "fishy" (or otherwise not stated, which may not be appropriate for a "bio" anyway) is what happened between ROTC and..... CAP?
Benign: not everyone who goes ROTC is able to or willing to accept a commission. Injury/illness, better job offer, further education, family emergency, who knows. (I know a few people that took ROTC as a college elective but never went to the military) Worrisome is that was there some other "disqualifying issue" legal trouble, misconduct etc etc. (which is usually the concern with most "military"-esque organizations that aren't a sanctioned military affiliated organization)
MK
Lists a lot of CAP training without mentioning CAP ie National Staff College- Air War College. And under Civic affiliations doesn't list CAP at all.
He also lists Pararescue Orientation Course and I am betting that was the CAP one as well but does not mention that.
Quote from: sarmed1 on September 08, 2015, 03:00:26 PM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 08, 2015, 04:39:46 AM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 07, 2015, 01:43:39 AM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 06, 2015, 10:36:50 PM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 06, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
From their FAQ:
Quote
Q. What are the Explorers? Are they the same as CAP, or JROTC?
While similar to CAP and JROTC by youth demeanor only, the USAFX Cadet is a total cadet 24/7 held accountable just as a regular Commissioned Officer of our Armed Forces is during their tenure with the unit.
They neglected to mention that, unlike CAP and JROTC, the United States Air Force Explorers have no association whatsoever with the Air Force or the United States government. Their name is quite misleading.
Well their whole pitch seems to revolve around the idea that their program will improve your chances of selection for one of the service academies. I've never attended one of the service academies but that implication seems dubious at best.
Especially since the person in charge has never served in the military.
So you don't believe his bio.
I believe the bio as listed. What seems "fishy" (or otherwise not stated, which may not be appropriate for a "bio" anyway) is what happened between ROTC and..... CAP?
Benign: not everyone who goes ROTC is able to or willing to accept a commission. Injury/illness, better job offer, further education, family emergency, who knows. (I know a few people that took ROTC as a college elective but never went to the military) Worrisome is that was there some other "disqualifying issue" legal trouble, misconduct etc etc. (which is usually the concern with most "military"-esque organizations that aren't a sanctioned military affiliated organization)
MK
Well I'm not very good at deciphering military bios but he mentions a lot of military training. Are these all courses that they just let civilians take as well?
Anyway, what I find really hilarious is that the majority of "awards" listed in his bio are "USAF Explorer" organizational awards.
Quote from: Paul_AK on September 08, 2015, 02:45:20 PM
Why would a youth organization have anything listed as ISR? What the heck would that guy even do? Spy on the Boy's and Girl's club with RC planes?
lol I was wondering about that too. Maybe they send drones around to catch illegal immigrant bands since they're down in Arizona and all.
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 08, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: Paul_AK on September 08, 2015, 02:45:20 PM
Why would a youth organization have anything listed as ISR? What the heck would that guy even do? Spy on the Boy's and Girl's club with RC planes?
lol I was wondering about that too. Maybe they send drones around to catch illegal immigrant bands since they're down in Arizona and all.
Well, they do have MultiCams.
Multi-Cam isnt owned by the DOD so it's use isn't as limited. And I highly doubt they are doing and missions for CBP much or even DHS. There is one unit that I have been able to find via web searches and the more I have looked into it the more "shady" they look...
Did the Col ever serve in the military? It doesn't look like he has, but how did he go to airborne school?
I'm not trying to be facetious here, it's a legitimate question. ROTC while in college maybe?
Since this guy is about as hinky as a 3 dollar bill, I wouldnt be too wrapped up about his claims. He awarded himself like 4 decorations per year for crying out loud. Benning should have been no problem for GI Joke....
Quote from: THRAWN on September 09, 2015, 12:37:30 AM
Since this guy is about as hinky as a 3 dollar bill, I wouldnt be too wrapped up about his claims. He awarded himself like 4 decorations per year for crying out loud. Benning should have been no problem for GI Joke....
Agreed. Let it die.
Quote from: Paul_AK on September 08, 2015, 10:29:36 PM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 08, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: Paul_AK on September 08, 2015, 02:45:20 PM
Why would a youth organization have anything listed as ISR? What the heck would that guy even do? Spy on the Boy's and Girl's club with RC planes?
lol I was wondering about that too. Maybe they send drones around to catch illegal immigrant bands since they're down in Arizona and all.
Well, they do have MultiCams.
Quote from: abdsp51 on September 08, 2015, 10:36:52 PM
Multi-Cam isnt owned by the DOD so it's use isn't as limited. And I highly doubt they are doing and missions for CBP much or even DHS.
Just to clarify, in case it didn't come out well, the MultiCam comment was made in jest. Sarcasm is hard to voice over the net.
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 08, 2015, 04:39:46 AM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 07, 2015, 01:43:39 AM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 06, 2015, 10:36:50 PM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 06, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
From their FAQ:
Quote
Q. What are the Explorers? Are they the same as CAP, or JROTC?
While similar to CAP and JROTC by youth demeanor only, the USAFX Cadet is a total cadet 24/7 held accountable just as a regular Commissioned Officer of our Armed Forces is during their tenure with the unit.
They neglected to mention that, unlike CAP and JROTC, the United States Air Force Explorers have no association whatsoever with the Air Force or the United States government. Their name is quite misleading.
Well their whole pitch seems to revolve around the idea that their program will improve your chances of selection for one of the service academies. I've never attended one of the service academies but that implication seems dubious at best.
Especially since the person in charge has never served in the military.
So you don't believe his bio.
While his bio is written in a way that makes all his CAP training and experience seem like he was in the military, it doesn't actually states he served in the military.
Quote from: Col E. Calvin Lowrie's Biography
Colonel Lowrie has led a distinguished career in serving our U.S. Air Forces through the Civil Air Patrol from 1972 until establishment of the U.S. Air Force Explorers in 1999.
http://www.usafexplorers.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/BI0-LOWRIE-Apr2015.pdfLook at his bio closer and you'll see that all his duty assignments prior to the USAFX are CAP duty assignments.
Quote from: Paul_AK on September 09, 2015, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Paul_AK on September 08, 2015, 10:29:36 PM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 08, 2015, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: Paul_AK on September 08, 2015, 02:45:20 PM
Why would a youth organization have anything listed as ISR? What the heck would that guy even do? Spy on the Boy's and Girl's club with RC planes?
lol I was wondering about that too. Maybe they send drones around to catch illegal immigrant bands since they're down in Arizona and all.
Well, they do have MultiCams.
Quote from: abdsp51 on September 08, 2015, 10:36:52 PM
Multi-Cam isnt owned by the DOD so it's use isn't as limited. And I highly doubt they are doing and missions for CBP much or even DHS.
Just to clarify, in case it didn't come out well, the MultiCam comment was made in jest. Sarcasm is hard to voice over the net.
Yes it is.
I foolishly clicked on their website and it was disturbing to say the least... I want my mobile data back.
Quote from: superLt1995 on September 14, 2015, 07:13:10 AM
I foolishly clicked on their website and it was disturbing to say the least... I want my mobile data back.
Yup, waste of time, data, and life.
Quote from: C/Maj Kiss on September 14, 2015, 10:49:18 AM
Quote from: superLt1995 on September 14, 2015, 07:13:10 AM
I foolishly clicked on their website and it was disturbing to say the least... I want my mobile data back.
Yup, waste of time, data, and life.
Just consider it a variation of being "Rick Rolled"!
Looks like a good place to get some snake oil.
We've probably tripled their hit count with this thread.
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on September 10, 2015, 01:39:31 PM
Quote from: Panache on September 06, 2015, 03:28:28 AM
Quote from: MSG Mac on September 06, 2015, 03:21:03 AM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 06, 2015, 02:02:34 AM
HWSNBN?
Former National Commander of CAP who was relieved of his position, grade, and membership.
He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named
(http://i59.tinypic.com/108cpkk.jpg)
[/quote
If I said it once, I've said it a thousand times. Stop using my prom photo.]
Quote from: Garibaldi on September 20, 2015, 12:02:34 AM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on September 10, 2015, 01:39:31 PM
Quote from: Panache on September 06, 2015, 03:28:28 AM
Quote from: MSG Mac on September 06, 2015, 03:21:03 AM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 06, 2015, 02:02:34 AM
HWSNBN?
Former National Commander of CAP who was relieved of his position, grade, and membership.
He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named
(http://i59.tinypic.com/108cpkk.jpg)
If I said it once, I've said it a thousand times. Stop using my prom photo.]
And please learn how to
properly use quote tags! :o I fixed this one for you... The bill is in the mail.
Quote from: C/Maj Kiss on September 14, 2015, 10:49:18 AM
Quote from: superLt1995 on September 14, 2015, 07:13:10 AM
I foolishly clicked on their website and it was disturbing to say the least... I want my mobile data back.
Yup, waste of time, data, and life.
I'll take your word for it. I didn't even look.
Quote from: JacobAnn on September 20, 2015, 11:11:48 AM
Quote from: C/Maj Kiss on September 14, 2015, 10:49:18 AM
Quote from: superLt1995 on September 14, 2015, 07:13:10 AM
I foolishly clicked on their website and it was disturbing to say the least... I want my mobile data back.
Yup, waste of time, data, and life.
I'll take your word for it. I didn't even look.
Good idea.
Um, did you guys even look at their webpage?? Well, I did, and it looks totally legit to me.
I mean, it's not like you can just go around saying you're the national commander and you awarded yourself different medals and stuff. Duh.
Quote from: Nuke52 on September 21, 2015, 09:55:27 PM
Um, did you guys even look at their webpage?? Well, I did, and it looks totally legit to me.
I mean, it's not like you can just go around saying you're the national commander and you awarded yourself different medals and stuff. Duh.
I did, and I refuse to put myself through the torture again. To good to be true. Besides, we would have heard about them if they were legit.
It's funny how he talks about how much of a better opportunity that program is than CAP. But also brags about his CAP awards.
Eh, it just looks like an Explorer Post, nothing more. I was involved with a similar post when I was in college that was Army oriented. The Boy Scouts doesn't prohibit posts like this to exist, but they don't exactly go out of their way to advertise or support either because of the military context. The premise behind them is just to get kids interested in enlisting.
Presumably, the guy in charge is taking his experience from CAP and applying it in a BSA context. Nothing inherently wrong with that. His résumé looks kind of strange, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a fraud.
Quote from: Panzerbjorn on September 22, 2015, 03:19:19 AM
Eh, it just looks like an Explorer Post, nothing more. I was involved with a similar post when I was in college that was Army oriented. The Boy Scouts doesn't prohibit posts like this to exist, but they don't exactly go out of their way to advertise or support either because of the military context. The premise behind them is just to get kids interested in enlisting.
Presumably, the guy in charge is taking his experience from CAP and applying it in a BSA context. Nothing inherently wrong with that. His résumé looks kind of strange, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a fraud.
Well for being "just an Explorer Post", they sure seem to have a lot of access that goes beyond what even a lot of CAP units are able to get. This one explorer post that is in now way officially affiliated with USAF still managed to get base access for their meetings, and, according to their website, have done several training exercises with the Air Force involving USAF aircraft. So either the website is lying, or CAP is missing out on a lot of potential opportunities by its own fault, or this "Colonel" has a lot of friends in high places and connections that not even the CAP BOG or CAP-USAF can get you.
Also, I see what you mean about there being nothing inherently prohibited or wrong with the program (besides redundancy). But what's troubling is this guy has never been in USAF yet he is selling the program as a USAFA prep thing. His vice commander was in USAF but was never commissioned, and his other "command" officers may be USAFA graduates, but there's no way to tell since their bio sheets seem to be inaccessible. At any rate, there's no indication anywhere that they have any type of relationship, formal or otherwise, with USAFA, OCS, or AFROTC to make sure their curriculum and training regiment continues to reflect life in those programs beyond just "the way they did it when I graduated 25 years ago" or "the way I would run USAFA if I was the commander there". If they just want to be an alternative to CAP for those who are more into the intensive military lifestyle, I still say it's redundant but fine, whatever. But when your sales pitch is that it will increase your chances of nomination and selection to one of the service academies, you should be packing a lot more credentials. Frankly I'm surprised the Air Force hasn't noticed them (someone higher up than whoever is letting them use the base) and said to them "hey, if you want to continue being a knockoff of CAP and acting like you're affiliated with us even though you're not, fine. But please stop implying to people that you have any sort of relationship with our officer training and commissioning programs that would lead them to believe you can seriously help them get in in a way that no other program can, or we will be forced to publicly denounce you as a scam. We will not be part of a scheme that deceives teenagers in such a way."
What I see here is a senior member in CAP who tried for years to fight the BS in the regulations (or, more likely, kept trying to remake CAP into something it was never meant to be no matter how much the existing common sense regulations wouldn't let him), got frustrated, decided to go off and form his own CAP after nailing his 95 Theses to the door of NHQ, got some buddy of his who was in the Air Force to let him use the base, recruited some old friends from CAP who probably didn't even show up to meetings anymore, talked some of the cadets in his unit into forming the first generation of cadets in his new cult, realized that just making a clone of CAP but just one where he didn't have to listen to NHQ or CAP-USAF and their regulations would be just like Dailymotion compared to Youtube, so he needed some kind of edge for his program, so he decided to sell it as a USAFA prep program to make it appear like it had something to offer that CAP doesn't. And again, that last bit is what's most troubling. I also can't help but wonder how many of those cadets are teenagers who got kicked out of CAP and JRTOC.
Let it go. The USAF Explorers are not in any way affiliated with nor a threat to CAP. If their cadets and the AF are benefitting from the organization-Good for them. If not, it will fade away.
Well their site says they've been around for 15 years. I guess by your test that means the USAf finds them valuable. Me, I still have my doubts.
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 25, 2015, 07:53:26 AM
Well their site says they've been around for 15 years. I guess by your test that means the USAf finds them valuable. Me, I still have my doubts.
At this point I would just forget about them. They are a non entity as far as we are concerned. This is a CAP forum, and I don't know that we have, or plan to have, any interaction with them. Take anything on their website with a grain of salt and move on.
This is still a conversation? Mods, little help locking this? Please?
Quote from: THRAWN on September 25, 2015, 02:03:51 PM
This is still a conversation? Mods, little help locking this? Please?
Why? What Board rules are being broken? It will die eventually, I hope?
I don't see how this thread is less relevant to CAP than some of the other threads in this board.
There's one on the first page asking people to post their cosplay pics, for example, and that one has a lot of responses with no one calling for it to be locked.
There's a reason I put this thread in the Lobby rather than another board.
It's not that it is less relevant and not that it has broken any of the "rules". There is nothing more to be said about it. The horse is dead. Let's get back to uniforms...
I agree!!!
I was hoping someone with direct experience with the USAF Explorers would respond before this thread died.
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 26, 2015, 02:21:57 AM
I was hoping someone with direct experience with the USAF Explorers would respond before this thread died.
It's been up for three weeks, if they were going to respond or comment, they would have by now.
Thrawn, here is your wish come true.
What uniforms are worn by the "USAF Explorers?" Do they have the same amount? Do they beat their uniform topics to death like happens in here???
>:D
From what I can tell from their photos, their basic uniform is a flight suit. Their cadets also wear BDUs while their adult staff wear multi cams. There's a good chance they don't wear blues. They have some photos of people wearing blues but they appear to be USAFA cadets and people who are actually in the Air Force.
Irregardless their page hadn't been updated in ages by the time I left AZ. I found no affiliation with the AF through sources and doing some other looking around the rest of the so-called explorer posts don't exist.
Nothing in the few pics they have show they are that special or really do much of anything. I am sure we can ask the folks at the service academies for a break down of accepted cadets that have some type of cadet program experience.
If they were that good they would be far more know than what they are.
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 26, 2015, 02:21:57 AM
I was hoping someone with direct experience with the USAF Explorers would respond before this thread died.
Not USAF Explorers, but I do have experience in USA Explorers. They could very well have access to a base and support from their local ANG unit. The Post I was involved with met at a local armory and the National Guard unit recruited heavily from my Post. It most certainly could have a value to a local unit there. Whether it really would increase the chances of getting an appointment to th USAFA, how do you know it doesn't? Not every cadet at the USAFA was CAP. If they have an understanding of what the USAFA is looking for, and can develop youth leaders that fit that mold, that certainly does give them a leg up to obtain an appointment.
The Exporer Posts operate by BSA rules, not USAF. It really does rely on networking with local military types and recruiters as advisors. That in all likelihood is what's going on with this particular post. Before you snicker at their lack of active duty military experience, maybe you should take a look at CAP and see that we are full of members who don't have a DD-214. It doesn't make them less capable of preparing our cadets for careers in aviation or the military.
It's entirely possible that these guys are a complete joke. But I think it's a mistake to off-handedly dismiss them as such just because they're not CAP and doing things that many of our squadrons don't have the capability of doing.
Quote from: Panzerbjorn on September 27, 2015, 05:15:55 AM
Quote from: RepublicofE on September 26, 2015, 02:21:57 AM
I was hoping someone with direct experience with the USAF Explorers would respond before this thread died.
Not USAF Explorers, but I do have experience in USA Explorers. They could very well have access to a base and support from their local ANG unit. The Post I was involved with met at a local armory and the National Guard unit recruited heavily from my Post. It most certainly could have a value to a local unit there. Whether it really would increase the chances of getting an appointment to th USAFA, how do you know it doesn't? Not every cadet at the USAFA was CAP. If they have an understanding of what the USAFA is looking for, and can develop youth leaders that fit that mold, that certainly does give them a leg up to obtain an appointment.
The Exporer Posts operate by BSA rules, not USAF. It really does rely on networking with local military types and recruiters as advisors. That in all likelihood is what's going on with this particular post. Before you snicker at their lack of active duty military experience, maybe you should take a look at CAP and see that we are full of members who don't have a DD-214. It doesn't make them less capable of preparing our cadets for careers in aviation or the military.
It's entirely possible that these guys are a complete joke. But I think it's a mistake to off-handedly dismiss them as such just because they're not CAP and doing things that many of our squadrons don't have the capability of doing.
"Not USAF Explorers, but I do have experience in USA Explorers. They could very well have access to a base and support from their local ANG unit. The Post I was involved with met at a local armory and the National Guard unit recruited heavily from my Post."
Interesting. I've actually found two sites advertising a "US Army Explorers" program. One appears to be just the ACA reincarnated under a different 501(c)3 charter after they disbanded, since after I first looked at their site they have accidentally reverted back to one of the former web designs of the ACA, suggesting they are the same domain. The other has next to no information available but it claims to be part of Learning for Life.
"Whether it really would increase the chances of getting an appointment to th USAFA, how do you know it doesn't? Not every cadet at the USAFA was CAP. If they have an understanding of what the USAFA is looking for, and can develop youth leaders that fit that mold, that certainly does give them a leg up to obtain an appointment."
Look, I understand that a lot of things can increase your chances of getting into one of the service academies. If being the caption of your high school wrestling team can improve your chances, then there is certainly no reason to believe the USAF explorers CANNOT do the same thing for you. But the issue here is just how much it improves your chances compared to how much cadets and their parents are being led to believe it does. I'd have no issue if one of their minor selling points was "oh by the way, this may also help prepare you for the Air Force Academy and may even improve your chances of selection, as several of our cadets have gone on to be accepted into the USAFA" the way CAP does. But it's not just a minor selling point, it's THE selling point for their organization.
"The Exporer Posts operate by BSA rules, not USAF. It really does rely on networking with local military types and recruiters as advisors. That in all likelihood is what's going on with this particular post."
I understand that, but what's throwing me off is all the USAF training missions this one explorer post is claiming to have participated in on its website. Either these things are a lot easier for any organization to get in on and CAP should be ashamed of itself for failing to capitalize on opportunities that one BSA explorer post managed to get, or the commander of the USAF explores must have a lot of friends in high places with influence that not even the CAP BOG or CAP-USAF can get you.
"Before you snicker at their lack of active duty military experience, maybe you should take a look at CAP and see that we are full of members who don't have a DD-214. It doesn't make them less capable of preparing our cadets for careers in aviation or the military."
The difference is CAP doesn't go around selling itself as being mainly a USAFA prep program. Sure, we mention the percentage of USAFA cadets who were in CAP as a minor selling point, but this "USAF Explorers" makes it sound like and does everything to imply short of saying it outright that they've got some kind of special connection to the USAFA that allows them to increase your chances of selection in a way that no other organization can. That's what irks me here. If they want their main selling point to be "we're better than CAP and JROTC at getting people into the USAFA" then their command staff should be mainly people who have served in the Air Force. But even that wouldn't be good enough, they would also need people in regular contact with the USAFA, people to provide a lifeline to make sure their curriculum reflected what doolies would go through at the USAFA. There is nothing on their site to indicate that they have such liaisons.
"But I think it's a mistake to off-handedly dismiss them as such just because they're not CAP and doing things that many of our squadrons don't have the capability of doing."
Hey, if all the stuff they claim to be doing is stuff they are actually doing, then props to them for being able to do it. But again, the issue here is their claim to being a USAFA prep program. Also, while most of our local units couldn't do a lot of the stuff they are doing, CAP as a whole should certainly be able to do it if they can. Based on all the cool stuff they claim to have done, either A. they're lying, B. CAP NHQ isn't doing its job and is allowing CAP to be missing out on a lot of opportunities that should be ours or C. the commander of the USAF Explorers has a lot of mysterious connections that are allowing his organization to do stuff that CAP can't do despite its best efforts.
Hmm....seems the site has been taken down. Wonder if this thread had anything to do with it.
OMG, they're a BSA explorer post sponsored by an Air Guard unit and by all accounts a very successful one. If I had to guess, it was started by CAP members sick and tired of being handcuffed by regulations written by lawyers while the BSA's explorer post rules were basically, "if it involves the hospital, jail or a shotgun wedding don't do it"
There was an Explorer post sponsored by an entire National Guard Engineer Battalion here in KS for many, many years that had about 100 members stretched across various guard armories all over Southeast and East Central Kansas. The post was the best recruiting tool the guard had in the area and the battalion had a fully manned unit for years.
People complain about how "CAP is now run by lawyers" all the time, but I've found that much of these complaints are frivolous. I don't see a lot of people in CAP being "handcuffed" by regs. What I do see is a lot of unnecessary redundancy and ambiguity in the regs. But I'm calling it now, anyone with a complaint about CAP members being outright "handcuffed" by regs needs to cite a specific example of what they would like to do that they are "handcuffed" on. CAP regs do tend to make it unnecessarily difficult to do some beneficial things, but the things that are outright banned are usually banned for a good reason. If you want to do something and you find that the regs absolutely tie your hands on it (not just make you knock on a few more doors than you should have to, I mean categorically forbid it) then chances are either A. it's not practical for a normal CAP unit, B. it violates common sense and shouldn't be done in any volunteer youth organization or C. it falls outside CAP's mission scope and best practices and you need to find yourself another organization if you want to do it.
If that other organization is a USAF themed explorer program, fine, but then that raises the next important question: what was it you were wanting to do all this time that CAP wouldn't let you do, that you exhausted all options in CAP to attempt, and that was so important to you that you wanted to go ahead and do it with or without CAP's help but still closely related to CAP enough that you found you couldn't do it in any other existing organization in the country so you had to make your own little version of CAP?
Running your organization on the notion of "if it involves the hospital, jail or a shotgun wedding don't do it" is a recipe for disaster. The USAF and the ANG don't operate on that principle, so why should your organization that you are trying to get them to sponsor operate on it? Basically, your'e putting your organization in the hands of your notion of common sense and that of your close friends. But what happens when you all leave the organization and the people who take over from you have another idea of common sense. Besides, even with you in charge at the moment, all it takes is one member to decide to push something a little too far because his idea of "better judgement" wasn't quite in line with yours, and you've got a potentially very bad incident on your hands. The court's not going to care that "we trusted him to use his better judgement and we never set an example for him to do that or said it was okay". CAP's official regulations afford it some protection when things do get out of hand because of a stupid member or two, but by deliberately choosing to not have such formalities for your own organization, you are inviting individual members to test their boundaries and create problems, and the fact that you didn't have much in the way of formal regs by deliberate design will be the first thing the plaintiff's attorney seizes on. And even if it isn't something bad enough to land your organization in court, it will at least force your command structure to write a formal rule about that specific thing to prevent further incident, and then viola, you now have regs like CAP.
The site's back up now.
Quote from: RepublicofE on November 16, 2015, 06:58:22 AM
People complain about how "CAP is now run by lawyers" all the time, but I've found that much of these complaints are frivolous. {snipped}
Wrong.
{more snippage}
QuoteRunning your organization on the notion of "if it involves the hospital, jail or a shotgun wedding don't do it" is a recipe for disaster.
You've never been in a BSA Explorer post, have you?
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on November 17, 2015, 02:12:43 AM
Quote from: RepublicofE on November 16, 2015, 06:58:22 AM
People complain about how "CAP is now run by lawyers" all the time, but I've found that much of these complaints are frivolous. {snipped}
Wrong.
Explain?
QuoteRunning your organization on the notion of "if it involves the hospital, jail or a shotgun wedding don't do it" is a recipe for disaster.
You've never been in a BSA Explorer post, have you?
[/quote]
For the record, it has not yet been established on this thread that this is in fact a BSA post. The website only mentions Learning for Life once in passing, and even then only hints that it might have lineage to BSA, but doesn't say for sure and at any rate no where at all does it claim to be a BSA post.
Republic, I am curious. Since you joined this forum at the beginning of the year, you have posted in exactly one thread. This one. That you created. About a group that has nothing to do with CAP. Might i make a suggestion that you forget about this Explorer group and explore the wonderful CAP related arguments found elsewhere on this site? :)
I have actually, I just haven't posted in any of them, but I've looked at other threads. I also read all of Eclipse's post history.
Hey, mods, we need to give this guy the "Too Much Free Time Award" if he's had time to read all 24,869 of Bob's posts. >:D