saluting

[Capt Rivera]

Well if you are going to go to ORM training......each individual will make their own call based on the situation encountered.

RiverJ.....let's get real....we are talking about taking your right hand and touching your right eyebrow for less then 1 second......it takes longer then that to turn on your radio.

If you are that coordination impared....maybe you should not be driving a car at all.

Very mature Captain Harris ... Lets try to stay on topic

Some CAP members should not be driving cars let alone CAP vans. I really don't want those individuals to think they HAVE to or SHOULD salute while driving. They DON'T! Why anyone would this this, I don't know. Please find me a military regulation, guide etc (From any branch) that says it is appropriate for an officer while driving to return a solute.

Unless your driving a flagged or other wise easily identifiable vehicle, indicating that you are an officer, pedestrians are not required to salute you anyway. There is no rule that says they need to try to peer into every vehicle to try to see who is driving it. If they salute you, it is because THEY WANT TO. They don't have any fear of getting in trouble for not doing it. They wont find it disrespectful if you don't return the salute. a nod or wave is adequate...

[stratoflyer]

I think the key here is respect. When I was a cadet officer, I would get saluted by AD NCO's and one time, I was sitting down having lunch and this huge guy came to my table and said, "Hello, Sir, May I sit with you?". I said go on ahead. This guy was talking to me as if I were some super high-ranking officer. He was in civi's by the way. He explained he was a Sgt. in the Army, and I explained I was a CAP cadet. Still, the guy did not drop the "Sir". He was showing me respect, and I returned it likewise by being polite and courteous. No salute here, just words!

The salute is a sign of respect, just as much as calling someone sir. If unpractical to return a salute, there are many other ways to return a show of respect that the saluting person will understand. The name of the game is respect. Whatever you do, never just ignore a salute and/or greeting!!!

[JoeTomasone]

I explained I was a CAP cadet. Still, the guy did not drop the "Sir". He was showing me respect, and I returned it likewise by being polite and courteous. No salute here, just words!

The salute is a sign of respect, just as much as calling someone sir. If unpractical to return a salute, there are many other ways to return a show of respect that the saluting person will understand. The name of the game is respect.

BTW, as a former cadet, my personal policy is to salute C/Col's.    They've earned it in my book.

[MIKE]

BTW, as a former cadet, my personal policy is to salute C/Col's.    They've earned it in my book.

Let's not confuse the issue any further.

[lordmonar]

RiverJ....

the issue here is if someone renders you a salute....you return it if possible.

Normaly, when you are driving, that will only happen in one of two situations...your car is flagged....or when you are going through the gate and the guard salutes you.

In either case you should return the salute if you can.  If you really can't then you shouldn't.....but we should not be saying...."never salute while driving" because that goes against the traditions of the USAF.

90% of our saluting rules stem from custom not regulation.

And once again....if you feels someone should not be driving a CAP vehicle....take away their license.

[davedove]

Normaly, when you are driving, that will only happen in one of two situations...your car is flagged....or when you are going through the gate and the guard salutes you.

Those are the only two situations I can think of right off hand.

Most of us aren't going to be in a flagged vehicle very often, and if we are it's because we're riding with someone with a lot more brass on their shoulder.  The guard is saluting them, not you.

In the other case, your car is going to be stopped anyway, so go ahead and salute.  Since 9-11, I haven't received a "wave through" on any military post, so your vehicle won't be moving through the gate without stopping.  Salute when you're stopped.

[Capt Rivera]

being stopped at the gate is different from being the driver of a MOVING vehicle....

Ill give up on this part of the conversation, people are debating without knowing what they are debating about. I'm glad you guys are passionate, but you should really read carefully so that your positions make sense.  Re read the posts, I never said you should not salute gate guards.

[lordmonar]

I for one am completely confidant that most drivers, at on base driving speeds, can safely return a while still safely operating the vehicle.

[hatentx]

Who salutes a moving car other than one that is flagged?

If your at the Gate and you are saluted your are stopped so no safety issue there.

Helicopter Pilots return the Salute as they are taxing away I would think that worly bird would be alot more dangerous than a car driving at 25 mph and driving with one hand for 3 seconds.  How many people really drive 10 and 2 all of the time to begin with. 

[A.Member]

Well if you are going to go to ORM training......each individual will make their own call based on the situation encountered.

RiverJ.....let's get real....we are talking about taking your right hand and touching your right eyebrow for less then 1 second......it takes longer then that to turn on your radio.

If you are that coordination impared....maybe you should not be driving a car at all.

Very mature Captain Harris ... Lets try to stay on topic

Some CAP members should not be driving cars let alone CAP vans. I really don't want those individuals to think they HAVE to or SHOULD salute while driving. They DON'T! Why anyone would this this, I don't know. Please find me a military regulation, guide etc (From any branch) that says it is appropriate for an officer while driving to return a solute.

Unless your driving a flagged or other wise easily identifiable vehicle, indicating that you are an officer, pedestrians are not required to salute you anyway. There is no rule that says they need to try to peer into every vehicle to try to see who is driving it. If they salute you, it is because THEY WANT TO. They don't have any fear of getting in trouble for not doing it. They wont find it disrespectful if you don't return the salute. a nod or wave is adequate...

You've got to be kidding.  If you really believe this then whenever you drive a vehicle, I expect that both hands will remain on the wheel at all times - no exceptions - ever!

That is just silly. 

Lordmonar is right, just return to the salute.

[A.Member]

I explained I was a CAP cadet. Still, the guy did not drop the "Sir". He was showing me respect, and I returned it likewise by being polite and courteous. No salute here, just words!

The salute is a sign of respect, just as much as calling someone sir. If unpractical to return a salute, there are many other ways to return a show of respect that the saluting person will understand. The name of the game is respect.

BTW, as a former cadet, my personal policy is to salute C/Col's.    They've earned it in my book.

They've earned they rank and should be proud of it but they don't get a salute.

[jb512]

Well if you are going to go to ORM training......each individual will make their own call based on the situation encountered.

RiverJ.....let's get real....we are talking about taking your right hand and touching your right eyebrow for less then 1 second......it takes longer then that to turn on your radio.

If you are that coordination impared....maybe you should not be driving a car at all.

Very mature Captain Harris ... Lets try to stay on topic

Some CAP members should not be driving cars let alone CAP vans. I really don't want those individuals to think they HAVE to or SHOULD salute while driving. They DON'T! Why anyone would this this, I don't know. Please find me a military regulation, guide etc (From any branch) that says it is appropriate for an officer while driving to return a solute.

Unless your driving a flagged or other wise easily identifiable vehicle, indicating that you are an officer, pedestrians are not required to salute you anyway. There is no rule that says they need to try to peer into every vehicle to try to see who is driving it. If they salute you, it is because THEY WANT TO. They don't have any fear of getting in trouble for not doing it. They wont find it disrespectful if you don't return the salute. a nod or wave is adequate...

Yet another reason why we should remove RM officer rank from CAP.

If you are saluted, return the salute.  If you are not prepared to do that, then I would suggest wearing a polo with slacks.

[Capt Rivera]

Yet another reason why we should remove RM officer rank from CAP.

If you are saluted, return the salute.  If you are not prepared to do that, then I would suggest wearing a polo with slacks.

I've been in the RM long enough to know that not every officer will return a salute while driving...  There is no requirement for them to do so nor will they ever be one. In this case they normally nod or wave. (If they see you) As I said, please find a requirement from any branch of the RM and I'll admit defeat on this point.

My only issue is that neither Capt Harris or anyone else should create a requirement for CAP members that does not even exist for RM members.

If a CAP member feels comfortable and won't have an accident, I'm sure they will do what they want. (Since there is no guidance)

Capt Harris should not be saying that CAP members SHOULD or NEED to salute or that it is DISRESPECTFUL for them not to salute while driving. Those are inaccurate statements despite what his feelings are. Although I commend him on his strong since of honor, we need to remember that there are inexperienced members including cadets reading and we should not give them the pressure of a requirement that does not exist. (Don't forget cadets can both drive their POV and CAP vehicles on base.) And yes, cadets do sometimes get saluted by RM.

I could care less what any one individual does, provided they don't end up doing anything that reflects poorly on CAP. I never said I wouldn't return a salute. I said the only time someone is justified in not doing so is while driving a currently moving vehicle and that it would be understood as a safety precaution rather then disrespect.  After Capt Harris and others began to use words such as "should", "need" and "disrespect", I made my argument stronger to show that their implied requirement does not exist.

SUMMARY: There is NO "saluting while driving requirement" of any kind in CAP or the RM.  If someone feels safe to do so, I neither can or should be the stopping force. If CAPNHQ believes there NEEDS to be a restriction, they will implement one in writing. If there is a RM restriction on it, (and there might be) I welcome anyone else to find it. [I'll be honest, I don't have the time or desire to look for it at this time.]

Capt Harris and others..... Do what you feel correct in doing, just don't tell everyone who reads this that they HAVE to, NEED to etc... Maybe they CAN, but they don't HAVE to and should not feel that they HAVE to. Letting them know that they CAN and reminding them that there are not many that share the privilege should be enough. No need to create your own regulation....

[lordmonar]

8.1.1.1. When the salute is rendered to another person, the junior member initiates the salute accompanied with an appropriate verbal greeting, e.g., Good Morning, Sir/Ma'am." Salute and extend the verbal greeting at a distance at which recognition is easy and audible. Offer your salute early enough to allow the senior time to return it and extend a verbal greeting before you pass. All salutes received when in uniform shall be returned; at other times, salutes received shall be appropriately acknowledged.

Emphasis mine.

[ColonelJack]

(shaking head slowly)

The things we find to argue about ...

Carry on.

Jack

[lordmonar]

(shaking head slowly)

The things we find to argue about ...

Carry on.

Jack

Well....it is either this...or we go back to debating boonie hats and berets 

[hatentx]

Who salutes a moving car???  I think if we could answer this question we would find the argument a mute one at that.  Flagged vehicle are the only reason I could see.

[ColonelJack]

Well....it is either this...or we go back to debating boonie hats and berets 

Oh, heck, that's an easy one.  Now, repeat after me ...

"Boonie hats are cool ... berets suck."

There.  Problem solved.



Jack

[jb512]

8.1.1.1. When the salute is rendered to another person, the junior member initiates the salute accompanied with an appropriate verbal greeting, e.g., Good Morning, Sir/Ma'am." Salute and extend the verbal greeting at a distance at which recognition is easy and audible. Offer your salute early enough to allow the senior time to return it and extend a verbal greeting before you pass. All salutes received when in uniform shall be returned; at other times, salutes received shall be appropriately acknowledged.

Emphasis mine.

Emphasis his.  And I'm glad he did the research because I was going to be too lazy to look it up...

[stratoflyer]

Are we clear? Issue settled?


Anything else to argue about...WMIRS anyone?