Need help on supply issues

[AngelWings]

My squadron has many items, many, many items. I am in the process of inspecting, labeling, and inventorying them. I was wondering if anyone could share a few things:

Any suggestions on how to mark items? Is there an official way of doing this?

Could anyone share any forms they've made or that exsist for issuing items?

Along the lines of when we finish setting up these items, I am going to suggest bringing down some materials to make a "cage" so cadets and senior members will store any issued items, besides uniforms, at the base. We were blessed with some really cool but expensive gear that I do not want to see get stolen or "lost". It'd also make things easier to track, and most cadets come to down to the squadron before they head off to any SAREX, school, mission, what have you. Any ideas or suggestions on this?

I am undertaking this project and hoping to find a few items that could be sold for the squadron. What'd be the best route to do this, as in a medium to sell them? A yard sale, evilBay, forums, craigslist, local surplus stores, etc.? The more money, the more we can use to purchase items to supplement our current operations, both our ES team and our new Aviation team (my squadron got a new plane a short while back).

Thank you in advance for any help.

[Eclipse]

I am undertaking this project and hoping to find a few items that could be sold for the squadron. What'd be the best route to do this, as in a medium to sell them? A yard sale, evilBay, forums, craigslist, local surplus stores, etc.? The more money, the more we can use to purchase items to supplement our current operations, both our ES team and our new Aviation team (my squadron got a new plane a short while back).

Better have your commander, logistics officer, and the wing CC have a phone call. 

Property of any kind cannot be accepted by a unit, it has to be accepted by the Wing CC, and it cannot just be sold on eBay.  Most items which are "cool but expensive" have to be inventoried on the unit's S-3. 

Don't play games with this.  I have had direct involvement with people who were well-intentioned and had a huge hassle because they did not follow the regs.  CAP-USAF gets upset when a broken typewriter that was incorrectly marked FOB is not DRMO'ed.  Imagine the apoplexy regarding accepting donated equipment and selling it.

[RogueLeader]

Not to mention Legal trouble.  Logistics is one of the few areas that can lead to jail time.  Ask for help with your LG and Supply Officer.

[AngelWings]

Thank you for that, but it was purchased. We knew all about that and offered money for the items, and were able to purchase them at a really low rate. Is there a regulation against a unit purchasing their own items?

[AngelWings]

Not to mention Legal trouble.  Logistics is one of the few areas that can lead to jail time.  Ask for help with your LG and Supply Officer.

They've given me the go ahead to organize the items due to the fact one is on TDY and the other is not able to show up outside of regular meetings. They asked for help on it due to the fact of their absence and I stepped up to the plate to help them out.

[RogueLeader]

I'm not saying that you can't do it.  I'm just saying: BE CAREFUL, and don't do anything you can't undo; such as throwing out a pile of unserviceable uniforms without going through the right process.  Its a good thing to step up, and I wish more cadets would.  Somethings just require a bit more care,and that this is one of them.

[AngelWings]

I'm not saying that you can't do it.  I'm just saying: BE CAREFUL, and don't do anything you can't undo; such as throwing out a pile of unserviceable uniforms without going through the right process.

I understand completely.

[Larry Mangum]

Thank you for that, but it was purchased. We knew all about that and offered money for the items, and were able to purchase them at a really low rate. Is there a regulation against a unit purchasing their own items?

One of the reasons, you have to go through logistics, is that while a squadron may have money in a bank account, that money is in fact corporate money and that makes any items bought with it a corporate asset.  Which means the only way it can be disposed is with the approval of a corporate officer. The only corporate officer in the wing is the Wing Commander.

[AngelWings]

Thank you for that, but it was purchased. We knew all about that and offered money for the items, and were able to purchase them at a really low rate. Is there a regulation against a unit purchasing their own items?

One of the reasons, you have to go through logistics, is that while a squadron may have money in a bank account, that money is in fact corporate money and that makes any items bought with it a corporate asset.  Which means the only way it can be disposed is with the approval of a corporate officer. The only corporate officer in the wing is the Wing Commander.

To make sure I am understanding this, we have fundraised, gotten donations written out to our squadron through our hard work, have even chipped in our money (me including) to help acquire this gear, and worked our butts off for years to buy our own items and to stock up on gear we needed, wanted, or could get, but it is all the wings assests? That's somewhat annoying. We're going to share what we don't need with other squadrons from the wing, after we're finished inventorying and organizing the gear, so do we need approval to do that?

[Eclipse]

To make sure I am understanding this, we have fundraised, gotten donations written out to our squadron through our hard work, have even chipped in our money (me including) to help acquire this gear, and worked our butts off for years to buy our own items and to stock up on gear we needed, wanted, or could get, but it is all the wings assests?

No, they are corporate assets - as in owned by CAP, Inc.  Were your unit charter to be retired, etc., the property and unit funds would be moved to the corporation, and that generally means the wing level, because that is the lowest level where there is a sitting corporate officer.

Fund raising needs to be approved by the wing CC, and all money received accounted for within the WBP.  Anything purchased with those funds needs to be approved by the finance committee.  In other words, you can't receive money and spend it directly without it being accounted for.

We're going to share what we don't need with other squadrons from the wing, after we're finished inventorying and organizing the gear, so do we need approval to do that?

Anything above a certain value, and some items below that threshold which are considered "pilfer-able", are required to be inventoried on your S-3.  Your commander can transfer property to other units, but that requires wing action in the movement, and if it was equipment purchased with corporate funds, higher HQ, as well as the unit finance committee may have something to say about that.

The first person who responds with anything that contains the words "booster club" will be subject to an atomic wedgie.

[Garibaldi]

Thank you for that, but it was purchased. We knew all about that and offered money for the items, and were able to purchase them at a really low rate. Is there a regulation against a unit purchasing their own items?

One of the reasons, you have to go through logistics, is that while a squadron may have money in a bank account, that money is in fact corporate money and that makes any items bought with it a corporate asset.  Which means the only way it can be disposed is with the approval of a corporate officer. The only corporate officer in the wing is the Wing Commander.

To make sure I am understanding this, we have fundraised, gotten donations written out to our squadron through our hard work, have even chipped in our money (me including) to help acquire this gear, and worked our butts off for years to buy our own items and to stock up on gear we needed, wanted, or could get, but it is all the wings assests? That's somewhat annoying. We're going to share what we don't need with other squadrons from the wing, after we're finished inventorying and organizing the gear, so do we need approval to do that?

If the donations were made to your unit in CAP's name, and money made at other fundraisers was deposited in your squadron's account, then yes. It's Wing's stuff. Even if you donated a brand-new van to your unit, it would still be Wing's van. I am not completely versed with why this is. I was thinking out lout one day a bunch of years ago about the Lotto and I said that if I won I would donate a bunch of money to my unit and my CC explained that, while that was a noble gesture, that National and Wing could take that money and do what they wished with it. Even dues collected locally could be reallocated to the Wing Commander's new toilet if he wished. Sorry to say that your hard work resulted in this, but look at it like this: rarely has Wing come along and said "Hey, this looks cool. We're going to take it." Even if you are going to spread the wealth of your own free will, Wing still reserves the right to reallocate the stuff itself in whatever way it chooses, which means it could sit in limbo for years before any other unit gets to it. I'm sure there is a regulation that covers reallocation of gear, and it does have to go through the e-services module regarding transfer of equipment. That way, it all gets accounted for in the end.

[RogueLeader]

One way is a loan to a unit.  Say my unit needs use of a computer, but I want to ensure that it stays in my unit.  I loan the computer that has a tag stating: Personal property of Aaron Seng.  I would also have a memo stating that I am letting [insert unit here] use computer [id here] indefinitely, and subject to recall with due notice.  Squadron has a computer that can not be transferred.

[Eclipse]

...if I won I would donate a bunch of money to my unit and my CC explained that, while that was a noble gesture, that National and Wing could take that money and do what they wished with it. Even dues collected locally could be reallocated to the Wing Commander's new...

No, they could not, and this single wives-tale is the source of more angst about donations, both property and money then anything else.

Yes, ultimately all assets belong to the corporation, but that does not mean that a Wing CC can just swoop in and take money or property
from a unit with impunity and no recourse.  This has never, ever, happened in the history of the WBP, and I challenge anyone to produce a situation
where it has that is more than "I heard...".  Even the few cases where a wing does absorb funds, there's always a backstory more complex
then "they done took mah monies!"

Second, a donor is always free to place restrictions on the use of money, including having the recipient return unused funds if the restrictions
become impossible to comply with.  Many units make this mistake when receiving scholarship money.  They receive it as restricted funds, are unable to
spend the money within the narrow lane it is defined, and in some cases go "bankrupt" with 5-figures in WBP because the funds are restricted.

A unit CC can directly accept cash donations up to $5k.  Above that, the donation has to be accepted at the wing level, over $25k is Region, and I'd
have to look up what the NHQ figure is.  Barring a capital project, few units would have a need, or the ability to use, more than $5-10k in a given
year.  Bear in mind the operational budget for most wings is under $100k a year, including ES funding.  The real overhead budget for most wings is
under $25k.

So anyone making a "lotto-level" contribution is naive if they think the average unit CC would be able to even deal with that amount of money
in a reasonable, non-FW&A kind of way, or that the Wing CC (who has to accept the donation), would not at least discuss a better use of some or all of the funds, which usually means large, shared use facilities, encampment or flight academy scholarships, or equipment everyone in the wing can use. 

Capital and building projects are a separate conversation, and are a lot more complicated then a simple "Here's a check, let's raise a barn!".

[AngelWings]

So I emailed my Logistics Officer, and he said the issue is all set. He informed me about how the problem I am looking has been in the works, and that every item is inventoried with the wing already, and he issued an apology for me getting worked up about the whole situation. He emailed me the list of everything, and told me that it is a bit disorganized in our squadron trailor, so any help given to clean up is welcome. He also said, wow, I can't believe you said that on CAPTalk (after I informed him about how I was asking for help online), those people are CRAZY!

Thanks for all of the advice and suggestions, I am sorry for asking and wasting your time, but I did learn a few new things.

[RogueLeader]

Don't worry about it.  If you learned, its not a waste of time.

[Eclipse]

Yes, we're all crazy...

[Larry Mangum]

We can be harsh at times on here, but CAP-Talk also can be an excellent sounding board. There are a lot of members here, who have or are currently serving at the Squadron, Group, Wing, Region, or National level.  Some of us post a lot and even more of us lurk in the background and only post, when something comes along that we feel needs to be addressed. 

[Ned]

[. . .]

Second, a donor is always free to place restrictions on the use of money, including having the recipient return unused funds if the restrictions
become impossible to comply with.  [ . . .]

While theoretically true, the restricted gift has to be accepted as a restricted gift by the corporate officer.  IOW, CAP, Inc. would have to officially accept the gift while acknowledging the donor's restrictions in writing.

As a practical matter, CAP does not do this for precisely the reasons you pointed out - after a few years it becomes difficult to track restricted gifts, and often people at the unit "forget" about the restricted nature of the funds/gift and comingle it (or worse) with unrestricted funds, leading to legal problems.

So, we simply don't accept restricted gifts (with a few exceptions for truly exceptional gifts at the National level.) 

Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer

[Eclipse]

Any suggestions on how to mark items? Is there an official way of doing this?

Just noticed this - your wing should be providing an identification tag for anything in inventory.

[Private Investigator]

AngelWings are you a Senior Member or a Cadet?

When I first became a Squadron Commander I inventoried the Squadron's property. I thought a color tv was a color tv. A year later during an inspection I was asked what happen to the almost new color tv because the color tv we have is 20 plus years old. They thought for sure somebody swapped out the Squadron's new tv for their personal junk tv.

Turns out when the Squadron bought a new tv, with Squadron funds, the following month the HQ building was burglarized and the tv was stolen. A police report was done but after five years nobody remember that a member donate a old tv to replace it.

Logistics and Finance can get you in lots of trouble.

[AngelWings]

AngelWings are you a Senior Member or a Cadet?

When I first became a Squadron Commander I inventoried the Squadron's property. I thought a color tv was a color tv. A year later during an inspection I was asked what happen to the almost new color tv because the color tv we have is 20 plus years old. They thought for sure somebody swapped out the Squadron's new tv for their personal junk tv.

Turns out when the Squadron bought a new tv, with Squadron funds, the following month the HQ building was burglarized and the tv was stolen. A police report was done but after five years nobody remember that a member donate a old tv to replace it.

Logistics and Finance can get you in lots of trouble.

I'm a hard working cadet who likes to offer help to our Seniors. I'd like to let this topic die because the situation itself is solved and I was more worked up than anything.

[Eclipse]

Turns out when the Squadron bought a new tv, with Squadron funds, the following month the HQ building was burglarized and the tv was stolen. A police report was done but after five years nobody remember that a member donate a old tv to replace it.

And you can't just "replace" stuff, even if it is the exact same item.  It has to be reported, an ROS done, and the inventory updated with the replacement entered as a "new" item, even if it's an "old" item.