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Chaplain Promotions

Started by Flying Pig, May 10, 2008, 05:31:44 PM

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Chaplaindon

"No, a chaplain should treat the Lutheran, the Baptist, the Mormon, the Catholic, and the Jew the same - ministering to their needs, not lecturing them on how the chaplain disagrees with their religious views.  You are there to be a chaplain, not a Lutheran - not saying that you are personally violating any of this."

Sadly you are mistaken as to the complete role of a chaplain.

While it is true that in SECULAR settings within CAP (and the USAF and other branches of the armed forces) chaplains are to be nonsectarian. Such is both CAP and DoD regulation. This means that a prayer offered before a dining-in, or at the start of the day during a SAREX or REDCAP must be generic (acceptable to Christian and non-Christian alike) regardless of the faith or beliefs of the chaplain offering it. A Muslim chaplain should (actually must) be able to offer a prayer acceptable to a Christian just a Christian chaplain must be able/willing to pray in a manner inoffensive to a Muslim or Jew or LDS, Hindu, etc.

In fact, everyone involved in CAP should treat everyone with dignity and respect regardless of religious beliefs, ethnicity, age, political affiliation, etc.

All around respect notwithstanding, regarding chaplains being NOT a specific faith-group or denomination, however, this is ONLY true in a secular setting when the chaplain is praying on behalf of CAP, the USAF and the government of the US (which recognizes religious pluralism and freedom).

If the chaplain is in a religious setting, such as a worship service, or leading a Sunday School class (or Bible study) or conducting a daily devotional gathering at an encampment, she/he are free to conduct said service in accordance with her/his denominational or faith practices without fear of external interference by CAP, the USAF or the DoD.

Leading, or participating in a worship service, I am permitted (even expected to be a United Methodist, or Lutheran, or Roman Catholic, or Muslim, Hindu, LDS, Wiccan) ... but in a completely secular setting, I and other chaplains must be nonsectarian, respectful and inclusive of all faiths.

As the Command Chaplain of the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier said on the recent PBS series, "chaplains are defenders of the First Amendment." We ensure religious accommodation.

That having been said, we are NOT EVER constrained, nor should we ever be, from expressing our faith/beliefs and their practices and rites within the confines of a religious service or activity distinct from the day-to-day "secular" ministry of the chaplaincy.

Also, unlike the DoD, CAP chaplains are NOT constrained from becoming operationally qualified in any/all ES specialties per CAPRs. Chaplains can be, and are, mission pilots, ground team leaders, MRO, etc. Until I retired from CAP in Jan 08, I was an Incident Commander, GTL, GTM1, Master Observer, CUL, MRO, etc.

Such is fully within the regulations of CAP. If you disagree with them, however, you can work to change them.  On the other hand, removing these qualified OPERATIONAL personnel who happen to be chaplains too, will reduce the total number of trained and available ES personnel for future missions. That seems irresponsible to me. But then again, what do I know ... I'm just a [retired] chaplain.

Rev. Don Brown, Ch., Lt Col, CAP (Ret.)
Former Deputy Director for CISM at CAP/HQ
Gill Robb Wilson Award # 1660
ACS-Chaplain, VFC, IPFC, DSO, NSO, USCG Auxiliary
AUXOP

DogCollar

Quote from: Gunner C on May 12, 2008, 04:11:43 PM
[
QuoteSir,
I have no knowledge of the proposal from the MER Chaplain.  Can you site that for me?

He's the guy who got his region commander (who was eventually fired) to recommend to the NEC that all region chaplains be promoted to colonel (with Level 5).  He claimed that the military chaplains he was working with were much higher in rank and didn't take him as seriously. 

Quote

I am far from being considered "politically or religiously conservative."  I have little tolerance for anyone with a political or religious agenda outside the parameters outlined in CAPR-265-1 and 265-2.  You state that you think chaplains should be "religiously neutral."  Does that mean that I should remove my Christian insignia from my uniform, because someone might take offense?  Should I deny that I am Lutheran when asked by parent of a cadet who is of another faith, inquiring about the Moral Leadership requirement?

No, a chaplain should treat the Lutheran, the Baptist, the Mormon, the Catholic, and the Jew the same - ministering to their needs, not lecturing them on how the chaplain disagrees with their religious views.  You are there to be a chaplain, not a Lutheran - not saying that you are personally violating any of this.

QuoteI also am confused by what you mean when you say chaplains should stay out of "operational stuff?"  Does that mean that there is no room for a Chaplain in ES?  When I look at the regs governing the Incident Command structure of CAP, there is a slot for a Mission Chaplain.  Wings have gotten dinged in their USAF evaluations for NOT filling that slot in real missions and in exercises.

I'm not refering to the mission chaplain position.  That is necessary (if done correctly).  I'm talking about chaplains leading, for instance, CISM teams.  These are, by definition and regulation, operational teams and, while chaplains may serve on them as chaplains, they are not line officers and do not lead/command.  However, chaplains serve as wing and region CISM officers. 

QuoteSir, I honor and respect your commitment to CAP, but, if your restrictions were the norm, then why in the world would CAP even need chaplains?  I can operate effectively from a position of pluralism, not neutrality.  If chaplains aren't involved in operations, what would you HAVE us do?

Support the operations and the operators.

1.  Where is the proposal that Region Chaplains should be Colonels?  I know the Region Chaplain VERY well, and it would surprise me very much to find that this generated from him.

2.  ANY Chaplain that disrespects another members religious faith (or non-faith) should be 2b'd from the organization, period.  Outside of an airplane disaster and sexual misconduct, that kind of behavior from a chaplain is the most harmful thing that can happen in CAP, in the military, or in a healthcare setting where I work everyday.  I become livid when I see this happening.  It is an abuse of power of the highest order.

3.  I am the CISM officer for my wing.  NO one else wanted the job.  I would be glad to hand it over to someone else if they would step forward.  

4.  What do you mean "support the operations and support the operators?"  I'm personally not very interested in holding hands, singing kumbaya, and giving a prayer for safety.  Give me something with meat...where I can be a full participant, that reflects my skill set, and my specific training (I have more class hours logged in CISM training over the past three years then some CAP pilots have logged in an airplane!)

I will not judge every pilot according to the knucklehead who didn't follow safety protocol and risked his plane and aircrew!  I hope that others will not judge all chaplains according to the behaviors the witness in one or a few.
Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP

Chappie

Coming in a bit late on this thread....but will wholeheartedly concur with the postings of Chaplains Brown and Boldin.  As for chaplains pursuing their professional development, I have been and will continue to be a strong voice encouraging chaplains to particpate in the  PD program and attain their GRW.  After-all, Gill Robb Wilson was a Presbyterian Minister and was instrumental in getting the CAP Chaplain Service established.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

DNall

Quote from: DogCollar on May 12, 2008, 04:49:33 PM
3.  I am the CISM officer for my wing.  NO one else wanted the job.  I would be glad to hand it over to someone else if they would step forward. 

4.  What do you mean "support the operations and support the operators?"  I'm personally not very interested in holding hands, singing kumbaya, and giving a prayer for safety.  Give me something with meat...where I can be a full participant, that reflects my skill set, and my specific training (I have more class hours logged in CISM training over the past three years then some CAP pilots have logged in an airplane!)
I want no part in your disagreement, but these two statements are in conflict. A mission chaplain qual'd in CISM must NOT be in the field as aircrew/GT/etc. They MUST be at base providing support to operators - meaning hand holding or whatever else is appropriate to get the operators back in action &/or not mentally scarred by the event. That's not possible when you are not present.

That said, I absolutely believe a chaplain with experience in the field is going to be much better at providing those services - much like a flight surgeon. I don't however think they need to go chasing off after some excitement in the field when their more important calling is back at base. If they have a qualified replacement to cover the base position, then by all means move to contact. If not then they need to calm down & do their primary job.


DogCollar

Quote from: DNall on May 12, 2008, 06:25:40 PM
Quote from: DogCollar on May 12, 2008, 04:49:33 PM
3.  I am the CISM officer for my wing.  NO one else wanted the job.  I would be glad to hand it over to someone else if they would step forward. 

4.  What do you mean "support the operations and support the operators?"  I'm personally not very interested in holding hands, singing kumbaya, and giving a prayer for safety.  Give me something with meat...where I can be a full participant, that reflects my skill set, and my specific training (I have more class hours logged in CISM training over the past three years then some CAP pilots have logged in an airplane!)
I want no part in your disagreement, but these two statements are in conflict. A mission chaplain qual'd in CISM must NOT be in the field as aircrew/GT/etc. They MUST be at base providing support to operators - meaning hand holding or whatever else is appropriate to get the operators back in action &/or not mentally scarred by the event. That's not possible when you are not present.

That said, I absolutely believe a chaplain with experience in the field is going to be much better at providing those services - much like a flight surgeon. I don't however think they need to go chasing off after some excitement in the field when their more important calling is back at base. If they have a qualified replacement to cover the base position, then by all means move to contact. If not then they need to calm down & do their primary job.



I never said that I was going "to chase excitment in the field!"  You're right mission base is where the Mission Chaplain and CISM are to HQ'd.  There will be occassions when the MC or CISM will need to be "in the field" as situations merit.

I have a rather low opinion of hand holding ;).  I actually think there is great importance to being either the MC of a part of the CIST.  The important thing to remember, that all do not, is to remember to not get in the way of other people doing their job.  It is also important to remember...that goes two ways.  I would ask other people NOT to hinder the Chaplain and/or the CIST from doing their jobs.  There are horror stories!
Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP

Chappie

Quote from: NCO forever on May 12, 2008, 02:05:01 PM
If you are going to promote a chaplain to Lt COL I think National should either make a course that would go over the different things they should know in CAP and then give them their grade.

Unfortunately, as of 2007 62% of Chaplains had not progressed in their PD training past Level I.  Taking the AFIADL-13 and completing Level II would go a long ways to the chaplain understanding the organization and culture of CAP.   
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Chaplaindon

"A mission chaplain qual'd in CISM must NOT be in the field as aircrew/GT/etc. They MUST be at base providing support to operators - meaning hand holding or whatever else is appropriate to get the operators back in action &/or not mentally scarred by the event."

Sorry Dennis, you are speaking too broadly.

A mission chaplain (whether CISM qualified or not) MAY be needed at mission base (depending upon the mission and the needs thereof) then again they MAY NOT be.

It depends on far too many variables to speak so dogmatically (remember "flexibility is the key to airpower").

Influential variables such as:

  --The type of mission (remember, for one example, CD is a mission [as are cadet orientation flights], usually w/o a fixed mission base (or sizable mission staff) and NORMATIVELY with little need for chaplaincy or CISM unless something untoward occurs). All is not just large-scale REDCAP SAR/DR.
  --Whether or not there is already a mission chaplain providing support at the mission base or not.
  --Whether there IS even a mission base at all. I've effectively IC'd countless ELT missions from my kitchen table over the years. I used my squadron chaplain as my mission pilot on many of those.
  --Whether there's a CISM On-Scene Support (OSS) person already working the mission (now that CAP's "Interim National Commander has myopically relocated CISM to the oblivion of Health Services, there may NOT be such a role again in the CAP ICS ... as there is in the USCG) and furthermore that person need not be a chaplain. She/he can be a trained CAP senior member with a 101 card annotated for CISM.
  --Whether the IC will allow any CISM support on the mission.
  --Whether the IC will allow/support a mission chaplain on the mission.
  --On large-scale SAR/DR/HLS missions, whether the "geniuses" at 1AF/NORTHCOM (and "yes" I meant to be sarcastic and directly critical of them) will allow any CAP chaplains to deploy to the field in "mission chaplain" roles. They overtly refused to do so for JTF-Katrina in 2005 (we almost didn't get to send in CISM either, thanks to them and the NOC). That's a fact.

While I agree that a chaplain's primary role is to be a chaplain, there are far too many variables and differing circumstances to preclude any blanket "MUST"s regarding their role in all "missions."
Rev. Don Brown, Ch., Lt Col, CAP (Ret.)
Former Deputy Director for CISM at CAP/HQ
Gill Robb Wilson Award # 1660
ACS-Chaplain, VFC, IPFC, DSO, NSO, USCG Auxiliary
AUXOP

DogCollar

Quote from: Chappie on May 12, 2008, 06:56:26 PM
Quote from: NCO forever on May 12, 2008, 02:05:01 PM
If you are going to promote a chaplain to Lt COL I think National should either make a course that would go over the different things they should know in CAP and then give them their grade.

Unfortunately, as of 2007 62% of Chaplains had not progressed in their PD training past Level I.  Taking the AFIADL-13 and completing Level II would go a long ways to the chaplain understanding the organization and culture of CAP.   

While I think professional development is important, I am beginning to see some wisdom in thinking that there should be NO grade given to senior members.  Grade works as it's supposed to in the cadet program, and I would leave their grade structure alone.  But, really, who cares whether a chaplain is 2nd Lt, or Col?  Why does it matter?  Isn't the important thing competancy in doing their job? 
Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP

Chappie

Quote from: DogCollar on May 12, 2008, 07:28:17 PM
Quote from: Chappie on May 12, 2008, 06:56:26 PM
Quote from: NCO forever on May 12, 2008, 02:05:01 PM
If you are going to promote a chaplain to Lt COL I think National should either make a course that would go over the different things they should know in CAP and then give them their grade.

Unfortunately, as of 2007 62% of Chaplains had not progressed in their PD training past Level I.  Taking the AFIADL-13 and completing Level II would go a long ways to the chaplain understanding the organization and culture of CAP.   

While I think professional development is important, I am beginning to see some wisdom in thinking that there should be NO grade given to senior members.  Grade works as it's supposed to in the cadet program, and I would leave their grade structure alone.  But, really, who cares whether a chaplain is 2nd Lt, or Col?  Why does it matter?  Isn't the important thing competancy in doing their job? 

I placed some emphasis on one of your comments and say, "Heresy!!!!"   After all, the silver oak leaves on my collar and $1.75 get me a cup of coffee at my local Denny's every single time  :D :D :D :D  Totally agree with the comment on competancy and will say (from my limited understanding/knowledge) that area is something that is being addressed in the rewrite of the 221 series.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Chaplaindon

Quote from: DogCollar on May 12, 2008, 07:28:17 PM
Quote from: Chappie on May 12, 2008, 06:56:26 PM
Quote from: NCO forever on May 12, 2008, 02:05:01 PM
If you are going to promote a chaplain to Lt COL I think National should either make a course that would go over the different things they should know in CAP and then give them their grade.

Unfortunately, as of 2007 62% of Chaplains had not progressed in their PD training past Level I.  Taking the AFIADL-13 and completing Level II would go a long ways to the chaplain understanding the organization and culture of CAP.   

While I think professional development is important, I am beginning to see some wisdom in thinking that there should be NO grade given to senior members.  Grade works as it's supposed to in the cadet program, and I would leave their grade structure alone.  But, really, who cares whether a chaplain is 2nd Lt, or Col?  Why does it matter?  Isn't the important thing competency in doing their job? 

Initial grade aside, I am concerned that more chaplains do not progress through the PD program. That having been said, I wonder what the overall percentages are for non-chaplain SM's progressing through Level II and beyond (or the percentage with a college degree, let alone an advanced degree, as required for the chaplaincy unlike line officer appointment/promotion). I suspect those numbers aren't real good either.

As one who HAS completed the GRW (#1660) and who served in non-chaplain roles, including squadron commander during my 22+ years of senior membership, I suggest that at least 3 factors MAY be affecting chaplain progression through the SMPDP:

1.  Chaplains who are recruited exclusively to support the cadet program and Moral Leadership under the premise that it's only one meeting a month ... that's all.  They are kept on-ice and only "defrosted" monthly for a scripted ML. No one would be inspired by such an arrangement.

2.  Commanders who don't know how/what to use a chaplain for ... I've actually had CC's say they prefer MLO's because they're easier to work with (and some have admitted they dislike the confidentiality afforded an endorsed chaplain).

3.  Chaplains who are not encouraged to become involved in the operational and ES aspects of CAP. This could be helped by recruiting seminarians and younger clergy ... but they're going to want somewthing more than one meeting a month ... most clergy, I know, are drowning in meetings as it is.

If you look at DoD chaplain recruiting ads, they show paratrooper chaplains, chaplains unloading MEDEVACs at field hospitals or carrier decks, giving communion in BDU/ACUs in the Field and so forth. OPERATIONAL chaplains ... a new and challenging ministry. That inspires.

CAP recruits, if at all, VERY low-key for clergy and spends little effort focusing on the ES/Operations ministry and its vital relationship to the organization and its missions.

Add to that people who denigrate these highly-trained and motivated ministers by suggesting that they are only good for "hand-holding."

IMHO, the reason CAP doesn't have more experienced, Level III, IV, V chaplains and CAPF-101 mission chaplains is that it doesn't value a strong chaplaincy, doesn't recruit for it, and ultimately doesn't expect it (nor would it know what to do with it if it happened)
Rev. Don Brown, Ch., Lt Col, CAP (Ret.)
Former Deputy Director for CISM at CAP/HQ
Gill Robb Wilson Award # 1660
ACS-Chaplain, VFC, IPFC, DSO, NSO, USCG Auxiliary
AUXOP

Chappie

Quote from: Chaplaindon on May 12, 2008, 08:35:01 PM
Quote from: DogCollar on May 12, 2008, 07:28:17 PM
Quote from: Chappie on May 12, 2008, 06:56:26 PM
Quote from: NCO forever on May 12, 2008, 02:05:01 PM
If you are going to promote a chaplain to Lt COL I think National should either make a course that would go over the different things they should know in CAP and then give them their grade.

Unfortunately, as of 2007 62% of Chaplains had not progressed in their PD training past Level I.  Taking the AFIADL-13 and completing Level II would go a long ways to the chaplain understanding the organization and culture of CAP.   

While I think professional development is important, I am beginning to see some wisdom in thinking that there should be NO grade given to senior members.  Grade works as it's supposed to in the cadet program, and I would leave their grade structure alone.  But, really, who cares whether a chaplain is 2nd Lt, or Col?  Why does it matter?  Isn't the important thing competency in doing their job? 

Initial grade aside, I am concerned that more chaplains do not progress through the PD program. That having been said, I wonder what the overall percentages are for non-chaplain SM's progressing through Level II and beyond (or the percentage with a college degree, let alone an advanced degree, as required for the chaplaincy unlike line officer appointment/promotion). I suspect those numbers aren't real good either.

As one who HAS completed the GRW (#1660) and who served in non-chaplain roles, including squadron commander during my 22+ years of senior membership, I suggest that at least 3 factors MAY be affecting chaplain progression through the SMPDP:

1.  Chaplains who are recruited exclusively to support the cadet program and Moral Leadership under the premise that it's only one meeting a month ... that's all.  They are kept on-ice and only "defrosted" monthly for a scripted ML. No one would be inspired by such an arrangement.

2.  Commanders who don't know how/what to use a chaplain for ... I've actually had CC's say they prefer MLO's because they're easier to work with (and some have admitted they dislike the confidentiality afforded an endorsed chaplain).

3.  Chaplains who are not encouraged to become involved in the operational and ES aspects of CAP. This could be helped by recruiting seminarians and younger clergy ... but they're going to want somewthing more than one meeting a month ... most clergy, I know, are drowning in meetings as it is.

If you look at DoD chaplain recruiting ads, they show paratrooper chaplains, chaplains unloading MEDEVACs at field hospitals or carrier decks, giving communion in BDU/ACUs in the Field and so forth. OPERATIONAL chaplains ... a new and challenging ministry. That inspires.

CAP recruits, if at all, VERY low-key for clergy and spends little effort focusing on the ES/Operations ministry and its vital relationship to the organization and its missions.

Add to that people who denigrate these highly-trained and motivated ministers by suggesting that they are only good for "hand-holding."

IMHO, the reason CAP doesn't have more experienced, Level III, IV, V chaplains and CAPF-101 mission chaplains is that it doesn't value a strong chaplaincy, doesn't recruit for it, and ultimately doesn't expect it (nor would it know what to do with it if it happened)

Sharing the hymnal and singing from the same page  ;D    BTW...my GRW is #2095 -- a few NSCs after you.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Chappie

#31
For the couple of posters that inquired privately about my comment regarding Gill Robb Wilson, here is documentation.  At the time this was written, the USAF provided CAP with a National Staff Chaplain.


GILL ROBB WILSON – CAP'S FOUNDER, FIRST CHAPLAIN

Commentary by Chaplain (Lt Col) Kenneth Colton – Chaplain, CAP-USAF
Civil Air Patrol News June 2000

As the Civil Air Patrol Chaplain Service celebrates its 50th anniversary this year, it is interesting to note that one of CAP's founders – Gill Robb Wilson – was a Presbyterian clergyman who became the primary motivator for encouraging the Air Force to organize a chaplain program for CAP.

Air Force Maj. Gen. Lucas V. Beau, the CAP national commander and CAP-U.S. Air Force commander from October 1947 to December 1955, and Brid General D. Harold Byrd, chairman of the CAP Board from April 1959 to April 1960, joined the CAP founder in 1949 when he visited with the Air Force chief of chaplains, Maj. Gen. Charles Carpenter, asking for help in organizing a chaplain program.

A few months later, in January 1950, Chaplain (Lt. Col.) Robert Preston Taylor was appointed as the first national chaplain to CAP National Headquarters with a mandate to develop a professional model for ministry that resembled the Air Force's.

Wilson was raised by his parents to be concerned about a person's spiritual growth.  His father, Dr. Gill I. Wilson, as well as his mother, the Rev. Amanda Robb Wilson, were both ministers.

In 1906, the Wilson family moved from Butler County, Pa., to Sisterville, W.V., a town built on the oil industry.  Wilson's father was a 6-foot 2-inch, 220 pound pastor who earned the title of  "Fighting Parson," as he visited town members in the saloons and drilling fields.

As a young man, Wilson moved to Weirton, W.V., to begin one of the town's first churches.  The Weirton people proved to be great supporters of him.

It is reported that Wilson sold ice cream and hot coffee, as an antidote to moonshine liquor, to the homeless who ended up sleeping on cots in the basement of the new church.

In 1916, Wilson dropped out of a seminary in Pittsburgh to join the French air service.  He later was commissioned in the American Army Air Corps.

After suffering injuries when his plane crashed during the war, Mr. Wilson returned to seminary in 1919 and became his father's assistant in Parkersburg, W.V.

He moved to Trenton, N.J., in 1921 where he became pastor of the Fourth Presbyterian Church.  In 1928, Mr. Wilson became the first person, who was not a former army chaplain, to become the nation chaplain of the American Legion.

Mr. Wilson always had a love of aviation, and from 1930 to 1945 he was New Jersey's director of aviation.  Later he served as a correspondent for the New York Herald Tribune during World War II.

Mr. Wilson was a close friend of Gen. Billy Mitchell and helped develop a civilian pilot training program in World War II.

As both a minister and founder of CAP, no one can dispute the Gill Robb Wilson was CAP's first "chaplain."  Today, there is no doubt that Mr. Wilson would be proud to see how his concern for a CAP chaplain program has developed into a chaplain service consisting of 660 chaplains and 125 moral leadership officers.

* * * *

On another note, check out the bio of Chaplain (Maj Gen) Robert Preston Taylor, the first National Staff Chaplain:

http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=7354


Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

chaplainconnolly

The chaplain has the same requirements as any other seniopr member, the exception is he has to complete CAPP221 and CAPP 221A and when the 221B is avialible instead of SLS and CLC/

Cecil DP

Quote from: NCO forever on May 12, 2008, 02:05:01 PM
If you are going to promote a chaplain to Lt COL I think National should either make a course that would go over the different things they should know in CAP and then give them their grade.

There is it's called Chaplains Region Staff College, and they have to go twice in order to get credit for the same type of course regular members only have to attend once. If you've attended or when you do attend National Staff College, you'll find that a good percentage of the class are chaplains. Usually about 10%, so chaplains when we get them are more active than most of our members.
Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85

Sleepwalker


 
   I think it is fine to promote Chaplains based upon their education, but they should go to SLS to know the basics about CAP.  Chaplains are mostly outside of the Chain-of-Command (by design) so they really are different from the rest of us. 

  Occasionally I have personally had higher-ranking Chaplains at CAP functions who were trying to order me (and others) around because they saw something they didn't like (they had no idea what was really going on).  We get caught in the middle because they are not suppose to be issuing orders, yet we didn't want to be insubordinate to a higher-ranking officer.  These situations usually happen when our 'bosses' are not around to stop this situation and let them know to keep out of our 'business' and to leave us alone to do our jobs.  In defence of these Chaplains, they really do believe they are doing the right thing by interfering, but they were ignorant of our jobs, situation, and our chain-of-command.  Perhaps going to some of the CAP courses that the rest of us must attend would help them understand the organization better.   

    (Side note - Our  current Wing Commander is the former Wing Chaplain, but I don't know if he had to get 'trained up' like the rest of us.  All I know is that he is doing a great job.)

   Special promotions?  I have seen nothing but great things from the former military officers who 'transferred' their rank to CAP.  I only wish something better could be done to get Navy officer ranks recognized.  We have a great former Navy Lt Commander who is a second Lt in our Squadron.

  As for me, when I joined I could have been immediatly promoted to Captain (I believe) because I have an Aircraft Inspector license.  I choose to become a regular Senior Member and work my way up the regular way because I wanted to become familiar with CAP.  I didn't feel right if I had higher grade than others yet didn't know what was going on.  That was only my personal situation and I don't think any less of anyone who does not go that route, and takes the early appointment. 
     
A Thiarna, déan trócaire

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Sleepwalker on September 10, 2008, 12:33:27 PM
Special promotions?  I have seen nothing but great things from the former military officers who 'transferred' their rank to CAP.  I only wish something better could be done to get Navy officer ranks recognized.  We have a great former Navy Lt Commander who is a second Lt in our Squadron.

As far as CAP is concerned O-4 from anywhere (Army, AF, Navy, CG, US Health Service) counts. The promotion is not automatic, but your Lt Commander could be a CAP Major

DogCollar

I can't believe that this thread got resurrected!!!  Chaplains do have some different standards than other tracks.  I wouldn't say it is easier, or harder...just...different.  That being said, a chaplain that just does what is required in the chaplaincy track is really doing him/herself a disservice in my opinion.  I have taken SLS and AFIADL 13 in addition to what is required in the Chaplains track.  I have also gone to two consecutive Chaplain Service Staff Colleges.  When I take CLC (and I hope to do that soon) I will have all that's required of professional development Level III.  This has helped me (I think...I hope) gain some extra credibility with both the seniors and cadets that I work with...all high achievers.

As far as Chaplains and the chain of command...that chaplains stand outside the chain of command is a misunderstanding.  Actually we have a duel command structure.  We are accountable to the commanding officer of the unit we relate too, AND we are accountable to supervisory chaplains as well (Wing and Region Chaplains, etc...).  Yes, the above poster is correct.  We don't have the authority of command, but we definitely do not fall outside the command structure.

In my opinion, ALL CAP Chaplains should strongly consider the following training:

1.  Meeting the requirements of Specialty Track 221, 221A and 221B(when developed)
2.  Take both Squadron Leadership School and Corporate Leadership School.
3.  Attend Chaplain Service Staff Colleges.
4.  Take AFIADL 13.
5.  Achieve Mission Chaplain rating
6.  If possible...achieve another rating (i.e. GTM, Mission Observer, Radio Operator, etc...)
7.  If possible...take Group Crisis Intervention in CISM.  It's good to be familiar with CISM even if you don't serve on a CISM team.
8.  If possible...attend Summer Encampment as a chaplain, even for a day!

Some of these things I have done, and others I am working on.  It has been well worth the time and effort.
Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Chaplain Boldin, will you please step into this cloning machine over here...

DogCollar

Quote from: phirons on September 10, 2008, 07:26:31 PM
Chaplain Boldin, will you please step into this cloning machine over here...

Thank you for the kind remark.  Just remember, I haven't achieved all the stuff I've listed!!!  But, it is my intention to next achieve level III as well as to become rated as a ground team member.
Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP

RiverAux

I believe that the NB just voted to add SLS and CLC to the Chaplain promotion requirements in appropriate places....