punishment

[cadet zimmerman]

my cadets are misbehaving and I don't know how to solve it i can't make them rin or do pushups os sit ups
what can I do???

c/a kyle s. zimmerman
cadet commander PCR-CA-476
U.S. civil air patrol
"fly high in the sky never let opportunities pass me by"

[JayT]

my cadets are misbehaving and I don't know how to solve it i can't make them rin or do pushups os sit ups
what can I do???

c/a kyle s. zimmerman
cadet commander PCR-CA-476
U.S. civil air patrol
"fly high in the sky never let opportunities pass me by"

Let's start with some addition to detail on your pair.

My cadets are misbehaving and I don't know how to solve it if I can't make them run or do pushups or sit ups. What can I do?

C/Amn Kyle S. Zimmerman, CAP
Cadet Commander PCR-CA-476

First, how old are you? How many cadets in your unit? What's the spread of rank? IE, How many Cadet Airmen types, Cadet JNCOs, SNCOS, and Cadet Officers? How many Senior Memebers?

What do you define as misbehaving?

[cadet zimmerman]

im 14 they are all c/ab
and they wont listen talking back and making jokes in formation and flight

[JayT]

im 14 they are all c/ab
and they wont listen talking back and making jokes in formation and flight

So it's a new squadron I take it?

[cadet zimmerman]

yes

[JayT]

yes

How many Senior Members are assigned?

[lordmonar]

Here is one of those situations where we DON'T USE the "cadet run program" model.

Go to your commander and ask for help.

[stillamarine]

my cadets are misbehaving and I don't know how to solve it i can't make them rin or do pushups os sit ups
what can I do???

c/a kyle s. zimmerman
cadet commander PCR-CA-476
U.S. civil air patrol
"fly high in the sky never let opportunities pass me by"

Let's start with some addition to detail on your pair.

My cadets are misbehaving and I don't know how to solve it if I can't make them run or do pushups or sit ups. What can I do?

C/Amn Kyle S. Zimmerman, CAP
Cadet Commander PCR-CA-476

First, how old are you? How many cadets in your unit? What's the spread of rank? IE, How many Cadet Airmen types, Cadet JNCOs, SNCOS, and Cadet Officers? How many Senior Memebers?

What do you define as misbehaving?

And now your turn 

[mikeylikey]

^ Ouch   

[JayT]

^ Ouch   

Ouch....my pride......

[jimmydeanno]

my cadets are misbehaving and I don't know how to solve it i can't make them rin or do pushups os sit ups
what can I do???

c/a kyle s. zimmerman
cadet commander PCR-CA-476
U.S. civil air patrol
"fly high in the sky never let opportunities pass me by"

C/Amn Zimmerman,

First, welcome to CAP I hope that your first few months have been rewarding.  I also hope that you take your role as a C/Amn seriously and continue to progress in the program.

The suggestion that I am about to make really has nothing to do with how to 'punish' your cadets, but something that may be useful to you.

Since you are the 'Cadet Commander' of your unit you really should read the newly released Cadet Staff Handbook (CAPP 52-15 Cadet Staff Handbook Link).  In it you will find helpful hints and tips on how to set up a cadet staff for a squadron like yours.

I am going to be completely honest with you - as a C/Amn you should NOT be the cadet commander of your unit.  Not because of anything you've done personally, but because it is not appropriate for someone of your rank to be in that position.  There are far more important things that you need to work on before assuming that level of responsibility. 

One of the problems that you may be having with the discipline in your unit might stem from this very situation.  In reality you are no different than those you are in 'command' of and they may be having a terrible time differentiating.  As a C/Amn there really isn't much difference in the skills, abilities and knowledge you possess as compared to your C/AB counterparts.

My recommendation to you would be to suggest to your senior staff that you be put in a different position, like Element Leader, where you can gain the leadership knowledge and experience you'll need when you get to be higher rank.  Once you have developed those skills and have earned your Earhart Award, then I'd try to become the Cadet Commander, I think you'll find it far more rewarding.

At this point, I would suggest you have your senior staff look at the pamphlet linked above and ask them to take on a more hands on approach.  As you guys progress, they will (hopefully) back off slowly and allow you and your cadets to assume more responsibility and take on a more hands off approach.

I applaud you for trying to take on such a responsibility and appreciate that you are trying hard to make things better for your unit, you have the marks of someone with leadership potential. Good Luck.

[cadet zimmerman]

ok i am the highest grade i did start as a element leader someone needs to lead the 1 flight and i took that position because i am the one with the highest grade

[JayT]

ok i am the highest grade i did start as a element leader someone needs to lead the 1 flight and i took that position because i am the one with the highest grade

It doesn't matter. Your senior leadership shouldn't and doesn't need to appoint a 'Cadet Commander.' You should still be an element leader.

[wacapgh]

Also, have your senior leaders (Squadron Commander or Deputy Commander for Cadets) contact any nearby squadrons.  The other units may have an experienced Cadet NCO or Officer (or both) they might be willing to "loan" your squadron for a few months while you get up to speed.

[DC]

Your cadets need to get with the program. I would highly encourage you to seek the help of other nearby squadrons, they may be able to provide cadet officers and NCOs that can teach you and your cadets the proper way to do things. Read CAPR 52-16 and follow it.

Also, as others have mentioned, you are a C/Amn, and need to focus on your own development more than running the squadron. Are you in a composite or cadet squadron? Being in a totally bottom heavy squadron (no NCOs or officers) your Senior Members should step in and take on those jobs until you have enough cadets to fill them. As an C/Airman it is not your job to 'discipline' your cadets, but to encourage them and help them along.

Something else to check out - CAPP 52-15 Cadet Staff Handbook, it's really helpful.

C/CMSgt Dillon Clancy
Cadet Deputy Commander

[Kal]

my cadets are misbehaving and I don't know how to solve it i can't make them rin or do pushups os sit ups

Our 1st sgt found that not true.  Push-ups, sit-ups and the like are ok if the staff is doing it with the cadets.  I'm not actually sure this is true, because I haven't found it yet.  I'll try to get the information from him on where it's from and post it.

[Gunner C]

my cadets are misbehaving and I don't know how to solve it i can't make them rin or do pushups os sit ups

Our 1st sgt found that not true.  Push-ups, sit-ups and the like are ok if the staff is doing it with the cadets.  I'm not actually sure this is true, because I haven't found it yet.  I'll try to get the information from him on where it's from and post it.

Not true.  It doesn't matter if the punisher takes it with the punishee.  Physical punishment is stren verbotten.

GC

[Kal]

Oop. I checked with my 1st sgt and he said that was the way he was trained. We have a lot of issues in our squadron about "Squadron Regs".  Grr.  Sorry if I mis-led anyone with my previous post.

[Kal]

Also, 52-16

"Fitness training will not be used as a form of punishment or as a vehicle to teach remedial discipline"

Sorry about this. I hope I didn't confuse anyone.  It's amazing how many of our "Squadron Regs" conflict with national's regs.

[mynetdude]

Also, 52-16

"Fitness training will not be used as a form of punishment or as a vehicle to teach remedial discipline"

Sorry about this. I hope I didn't confuse anyone.  It's amazing how many of our "Squadron Regs" conflict with national's regs.

or out of date? You guys can get into serious trouble this way, your squadron's senior staff need to make haste on corrections to these policies.

[Kal]

Yeah, our senior staff either encourages it, or isn't paying attention enough to know what is happening.  I keep trying to do something about it, but no one pays any attention to me anymore because I actually try to look at the regs and follow them. What a concept.

[DC]

Where do you fit in your squadrons organization? Are you just an element member, or do you hold a staff position?

If you are just in a flight, talk to your element leader, convince them, then move on. Be tactful in how you do it, going up to cadets with a lot more experience than you and telling them they are wrong is not going to generate results.

[Kal]

Flight sergeant.  No matter how tactful I try to be, they seem to be the typical dictator who are only there for the thrill of being in command.  I haven't seen anyone get past captain because by then they aren't CC anymore, and just leave. They only stay in if they are in charge.

[DC]

Well, start with your Flight CC, try to convince him. Once you move up to 1st Sgt you will be in a better position to make a stand. Also talk to your DCC. He is the person in the best position to put a stop to it.

[Kal]

I'll try, but our DCC doesn't care a whole lot. He either turns a blind eye or ignores it.  Unfortunatly, the only time we ever really changed is when we got the AF attention because of our idiot Cadet Commander. Also, my flight comm is the one who got this whole business started.

[mikeylikey]

^ Easy Kal....

[Eagle400]

I'll try, but our DCC doesn't care a whole lot. He either turns a blind eye or ignores it.

Ah, another DCC who delights in dropping responsibility of the squadron's cadet program into the lap of the cadet commander.

I have experienced this, and it is frustrating to say the least.  Beyond the shadow of a doubt, some people just don't "get" the CAP Cadet Program.  

Unfortunatly, the only time we ever really changed is when we got the AF attention because of our idiot Cadet Commander. Also, my flight comm is the one who got this whole business started.

No, the DCC is the one who got this whole business started, by failing to run the cadet program effectively.  The DCC should be effectively running the cadet program without micromanaging the cadet staff or making the C/CC do the DCC's job.

How did the problems of the squadron come to the attention of the Air Force?  This could make a good news story (send me a PM for more info).

[mynetdude]

I'll try, but our DCC doesn't care a whole lot. He either turns a blind eye or ignores it.

Ah, another DCC who delights in dropping responsibility of the squadron's cadet program into the lap of the cadet commander.

I have experienced this, and it is frustrating to say the least.  Beyond the shadow of a doubt, some people just don't "get" the CAP Cadet Program.   

Unfortunatly, the only time we ever really changed is when we got the AF attention because of our idiot Cadet Commander. Also, my flight comm is the one who got this whole business started.

No, the DCC is the one who got this whole business started, by failing to run the cadet program effectively.  The DCC should be effectively running the cadet program without micromanaging the cadet staff or making the C/CC do the DCC's job.

How did the problems of the squadron come to the attention of the Air Force?  This could make a good news story (send me a PM for more info).

^^ I'd be real careful with this, Kai needs to be careful too... some of you already saw what happened to me recently for stating something about someone, but Kai's comments about his DCC is far worse than the assumptions I made.

So really... I'd back off and not even bring this up as a newsworthy item... CAP doesn't need bad press.

[Kal]

Ok. Sounds good to me.