review boards

[Dutchboy]

I have a few questions on review boards.
1. For a cadet review board at the squadron level who is required to sit on the board?
2. How many senior members are required to sit on a review board, is it 1 or 2, plus a cadet , or plus 2 cadets?

[lordmonar]

Review boards are not required at all....so the answer to question 1 is ....no one.
and the answer to question 2 is zero.

Local policy drives review boards.  Check 52-16 for some guidance on what they are supposed to be doing...get your leadership to write up an OI and then press on.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I have a few questions on review boards.
1. For a cadet review board at the squadron level who is required to sit on the board?
2. How many senior members are required to sit on a review board, is it 1 or 2, plus a cadet , or plus 2 cadets?

1.  When I did them for Wing, we had 3 Senior Officers.  The Squadron commander or designee and two other officers.

2.  Three Senior Officers.  One asks only AE, One asks only Leadership, and one is toss up questions.

[jimmydeanno]

I have a few questions on review boards.
1. For a cadet review board at the squadron level who is required to sit on the board?
2. How many senior members are required to sit on a review board, is it 1 or 2, plus a cadet , or plus 2 cadets?

Our promotion review boards are like this:

1) A cadet receives one for every promotion.

2) A CAPF 50 is filled out for everyone.  Why? Because it gives experience to the cadets who fill them out on how to evaluate someone.

3) On the review board we only have one senior (the leadership officer) and two cadets - the cadet commander and the cadet's immediate supervisor. 

4) The cadet's immediate supervisor fills out the CAPF 50 a week prior to the board so that it can be reviewed - since it goes in the cadets record and "Cadet is good" isn't sufficient feedback.

5) The cadet's ask questions about things like, "What can you do as a C/SrA that you couldn't as a C/A1C.?" or "How does your role change with the next promotion?"  We don't have them regurgitate information they already passed on the test, maybe some adaptations to check understanding - like "Why was Major General John F. Curry's contributions to CAP significant?"

6) After only a few questions we review the CAPF 50, talk about goals; short term, long term, etc.  Talk about areas that need improvement, things they should focus on during the next few months to make sure they don't come up short for the next one, etc.

7) If the cadet 'fails' the board.  We knew they were going to already and go into the board prepared for that outcome so that we can properly direct their feedback to ensuring they don't 'fail' another one.

8) If they fail they come out of the feedback session with a date for their next review and a plan on how we are going to 'remedy' their deficiencies.

9) Do we let some things slide? Sure because sometimes that's a better tool than holding them back.  Example, you know that a cadet is really determined to get their WBA before encampment so they can be a C/SSgt.  They aren't quite up to speed in one small area, we tell them - "we think that you need to remedy this area, however, we will promote you on the condition that you learn this or do this before your promotion date."  It seems to work pretty well.

But back to the main questions, none and none.  What is important is that the cadet receives proper/quality feedback.  However, remember that the BoR process is not only important to the cadet being reviewed development, but the development of the reviewers.  So I would make an active effort to bring C/Flt Sgts into the boards, C/Flt CCs, etc.  It gives them experience on evaluating others.  Then the senior in the board can give feedback on how the feedback was given - a double win scenario.  YMMV.

[jimmydeanno]

1.  When I did them for Wing, we had 3 Senior Officers.  The Squadron commander or designee and two other officers.

2.  Three Senior Officers.  One asks only AE, One asks only Leadership, and one is toss up questions.

I may be missing something in the procedure you have here but IIRC 52-16 says that review boards "will not re-test cadets on material that they passed already in achievement tests."

Even if it isn't a "promotion review board" I fail to see the relevance in ensuring a cadet can spit out some random basic knowledge questions.  I would think that the cadets skills and maturity would be a better factor or questions like, "Why are you a better NCSA candidate than these other guys?"

[DC]

We do boards for every promotion, as well as CAPF 50s. Our board is usually three SMs and two senior cadets (frequently the C/DC and 1st Sgt). Our questions are usually aimed at maturity, as well as questions geared toward positions they are likely to hold. ex: by the time a cadet reaches C/MSgt I expect them to have a decent grasp on CAPR 52-16 and some administrative skills, because at that point I expect them to be capable of being a competent First Sergeant.

Our boards get more difficult as a cadet moves up, and the questions become more specific.

[Walkman]

From the CAP Knowledge Base:

Question:
Are there any rules governing who can be on a cadet promotion board?

Answer:
Yes. See Paragraph 2-4d (below)  of  CAP REGULATION 52-16 CADET PROGRAM MANAGEMENT 1 OCTOBER 2006

d. Promotion Boards. Although not required, units may hold promotion boards (sometimes known as boards of review), to help the commander decide if cadets are ready to accept the increased responsibilities that come with their promotions. If used, promotion boards must meet the following criteria:

(1) The commander (or commander's designee) must evaluate each cadet using a CAPF 50.

(2) Promotion boards will not re-test cadets on material they already passed through achievement tests.

(3) Commanders must apply local promotion board policies consistently, with all cadets being subject to the same process

[mikeylikey]

I never liked promotion boards for cadets.  If the Staff is so needing of the boards to determine who to promote, the question that should be asked is..........

WHERE THE heck has the staff been that they can not get together alone and discuss specifics that they noticed during weekly meetings, and activities?

From the rules we know we can not ask achievement questions.  OK.  There goes almost half of the promotion boards that are convened. 

What type of question can be asked and answered that would determine whether the cadet should be promoted?  Don't say "recite the cadet oath", because that is an achievement test question, so its out!

Promotion boards work for the military because of the amount of members up for promotion.  Since the Cadet program has no max promotable number for specific cadet grades, there is no need. 

I can make a promote, don't promote decision of a Cadet in 10 minutes just by silent observation.  How the cadet interacts with other cadets, is proper customs/courtesies used etc.


I have seen boards used to hold up promotions because the Commander wanted another Cadet to receive the promotion first, or the Cadet Commander was a 2nd Lt, but if we promoted Timmy to 1st Lt, the Cadet Commander would be subordinate rank.  In both instances I pressed for the removal of said Commander and got my way.

If a Cadet shows up, passes PT, AE and Leadership, does outside squadron activities, participates in Moral Leadership discussions and does everything else required for a promotion, I have to say PROMOTE the Cadet.  This is not the Air force.  If we promote a Cadet before he or she should be promoted based on a maturity factor, the Squadron is not going to fall apart.  Reward achievement, not age.     

I will make it known right now, I hate promotion boards in CAP.  I also hate activity selection boards that are orchestrated by the Wing HQ to choose cadets for National activities.  More often than not, there is some kind of hidden practice of selecting older cadets for specific national activities even if they were not best qualified.  It is a shame that a 12 year old who works for 5 years in CAP is not selected for a specail activity just because the Cadet who joined 3 years ago will be 21, and won't be able to participate in the Special activity the following year.  To me that sounds like AGE Discrimination, and it happens ALL the TIME. 

I think the decisions about whether to promote or not promote are decided well in advance of any Cadet Review Board.  If you try to tell me otherwise, I will just disagree with you.

[jimmydeanno]

Mikey,

I completely understand your sentiments and frequently the boards are not conducted as intended.

I think I said earlier that we determine whether or not the cadet is going to be promoted before he even comes in the room.

We definitely use it as a feedback rehash/goal setting/formal feedback scenario.  We talk about the cadet's progress thus far, what's next, what they need to do if they want to do "X," etc.  For example, we say, "What do you want to get done in the next 6 months," they say, "I'd really like to get myself in a position where I can be a flight sergeant."  We say, "Great, this is what we look for in flight sergeants, this is when the next term comes up, these are the skill sets we'll be looking for."  From there we talk about a plan of action, things they need to work on to reach those goals.

Or they say, "I'd really like to go to Hawk Mountain next year." Then we just say, "Why?" (kidding), but we talk to them about the things they can do to make themselves a better candidate. 

I understand your "reward achievement" sentiments and I agree, but it is also important that they learn that to get ahead you need to possess certain skills and for a promotion to C/CMSgt they need to possess "X" skills.  To blindly hand out the award for sub-par performance only reduces the meaning to the cadets.  When they earn that award, they know they really earned it.

Other benefits include; job interview skills, self-reflection, goal setting, evaluating others, formal feedback, building self-worth, leadership development, etc.

I think the PRB, if conducted 'properly' is a great asset to our program.

[mikeylikey]

^ I missed your points above, sorry.  I totally agree with you, that if the board does what you do in every case it can be a great benefit to the Cadet.  However, why not call it what it is, a counseling session.  I routinely counsel Cadets on everything you just listed for the exact same reasons.  I also plan out action plans with the Cadet and get them on track.

I just never like the promotion boards because they can be abused, and there is no oversight. 

However, I would welcome a formal counseling board that convenes twice each phase with the sole purpose of developing plans, setting goals and making professional recommendations to the cadet.  That has be something that I initiated in Squadrons I have been in, and it is always a betterment for all involved.  The cadet feels as if the Staff is "really there" for him or her, and has is or her best interests at heart. 

To tell a Cadet "Sorry Billy, but were not promoting you even though you did everything required, but you lack a command presence when you enter a room", only goes to destroy said Cadet.  It is not fair, and I have seen Cadets leave CAP because of it.  What is worse than doing everything asked of you to be promoted, but not getting promoted because a fellow cadet on the review board says "not mature enough".  Until CAP implements a "Maturity Instillment Program", and specifically says these are the maturity factors that you need to meet for promotion for achievement X, I will never mandate a Promotion Review Board in any Squadron I happen to be working in, and I will absolutely express my distaste for any Squadron Commander who feels they need one. 

Sorry Jimmy, I agree with what you are doing at the Board, but I don't agree with having a board to begin with.  You can just as easily do what you do in a more casual environment.

[SAR-EMT1]

My unit uses promotion boards.

The makeup is : Unit/CC or DCC
                          AEO or designate
                         Cadet NCO or Officer

We use them to primarily serve two purposes.

1)  This is done to ensure that the cadet has truely retained the information. In the event of a missed question they are to look up the answer and report to the board at the end of the meeting. They cannot be "held from promoting." The questions we SMs ask are straight from the last leadership and AE tests the cadet took. The cadet NCO asks questions about the cadets place in the unit etc...

2) Make sure the cadets know how to report in.

[mikeylikey]

^ You understand your board is illegal?  Did you read the post about 5 posts up about not re-hashing leadership or AE material? 

I can see you doing this thing to make sure the cadets correct their test to 100%, but really, a board is not needed to do that!

[SAR-EMT1]

It would be illegal IF the board was using said review to withhold promotions or the like.

We arent doing anything of the sort.

Its more like: So cadet X what airfoil controls lift? The Wing? Yep! Good job, I'll see you for your O-flight Saturday... you are dismissed.

The cadets have already corrected their tests.
This is solely t oensure that they remember the material. And if they don't? - They look up the correct answer and give it to the DCC at the end of the meeting.  Then at retreat, the DCC pins on the new stripes.

[SamFranklin]

NHQ sent something new to all squadrons recently, CAPP 52-15 Cadet Staff Handbook, and it covers promotion boards (they call them "feedback meetings"). 

It also goes into those maturity issues mikey mentioned above.

Section 2.7 seems to be the most relevant.  Here's the link:
http://level2.cap.gov/documents/P052_015.pdf

[lordmonar]

It would be illegal IF the board was using said review to withhold promotions or the like.

We arent doing anything of the sort.

Then why quiz them at all?

This is solely t oensure that they remember the material. And if they don't? - They look up the correct answer and give it to the DCC at the end of the meeting.  Then at retreat, the DCC pins on the new stripes.

What does that have to do with promotion.....there is no requirement to "remember the material" beyond taking the test.

I too don't like face to face promotion boards.....the boards should be your cadet and senior leadership meeting with the CAPF 50 and discussing the readiness of the cadet to promote.

[arajca]

As a cadet, the only time I went before a board was when applying for the ILWG Balloon Encampment. IIRC, there were six or seven applicants for every slot.

[Walkman]

After reading the regs I quoted earlier, we had a change in the way we did our boards that night. Instead of quizzing on the material, we questions like
"Why do you think it's important to be a follower first, then a leader?"
"What are your CAP goals?"
"Tell me about General Curry, why is he important to us?"
"Why do you think it's important to learn about Air Environment in CAP?"
"What does leadership mean to you in your new position as an element leader? How will you lead your element?"

Questions meant to get into their thoughts, goals and deeper understandings. It's also a time to give them some coaching on things to work on for their next promotion.

[mynetdude]

After reading the regs I quoted earlier, we had a change in the way we did our boards that night. Instead of quizzing on the material, we questions like
"Why do you think it's important to be a follower first, then a leader?"
"What are your CAP goals?"
"Tell me about General Curry, why is he important to us?"
"Why do you think it's important to learn about Air Environment in CAP?"
"What does leadership mean to you in your new position as an element leader? How will you lead your element?"

Questions meant to get into their thoughts, goals and deeper understandings. It's also a time to give them some coaching on things to work on for their next promotion.

Isn't the question about Gen Curry still an achievement question? If so, still needs shaping. I am pretty sure its an achievement related topic, the cadets get tested on that.

Don't get me started on PRBs... we have a cadet in our squadron who has been held up for promo due to maturity big time.  I don't know if I disagree with it or agree with it.

I have no prior military experience, nor will I ever get any sadly .  So I can't tell you how PRBs work in the military.  Although, it makes no sense to disregard all maturity if a particular cadet wants to be a CMsgt and can't even take constructive criticism well why would I want to promote a cadet to CMsgt if he/she can't handle that fact?

Explain to me... though I DO disagree with holding cadets back because they completed everything they were required to do including participate in activities, etc.  PRBs seem to be a pretty hot topic on how to do them properly, we even have a cadet's (the same one) parent who is a member also has raised hell with the squadron DCC and the CC about these very same issues.

Then check this out... we have a cadet who just recently promoted to c/2d Lt and he isn't even the cadet commander.  The cadet commander now is the cadet who was the 1st Sgt.  I don't know all their ranks but I have noticed things are a bit backwards, which in a way is perfectly understandable I have seen 1st Lts as CC when there is a LtCol in the squadron, heck we have a Captain who is a CC and now recently the deputy commander for seniors was promoted to captain, was a 1st Lt we have several LtCols in our squadron. But to deprive a cadet of highmost rank of being the cadet commander whether or not the DCC likes him or not is another question.

Hey I don't mess with this mess... if thats how they run their show that is fine... they have lost cadets plenty over this.  I still think maturity should have SOME factor, it should not be the SOLE factor though.

[SSgt Rudin]

..I have noticed things are a bit backwards, which in a way is perfectly understandable I have seen 1st Lts as CC when there is a LtCol in the squadron, heck we have a Captain who is a CC and now recently the deputy commander for seniors was promoted to captain, was a 1st Lt we have several LtCols in our squadron...

Most of the time on the senior side, what you wear on your collor has nothing to do with what position you get. Most of the time the LTC's have BTDT and don't want to do it again, They are happy being the "Whatever" Officer. IE I am the Deputy Commander (a 2d lt) the CC is a 1st Lt, but we have 2 LTC's, 3 MAJ's, 2 CAPT's, and a bunch of 1st Lt's, while a lot of them want the title they don't want the work that comes with it.
Also if I were a SQCC and my choices for DCC/C were a 1st LT who was a Earhart Cadet or a Maj who has only been a SM...(jeopardy music)... the 1st Lt wins.

I have a similar sticker to the one below on my fire helmet

And truthfully, it doesn't. Rank means nothing when it comes to Positional Authority. The CC is the CC is the CC.

[mynetdude]

..I have noticed things are a bit backwards, which in a way is perfectly understandable I have seen 1st Lts as CC when there is a LtCol in the squadron, heck we have a Captain who is a CC and now recently the deputy commander for seniors was promoted to captain, was a 1st Lt we have several LtCols in our squadron...

Most of the time on the senior side, what you wear on your collor has nothing to do with what position you get. Most of the time the LTC's have BTDT and don't want to do it again, They are happy being the "Whatever" Officer. IE I am the Deputy Commander (a 2d lt) the CC is a 1st Lt, but we have 2 LTC's, 3 MAJ's, 2 CAPT's, and a bunch of 1st Lt's, while a lot of them want the title they don't want the work that comes with it.
Also if I were a SQCC and my choices for DCC/C were a 1st LT who was a Earhart Cadet or a Maj who has only been a SM...(jeopardy music)... the 1st Lt wins.

I have a similar sticker to the one below on my fire helmet

And truthfully, it doesn't. Rank means nothing when it comes to Positional Authority. The CC is the CC is the CC.

I'm not saying rank/grade should mean anything, its what duty position you are in.  Like you said, CC is the CC no exceptions IFs and Buts... the LtCols though have more experience and should be respected with such however.

We have a LtCol in our squadron, he has NEVER been a commander, so I'd like to see a LtCol BE the squadron commander, most Sq commanders I have seen are 1lt, Captain and Maj.

Of course the only commander that I have seen above the LtCol rank is the wing commander and region commander (I have never met my region commander, not sure if I will at the PCR conference.  Though I will get to meet the esteemed national commander).

I was just pointing this out because not that I think its backwards on the Senior side of things, it is expected however to see things backwards on the cadet side is a bit akward because we have a c/2lt now and he isn't even the cadet commander nor will he ever be.

I have seen some strange things with our cadets that make no real sense even though I have no military experience some things just don't look logically in place and takes a little common sense to figure out.

This is one area I don't get into, I am not the DCC.