Another D&C Question

[flyguy06]

I like to visit other squadrons (mainly because my squadron isnt active) One thing I have noticed when I see the cadets drilling. A lot of cadets do not realize that every command does not have a Prepertory Command and command of Excecution.

I hear then say things like "Squadron, Fall out". Certain commands are one part commands such as:
Fall In
Fall Out
Dismissed
AT EASE

These commands do not require a prepartory command. Are these things not being taught in our Squadron? Or does CAP just have their own way of doing things?

[jimmydeanno]

CAP uses the same manual as the AF (36-2203).  So it just isn't being taught.  Its just a case of "that's the way we've always done it," without someone actually reading how it should be done.

[DC]

CAP squadrons are rife with drill myths because everyone is too lazy to read the manual. Cadets are taught a certain way and take their instructor's word for it, never bothering to look for themselves.

Before I ever start teaching new cadets drill I always try to skim through 36-2203 to make sure I'm not imparting bad habits I picked up when I first learned to drill. It works pretty well, I also do a Drill Myths class with the cadets so they don't see it somewhere else and start doing it...

[mikeylikey]

I also do a Drill Myths class with the cadets so they don't see it somewhere else and start doing it...

See it done incorrectly at an Encampment perhaps?  That is usually where the Cadets "pick up" incorrect practices.  I love the Cadet that want to argue and say "thats how we did it at Encampment".  Even in the Service, I have soldiers tell me "Sir thats not how we did it at AIT".  For those instances, I break out whatever manual and make them do the Step-Action-Drill for me.....as in, step one do this, step two do this...etc.  It works!

[DC]

I also do a Drill Myths class with the cadets so they don't see it somewhere else and start doing it...

See it done incorrectly at an Encampment perhaps?  That is usually where the Cadets "pick up" incorrect practices.  I love the Cadet that want to argue and say "thats how we did it at Encampment".  Even in the Service, I have soldiers tell me "Sir thats not how we did it at AIT".  For those instances, I break out whatever manual and make them do the Step-Action-Drill for me.....as in, step one do this, step two do this...etc.  It works!

I saw some horrendous stuff at encampment, especially around falling in and out, etc.

This isn't drill, but one of the funniest things I saw was a cadet that addressed every staff member that came upto them like "Yes, Sir/Ma'am/Sergeant" or "No, Sir/Ma'am/Sergeant" It was absolutely hilarious. He was like, "but thats what it says in the book..." when one of the First Sergeants 'counseled' him on it. Then he got chewed out for leaving First Sergeant out.. I guess if you're going to screw up you should do it properly (or something like that...).

The other thing that bugged me at Encampment, but in particular the Wing Conference, was uniforms. I mean, how difficult is it to pick up 39-1 and read. It even has pretty pictures to help you out...

[jimmydeanno]

It even has pretty pictures to help you out...

I think that is the problem...

[BlackKnight]

I hear then say things like "Squadron, Fall out". Certain commands are one part commands such as:
Fall In
Fall Out
Dismissed
AT EASE

These commands do not require a preparatory command. Are these things not being taught in our Squadron? Or does CAP just have their own way of doing things?

In my squadron we often have various flights doing different things on the parade ground (tarmac). The training flight may be working on basic drill while the Alpha and Bravo flights will be working on advanced drill.  To avoid confusion as to which flight the command instruction applies, you will often hear the flight sergeants use a preparatory "Alpha Flight, FALL-IN!" or "Training Flight, Fall-out!"  We try to follow AFMAN 36-2203 as closely as possible, but sometimes you have to use common sense to avoid chaos. Particularly if the training flight is nearby. 

For drill of the entire squadron we use the "Squadron" preparatory command before your above examples if command has been exchanged.  When the cadet commander or first sergeant turns over drill of the squadron to a subordinate, the subordinate will issue the "squadron-" preparatory command once to signify to all that he/she has taken command.

[flyguy06]

There is no prepartory command for "FALL OUT", or "FALL IN".

If the leader is standing in front of the flight at the time of falling out, it is obvious who he is talking to. I can understand using the name of the flight for Fall in if there are many cadets around and it is desired only one unit fall in.

[BlackKnight]

There is no prepartory command for "FALL OUT", or "FALL IN".

If the leader is standing in front of the flight at the time of falling out, it is obvious who he is talking to. I can understand using the name of the flight for Fall in if there are many cadets around and it is desired only one unit fall in.

True, the "leader" knows who she is talking to.  But in a practice situation she may not be recognized as THE leader if the cadets are milling around having just finished some other activity. If the squadron is used to hearing the first sergeant or the cadet commander call commands, it helps the squadron respond to that unfamiliar 14 yr-old C/MSgt trainee if they get an initial preparatory command.  "One ping only..."  After command has been established there is no need for further preparatory commands for Fall In or Fall Out.  Many squadrons employ a loud: "By my command" but that's even worse - it's not in the manual either!

In reality the scenario I've outlined doesn't occur very often.  I was just reviewing the circumstances where I've seen preparatory commands issued, and I can see the logic for doing so in certain cases.

[jimmydeanno]

Here's a real world scenario...

I remember watching my wife's morning formation when she was in Tech School at Keesler.  Since there were thousands of personnel all in the same area, there were different formations to take attendance and make announcements.  Every time the formation would fall in, the "rope" would specify who was falling in - "Comm Ops, FALL IN" - this ensured that some random person didn't fall in with your formation.

Not everyone knew who their leader was going to be on a certain day and definitely didn't get familiar with everyone in their class. 

In a CAP squadron that has multiple flights I would not have any problem with the Flt Sgt saying "Alpha Flight, FALL IN."

[SarDragon]

Jimmy, that reeks of common sense. You're going to have to knock that off immediately. 

[nesagsar]

We had to in my squadron because we had Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Tango, and Sierra flights to worry about.