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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Compatible Radio with IC-4008m ICOM
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Author Topic: Compatible Radio with IC-4008m ICOM  (Read 1145 times)
DPara
Newbie

Posts: 1
Unit: NER-MA-007

« on: February 01, 2018, 01:18:53 PM »

We are looking to buy new radios for encampment and the IC-4008m was discontinued so are there any compatible models that we can buy so we don't need to replace every single radio we have?
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Geber
Recruit

Posts: 33
Unit: NER-VT-009

« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 01:33:27 PM »

The Icom website says the 4088 is the successor.

All family radio service radios can talk to each other, so they are all compatible, in a sense. But there are two areas where issues could arise.

First, the so-called privacy codes. See an explanation at http://henryranch.net/radio-communication/frs-radio-privacy-tone-list/

You probably won't want to teach the cadets about how to line up the privacy codes between two different manufacturers, so you will want to check this out before making a purchase.

The second issue is accessories; extra items like speaker mikes from one model might not fit another model.
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Mordecai
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,136
Unit: SI

« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2018, 02:01:07 PM »

I don't believe that is frequency compatible with the ISRs.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,166
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2018, 02:36:58 PM »

That is correct. The ISRs are in a different part of the UHF band, in a military use segment, hence the 'm' in the model number.

FRS/GMRS is 462/467 MHz, while ISR is 396/397/399 MHz.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Nick
Seasoned Member

Posts: 494
Unit: SWR-TX-001

« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2018, 12:09:19 AM »

Some commercial UHF Band 1 radios start at 380 MHz so they’re an option, but they also start at around $500 unless you can find a deal (there are some Vertex’s out there going for $250). You want to stay clear of the non-reputable brands (eBay and Amazon specials) if nothing else just to keep NTIA compliant.


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Nicholas McLarty, Lt Col, CAP
Texas Wing Staff Guy
National Cadet Team Guy
Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 644

« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2018, 12:27:46 AM »

Have you tried requesting additional radios from wing or NHQ? If you have a need for them they will typically issue them.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,166
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2018, 04:34:02 AM »

Some commercial UHF Band 1 radios start at 380 MHz so they’re an option, but they also start at around $500 unless you can find a deal (there are some Vertex’s out there going for $250). You want to stay clear of the non-reputable brands (eBay and Amazon specials) if nothing else just to keep NTIA compliant.


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It is my understanding that radios used on the ISR frequencies must be type rated, and are limited to 0.5 W power output.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Mordecai
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,136
Unit: SI

« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2018, 05:46:08 AM »

Some commercial UHF Band 1 radios start at 380 MHz so they’re an option, but they also start at around $500 unless you can find a deal (there are some Vertex’s out there going for $250). You want to stay clear of the non-reputable brands (eBay and Amazon specials) if nothing else just to keep NTIA compliant.


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It is my understanding that radios used on the ISR frequencies must be type rated, and are limited to 0.5 W power output.

I believe that is incorrect.

https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/compendium/0335.40-0399.90_01MAR14.pdf
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,166
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2018, 06:11:01 AM »

That document discusses the band in general, and doesn't speak of specific frequency assignments. I do know that CAP is prohibited from using two of the ISR channels now (11 and 12?) because of reassignment within the military. I'l have to root around to see where I found the specific frequency info. Tomorrow.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
radioguy
Recruit

Posts: 23
Unit: MER-NC-019

« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2018, 07:29:08 PM »


To my knowledge, there is no appropriate successor to the IC-4008m ISR (Intra-Squad Radio).  As was stated earlier, even though the frequencies are different, these radios must meet similar requirements to the civilian FRS radios and, as far as I know, the use of other "capable-but-not-approved" radios on ISR frequencies is not authorized. 

It has been my understanding that these radios are destined to simply fade away as more and more become unserviceable.  Remember that they are an accountable item in ORMS and must be retired appropriately.
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Brad
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 784
Unit: MER-SC-020

« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 03:52:13 AM »


To my knowledge, there is no appropriate successor to the IC-4008m ISR (Intra-Squad Radio).  As was stated earlier, even though the frequencies are different, these radios must meet similar requirements to the civilian FRS radios and, as far as I know, the use of other "capable-but-not-approved" radios on ISR frequencies is not authorized. 

It has been my understanding that these radios are destined to simply fade away as more and more become unserviceable.  Remember that they are an accountable item in ORMS and must be retired appropriately.

Correct, taking an off-the-shelf ISR radio and putting it into service is the same as taking a random VHF ham radio and putting it into service for CAP purposes, despite it not being on the compliant equipment list. (Yes I know there is no compliance list for UHF/ISR radios, that's because it's been a single-source non-issue for years now.)

From the TOA:

Quote
[UHF]/FM Inter Squad Radio (ISR), 14 channels, 397 - 400mhz. Operates on fixed DoD
frequencies allocated for this purpose. Only equipment specifically manufactured to operate
on these DoD frequencies is allowed. Converted equipment from other bands is forbidden. At
the time of this writing the ICOM IC-4008M is the only known legal ISR radio.

So, here's what I recommend, and what we've done for SCWG encampment for about 3 years now: If you're the CUL for encampment, contact your Wing DC, and find out how many VHF go-kits they have to spare for the week. They should at least have one, which will get you 6 VHF handhelds (the EF Johnson "bricks") that you can put into service. With the 4 kits we have, we are able to support encampment staff easily with them and the use of a tactical repeater hooked into the base water tower courtesy of coordination with range ops (required under CAPR 100-1 anyway due to activity length).

Remember, not everybody needs a radio, but the people you do give radios to, need to be able to talk to each other in just about every foreseeable scenario outside of outright comm failure. That range listing in the ISR manual? Not accurate, that's conducted in a lab environment, not in the field. It doesn't account for building cover, trees, etc. Not to mention that the longleaf pine is a resonate for a lot of RF frequencies in the VHF and UHF bands, so that will chew up a bunch of your signal. It's a major problem here in SC, so much so that we don't even consider issuing ISRs anymore at encampment due to no usable signal given the layout of where we house the Cadets vs where they drill at and have class at, etc. At the end of the day though, that is all things that a CUL needs to consider in deciding a comm plan.

Yes the VHFs are more of a burden weight wise and value wise and may "scare off" some folks who think they'll break them or don't want to deal with all that, but remember: you train on ICUT on EF Johnson radios as the CAP standard radio, not ICOM ISR radios. :)
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Brad Lee
Maj, CAP
Assistant Director of Communications
SCWG
K4RMN
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,189

« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2018, 10:58:55 AM »

In addition to VHF handheld caches, see if members can bring vhf radios from their units. I tell them (and keep my word on it) that Encampment will log the radio in, but will not take it from the member. Logging it in means we can find the guilty party when the radio gets left behind at lunch. Also, many members have their own compliant vhf radios.

If you don't want to use a repeater, use one of the simplex channels.

I've also done the same with ISRs.
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Compatible Radio with IC-4008m ICOM
 


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