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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Rejoining after 20 years
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Author Topic: Rejoining after 20 years  (Read 2938 times)
Cicero
Seasoned Member

Posts: 232
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2018, 05:51:13 PM »

A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

Agreed, this is why I have done SLS, OBC and soon UCC. In person. The world is different today. Civil Air Patrol is in some ways and some things just never change. :)
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1st Encampment 1973
2nd Staff 1976
Mitchell 1976
Earhart 1976
Eaker 1977
1st Lt, CAP
Fester
Member

Posts: 83

« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2018, 05:57:55 PM »

A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

Agreed, this is why I have done SLS, OBC and soon UCC. In person. The world is different today. Civil Air Patrol is in some ways and some things just never change. :)

I understand.

It is nice to be given a leg up for all the time, work and sweat we put in 20 (or 40) years ago.  I haven't decided if I will seek credit for the items I am eligible for (and have earned) and then read through all the course material OR if I will waive seeking that credit and participate in those items.  I think the ideal solution would be for a "completed" item in eServices to be available to retake.  Which, I'm not certain, but it seems like that is not an option.
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"Fester," 1st Lt, CAP
Yeager Award - 18
Eaker Award - 96

TXWG CAC - 96 (Vice Chair), 97 (Chair)
Encampments (CAWG, TXWG, OKWG) - 93, 94, 95, 96 (x2), 97
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,189

« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2018, 06:38:11 PM »

While they don't do that with OBC, if you take SLS, CLC, TLC, and/or UCC again, they will update your records with the new date of completion. At least they did with my TLC.
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CAP9907
Recruit

Posts: 35
Unit: NER-000

« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2018, 12:31:33 AM »

Agree with the majority here. Your CAP experience is really out of date, esp with regards to the ICS and how we are ‘supposed’ to use it (assuming you want to do ES). With that said, our ES task guides are also badly out of date, but it is what we are using.

If you don’t want to get credit for the SLS, CLC, etc, then at least audit the courses. The information is mostly relevant and you will meet people and do some networking at the very least. YMMV,

9907

A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.
Logged
16 yrs of service
Cicero
Seasoned Member

Posts: 232
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2018, 01:18:29 AM »

Agree with the majority here. Your CAP experience is really out of date, esp with regards to the ICS and how we are ‘supposed’ to use it (assuming you want to do ES). With that said, our ES task guides are also badly out of date, but it is what we are using.

If you don’t want to get credit for the SLS, CLC, etc, then at least audit the courses. The information is mostly relevant and you will meet people and do some networking at the very least. YMMV,

9907

A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

ES was the big change, comm changed - a lot, so has the Cadet Program. The Cadet Protection Program was so overdue and necessary!
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1st Encampment 1973
2nd Staff 1976
Mitchell 1976
Earhart 1976
Eaker 1977
1st Lt, CAP
CAPLTC
Member

Posts: 93
Unit: MER

« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2018, 11:20:11 AM »

Meh...
If the reg says you can come in as a 1LT or CPT, do it; if you can get credit for OBC or SLS, likewise - do it.
Time is time is time - most valuable commodity we have as an adult.
Learn how eServices works and you'll very quickly get spun-up on "how CAP works in 2018." None of our Regs and Pams are phone books.

And...
our ES task guides are also badly out of date, but it is what we are using.

True ...
Our ES plans/policies/procedures are 20 years out of date.
It's unfortunate.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
Fester
Member

Posts: 83

« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2018, 02:33:38 PM »

Meh...
If the reg says you can come in as a 1LT or CPT, do it; if you can get credit for OBC or SLS, likewise - do it.
Time is time is time - most valuable commodity we have as an adult.
Learn how eServices works and you'll very quickly get spun-up on "how CAP works in 2018." None of our Regs and Pams are phone books.

And...
our ES task guides are also badly out of date, but it is what we are using.

True ...
Our ES plans/policies/procedures are 20 years out of date.
It's unfortunate.

Yeah, that's probably what I'm going to do.  I haven't even joined yet and I've already audited many of the items that are required for Seniors.... Level I, Level II, all the CPPT info, OBC, SLS, GENES info, GT Info, MS and MO info, all of the specialty track task guides that I'm interested in.
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"Fester," 1st Lt, CAP
Yeager Award - 18
Eaker Award - 96

TXWG CAC - 96 (Vice Chair), 97 (Chair)
Encampments (CAWG, TXWG, OKWG) - 93, 94, 95, 96 (x2), 97
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,029

« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2018, 05:57:23 PM »

Meh...
If the reg says you can come in as a 1LT or CPT, do it; if you can get credit for OBC or SLS, likewise - do it.
Time is time is time - most valuable commodity we have as an adult.
Learn how eServices works and you'll very quickly get spun-up on "how CAP works in 2018." None of our Regs and Pams are phone books.

It's not a matter of taking the promotion because you're eligible. Take the promotion. After all, in this organization, your grade is more of a symbol of experience than it is connected to your duty position/leadership role.

But now that you have that promotion, go back and re-take the class. It's not even a re-take as this point. After 20 years, it's a class you've never had, regardless of the grandfathering and "substitute" training. It doesn't hurt except for a small financial burden (what is it, $10 in our Wing?).
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,166
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2018, 10:37:05 PM »

Amen to that.

Simply "auditing" SLS and TLC will be of little benefit, which is why we are encouraging attendance. There are exercises in the courses that are done as a group. The student interaction is a key part of the courses,
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Mordecai
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,136
Unit: SI

« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2018, 01:01:11 AM »

A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

Agreed, this is why I have done SLS, OBC and soon UCC. In person. The world is different today. Civil Air Patrol is in some ways and some things just never change. :)

I understand.

It is nice to be given a leg up for all the time, work and sweat we put in 20 (or 40) years ago.  I haven't decided if I will seek credit for the items I am eligible for (and have earned) and then read through all the course material OR if I will waive seeking that credit and participate in those items.  I think the ideal solution would be for a "completed" item in eServices to be available to retake.  Which, I'm not certain, but it seems like that is not an option.

I have absolutely zero doubt that if you asked to sit through SLS, CLC, etc a second time that anyone would give you grief.
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Fester
Member

Posts: 83

« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2018, 01:41:13 AM »

A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

Agreed, this is why I have done SLS, OBC and soon UCC. In person. The world is different today. Civil Air Patrol is in some ways and some things just never change. :)

I understand.

It is nice to be given a leg up for all the time, work and sweat we put in 20 (or 40) years ago.  I haven't decided if I will seek credit for the items I am eligible for (and have earned) and then read through all the course material OR if I will waive seeking that credit and participate in those items.  I think the ideal solution would be for a "completed" item in eServices to be available to retake.  Which, I'm not certain, but it seems like that is not an option.

I have absolutely zero doubt that if you asked to sit through SLS, CLC, etc a second time that anyone would give you grief.

I'm sure.  But that is somewhat where the issue lies and why I'm not leaning towards not seeking credit for what I earned.  All of these activities occur on weekends.  Which is the worst absolute time of the week for me.  My profession doesn't allow for me to be off on weekends very often at all.
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"Fester," 1st Lt, CAP
Yeager Award - 18
Eaker Award - 96

TXWG CAC - 96 (Vice Chair), 97 (Chair)
Encampments (CAWG, TXWG, OKWG) - 93, 94, 95, 96 (x2), 97
Mordecai
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,136
Unit: SI

« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2018, 01:50:29 AM »

Then I would more strenuously urge you to seek the credit. All the course docs are available online; I'm of the firm opinion that if further PD options were denied to you because of a lack of SLS or CLC when you have the option to take the credit you'd kick yourself repeatedly for not taking the opportunity to have the credit when it was available.
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Phil Hirons, Jr.
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 795
Unit: NER-RI-033

« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2018, 02:03:55 PM »

16 years ago next month (Mar 2018) I rejoined as a senior after 18 years out of the program. I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet and I could never find proof of my having been a C/Lt Col. I got the 1st Lt promotion but the credits described below did not exist at the time. I rejoined to payback the benefits I got from the cadet program.
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GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 140
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2018, 02:33:48 PM »

I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet.

The quoted items are true for me as well. I had some orders for C/Lt Col which I sent to NHQ but they didn't accept them. Not really a problem but I thought I would try. I don't have any proof that I was ever a part of the wing CAC and that when I participated in the substitute program for IACE in 1966 that we were awarded the ribbon. It was in CAP News but has apparently been lost in the mists of time.
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Fester
Member

Posts: 83

« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2018, 03:22:49 PM »

16 years ago next month (Mar 2018) I rejoined as a senior after 18 years out of the program. I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet and I could never find proof of my having been a C/Lt Col. I got the 1st Lt promotion but the credits described below did not exist at the time. I rejoined to payback the benefits I got from the cadet program.

Understood.  Giving back is my main reason for rejoining.  I was afforded so many awesome opportunities as a cadet and I want to help make those available for the next generation.  That being said, my time is very limited so if I can get credit toward items in the SM program (I do want to progress in grade and take advantage of the PD program) I would rather do that so I can devote more time to giving back.
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"Fester," 1st Lt, CAP
Yeager Award - 18
Eaker Award - 96

TXWG CAC - 96 (Vice Chair), 97 (Chair)
Encampments (CAWG, TXWG, OKWG) - 93, 94, 95, 96 (x2), 97
Fester
Member

Posts: 83

« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2018, 03:24:38 PM »

I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet.

The quoted items are true for me as well. I had some orders for C/Lt Col which I sent to NHQ but they didn't accept them. Not really a problem but I thought I would try. I don't have any proof that I was ever a part of the wing CAC and that when I participated in the substitute program for IACE in 1966 that we were awarded the ribbon. It was in CAP News but has apparently been lost in the mists of time.

Where did you exchange to?  IACE was always something I wanted to do  but didn't have the opportunity to.  FWIW, there are copies of a large portion of CAP newsletters online.  It looks like all 12 editions from 1966 are at http://history.cap.gov/document/49
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"Fester," 1st Lt, CAP
Yeager Award - 18
Eaker Award - 96

TXWG CAC - 96 (Vice Chair), 97 (Chair)
Encampments (CAWG, TXWG, OKWG) - 93, 94, 95, 96 (x2), 97
Cicero
Seasoned Member

Posts: 232
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2018, 11:58:13 PM »

16 years ago next month (Mar 2018) I rejoined as a senior after 18 years out of the program. I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet and I could never find proof of my having been a C/Lt Col. I got the 1st Lt promotion but the credits described below did not exist at the time. I rejoined to payback the benefits I got from the cadet program.

I have proof - squadron newsletters and travel orders, can an Eaker be awarded after the fact?
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1st Encampment 1973
2nd Staff 1976
Mitchell 1976
Earhart 1976
Eaker 1977
1st Lt, CAP
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 714
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2018, 07:04:24 AM »

16 years ago next month (Mar 2018) I rejoined as a senior after 18 years out of the program. I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet and I could never find proof of my having been a C/Lt Col. I got the 1st Lt promotion but the credits described below did not exist at the time. I rejoined to payback the benefits I got from the cadet program.

I have proof - squadron newsletters and travel orders, can an Eaker be awarded after the fact?

Mine was. I received it in 1997, which was 25 years after I was promoted to C/LtCol.

I submitted my Form 66 and several documents and orders that showed that I was a C/LtCol. No problem at all - except the certificate was not numbered. Fair enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
GaryVC
Forum Regular

Posts: 140
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2018, 06:02:22 PM »


Where did you exchange to? 

There was no AF airlift available in 1966 so the regions (apparently) were on the hook to do something. In Pacific Region we went to San Francisco (never was sure why) and spent a few days at Vandenburg AFB.
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Fester
Member

Posts: 83

« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2018, 06:52:23 PM »


Where did you exchange to? 

There was no AF airlift available in 1966 so the regions (apparently) were on the hook to do something. In Pacific Region we went to San Francisco (never was sure why) and spent a few days at Vandenburg AFB.

Awesome.  VAFB is where I started my CAP cadet career.  When my dad was stationed there when I was in middle school.  Gorgeous part of Cali.
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"Fester," 1st Lt, CAP
Yeager Award - 18
Eaker Award - 96

TXWG CAC - 96 (Vice Chair), 97 (Chair)
Encampments (CAWG, TXWG, OKWG) - 93, 94, 95, 96 (x2), 97
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Rejoining after 20 years
 


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