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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: 69 Saves on One Mission
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Author Topic: 69 Saves on One Mission  (Read 3353 times)
Ohioguard
Recruit

Posts: 48

« on: January 23, 2018, 04:08:39 PM »

Did you know?! Civil Air Patrolís cell phone forensics teamís success in finding missing people, often in record time, attracts an increasing number of missions each year. To date the cell phone forensics team has conducted over 1,300 missions and saved 372 lives over the past 11 years.

The cell phone forensics team was just credited with 69 saves on one mission yesturday.  They help locate a missing boat off of the Bahamas.

I have been a member of this organization for 50 years, this has to be a record.


JCW
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grunt82abn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 219

« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 04:10:27 PM »

Did you know?! Civil Air Patrolís cell phone forensics teamís success in finding missing people, often in record time, attracts an increasing number of missions each year. To date the cell phone forensics team has conducted over 1,300 missions and saved 372 lives over the past 11 years.

The cell phone forensics team was just credited with 69 saves on one mission yesturday.  They help locate a missing boat off of the Bahamas.

I have been a member of this organization for 50 years, this has to be a record.


JCW
Thank you for sharing! Didnít even know we had a telephone forensics team


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Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,165

« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 05:09:00 PM »

The cell phone forensics team has been around since 2006.  Here's a chart of the team's stats for the last 11 years https://www.facebook.com/capnhq/posts/1747014905320790

Mike
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RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,950

« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 07:32:43 PM »

Really, they're getting about as many saves in a year as the entire organization used to do back in the heyday of Air SAR.  Might as well shut the rest of us down and let those folks take care of everything. 
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grunt82abn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 219

« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2018, 08:21:48 PM »

The cell phone forensics team has been around since 2006.  Here's a chart of the team's stats for the last 11 years https://www.facebook.com/capnhq/posts/1747014905320790

Mike
Thanks!


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Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,007

« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 09:38:31 PM »

Really, they're getting about as many saves in a year as the entire organization used to do back in the heyday of Air SAR.  Might as well shut the rest of us down and let those folks take care of everything.

Interesting question. Anyone have these stats?

Of all the cell phone forensics team saves:

A) How many times did they narrow it down to an area and then a CAP plane went and put an eyeball on it to guide the ground folks?

B) How many times did the cell phone forensics team narrow it down and then the local authorities (police, sheriff, etc.) went on the ground and put an eyeball on it?

C)  Of all the SARs CAP has done in the last few years since the cell team was formed, what percentage of searches could they NOT be used due to no cell phone pings from anyone in the plane?

I'm guessing someone must be compiling these stats somewhere. It could change our future.
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,594

« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2018, 12:35:54 AM »

Really, they're getting about as many saves in a year as the entire organization used to do back in the heyday of Air SAR.  Might as well shut the rest of us down and let those folks take care of everything.
River......sometimes you can be so toxic.   We are part of a team.  :(
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Geber
Recruit

Posts: 34
Unit: NER-VT-009

« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2018, 11:37:10 AM »

I read etodd's post, and the number I wondered about were how many of these finds or saves were incidents that would have been handled strictly by local authorities and never have come to CAP's attention if we didn't have a cell forensics team?

I also wonder what the path is from the point an incident occurs to the point the CAP cell forensics team starts working. Is it only avation-related incidents? Is the CAP cell forensics team the go-to resource for local authorities, or are there other teams that are usually called and calling CAP is out of the ordinary? As an EMT, I've responded to a number of calls where the exact location was uncertain, and my impression is that our state police dispatchers contact the phone company for cell forensics. (But I've never sat down with the state police and had this explained to me, it's just an impression from snippets of radio traffic.)
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sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,165

« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 03:40:20 PM »

Quote
I wondered about were how many of these finds or saves were incidents that would have been handled strictly by local authorities and never have come to CAP's attention if we didn't have a cell forensics team?
Most of them. Last year, about 12% of the missions (not finds or saves) worked by the cell team also involved the CAP wing in which the incident occurred.

Quote
I also wonder what the path is from the point an incident occurs to the point the CAP cell forensics team starts working. Is it only aviation-related incidents?
The cell team can only be activated through AFRCC, which has the authority to request the data. Every state has an MOU with AFRCC that describes which agencies can request missions through them. The team is not only for aviation related incidents, just 16% of the missions last year were for missing aircraft. The cell team also assists the Coast Guard with its searches.

Last year our wing had 19 AFRCC SAR missions, while the cell team was requested by law enforcement 37 times for missions that didnít involve the wing. Our state averages around 1600 SAR calls a year, so those are small numbers. My county SAR team (Iím one of the coordinators) had 164 calls in 2017. We use cell phone data, but have never requested the cell phone team. An adjoining county has used the team a couple of times.

Quote
Is the CAP cell forensics team the go-to resource for local authorities, or are there other teams that are usually called and calling CAP is out of the ordinary?
Yes, the cell team is the go-to group for detailed forensics. The CAP team canít be used for criminal cases, and there are law enforcement specialists that perform similar work.

Quote
my impression is that our state police dispatchers contact the phone company for cell forensics.
Law enforcement can request data from the cell carriers. The carriers donít really do forensics, they just provide the data. It can be coordinates, which may be of the tower, not the phone, or it may be a range and bearing off a tower. There is a tolerance on both the range and the bearing. A problem can arise if a local agency requests the data, then decides they need help from the CAP team. It may not be able to get any data from the carrier because the carrier started the process with the local agency.

The cell phone team gives a presentation at the CAP Summer Boards every year. The presentation from last year is on the national website.

Mike
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RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,950

« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2018, 05:57:32 PM »

Really, they're getting about as many saves in a year as the entire organization used to do back in the heyday of Air SAR.  Might as well shut the rest of us down and let those folks take care of everything.
River......sometimes you can be so toxic.   We are part of a team.  :(
Yep, and the cell phone team is the most productive part of the team these days.  I wasn't being sarcastic, if thats what you thought. 

I'm all about the SAR, whether air or ground, but the fact is that our air SAR mission is withering away for various reasons discussed elsewhere and CAP just isn't really into recruiting, training, and promoting ourselves for ground SAR even though there are probably hundreds of CAP units in counties without any formal SAR teams at all and where we could be the go-to GSAR resource if we tried.  Of all our ES missions GSAR is the one (outside of the cell phone team) where there are demonstrated needs at the local level (in many, but certainly not all, places) that we just aren't trying to fill. 
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N6RVT
Member

Posts: 74
Unit: PCR-CA-080

« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 07:37:27 PM »

Did you know?! Civil Air Patrolís cell phone forensics teamís success in finding missing people, often in record time, attracts an increasing number of missions each year. To date the cell phone forensics team has conducted over 1,300 missions and saved 372 lives over the past 11 years. The cell phone forensics team was just credited with 69 saves on one mission yesturday.  They help locate a missing boat off of the Bahamas.

I'd like to know just how they do this.  It has to be something more than just knowing where a cell phone was last used.
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Dwight J. Dutton, CPT USA (RET)
CAPT CAP, Mitchell 1975 (before numbers)
UWONGO2
Member

Posts: 84

« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 07:57:47 PM »

Most of them. Last year, about 12% of the missions (not finds or saves) worked by the cell team also involved the CAP wing in which the incident occurred.

Is there a report somewhere that details all this, or did you just spend a lot of fun time in WMIRS doing the math?
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Shieldel
Member

Posts: 86
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 08:57:07 PM »

Quote
I wondered about were how many of these finds or saves were incidents that would have been handled strictly by local authorities and never have come to CAP's attention if we didn't have a cell forensics team?
Most of them. Last year, about 12% of the missions (not finds or saves) worked by the cell team also involved the CAP wing in which the incident occurred.

Quote
I also wonder what the path is from the point an incident occurs to the point the CAP cell forensics team starts working. Is it only aviation-related incidents?
The cell team can only be activated through AFRCC, which has the authority to request the data. Every state has an MOU with AFRCC that describes which agencies can request missions through them. The team is not only for aviation related incidents, just 16% of the missions last year were for missing aircraft. The cell team also assists the Coast Guard with its searches.

Last year our wing had 19 AFRCC SAR missions, while the cell team was requested by law enforcement 37 times for missions that didnít involve the wing. Our state averages around 1600 SAR calls a year, so those are small numbers. My county SAR team (Iím one of the coordinators) had 164 calls in 2017. We use cell phone data, but have never requested the cell phone team. An adjoining county has used the team a couple of times.

Quote
Is the CAP cell forensics team the go-to resource for local authorities, or are there other teams that are usually called and calling CAP is out of the ordinary?
Yes, the cell team is the go-to group for detailed forensics. The CAP team canít be used for criminal cases, and there are law enforcement specialists that perform similar work.

Quote
my impression is that our state police dispatchers contact the phone company for cell forensics.
Law enforcement can request data from the cell carriers. The carriers donít really do forensics, they just provide the data. It can be coordinates, which may be of the tower, not the phone, or it may be a range and bearing off a tower. There is a tolerance on both the range and the bearing. A problem can arise if a local agency requests the data, then decides they need help from the CAP team. It may not be able to get any data from the carrier because the carrier started the process with the local agency.

The cell phone team gives a presentation at the CAP Summer Boards every year. The presentation from last year is on the national website.

Mike

Law enforcement specialists can't do anything without a warrant. It's not like they can just go into a phone's GPS and grab the location. They've got red tape and internal procedure to deal with.

But what do I know. I'm always bitter when it comes to ES because I'm in a part of a state that never gets called out. I PLAY SAR at exercises. NEVER been on actual AFAM in my 7 years of CAP. I'd like to use my training at some point!
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2d Lt Michael D. Scheidle
Jack Schofield Cadet Squadron
NV-802nd ES Officer
NV-802nd RRO
NV-802nd PAO
FEMA Corps Class 23 Alumni - FEMA-4277-DR-LA Deployment to Baton Rouge FEMA JFO August - October 2016
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,007

« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2018, 09:39:12 PM »


 I PLAY SAR at exercises. NEVER been on actual AFAM in my 7 years of CAP. I'd like to use my training at some point!


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Al Sayre
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,514
Unit: SER-MS-001

Mississippi Wing
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2018, 10:56:51 AM »

Snip

But what do I know. I'm always bitter when it comes to ES because I'm in a part of a state that never gets called out. I PLAY SAR at exercises. NEVER been on actual AFAM in my 7 years of CAP. I'd like to use my training at some point!

SAR and DR training is like an insurance policy, we need to have it, but hope we never get to use it.  Be glad you don't get called out.  That means no big disasters happened in your area, nobody crashed their airplane or sank their boat and spent time suffering waiting to be rescued, no lost/sick people had to be found etc.  Actual SAR/DR missions aren't fun.  They are time critical and mean someone is suffering.
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Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,000
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2018, 11:45:04 AM »

Snip

But what do I know. I'm always bitter when it comes to ES because I'm in a part of a state that never gets called out. I PLAY SAR at exercises. NEVER been on actual AFAM in my 7 years of CAP. I'd like to use my training at some point!

SAR and DR training is like an insurance policy, we need to have it, but hope we never get to use it.  Be glad you don't get called out.  That means no big disasters happened in your area, nobody crashed their airplane or sank their boat and spent time suffering waiting to be rescued, no lost/sick people had to be found etc.  Actual SAR/DR missions aren't fun.  They are time critical and mean someone is suffering.

Over the years, two of the actual missions I've been on included incidents where responders died (two CAP pilots in FLWG, 1991, a dog handler in the Appalachians, 1998) and several where people were injured.

So, if we can work smarter not harder and apply the Sherlock Holmes skills to perform EW analysis and avoid or minimize putting people in the field, I am all supportive of that. Civil Analysis Patrol - I salute them.

V/r
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sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,165

« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2018, 02:23:45 PM »

Most of them. Last year, about 12% of the missions (not finds or saves) worked by the cell team also involved the CAP wing in which the incident occurred.

Is there a report somewhere that details all this, or did you just spend a lot of fun time in WMIRS doing the math?
The data come from WMIRS and I'm working on a report, though the focus is not on cell phone forensics.

Quote
Law enforcement specialists can't do anything without a warrant. It's not like they can just go into a phone's GPS and grab the location. They've got red tape and internal procedure to deal with.
CAP cell phone forensics doesn't access the phone. It uses data provided obtained IAW 18 U.S.C. ß 2702, which states that a carrier may voluntarily release data "To a Federal, State, or local governmental entity, if the provider, in good faith, believes that an emergency involving danger of death or serious physical injury to any person requires disclosure without delay of communications relating to the emergency," the term is "exigent circumstances." That's why AFRCC or the Coast Guard must request the data.

Mike
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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 644

« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2018, 04:19:49 AM »

That means no big disasters happened in your area, nobody crashed their airplane or sank their boat and spent time suffering waiting to be rescued, no lost/sick people had to be found etc.

Except where those things are happening and agencies other than CAP are requested to respond. Look at the stats sardak provided, only looking at the search and rescue missions reported to the AFRCC because a CAP resource was requested (which I suspect is a very small percentage of the searches run nationwide), 88% of the searches we know about didn't involve our aircraft or ground teams. Somebody went out there and found the folks and it wasn't us. Hard to maintain a commitment to training when you know the missions are happening in your area but the call will never come because of politics way outside your control.

I wonder what would happen if NHQ added a policy that the cell phone forensics team could only provide their analysis to a CAP IC, meaning when you requested the cell phone team, you also got the air and ground assets we have who would act on the data. Would agencies stop calling or would they begrudgingly accept the whole package? It's also worth asking if our ground teams and air crews could handle an 88% increase in missions.
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RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,950

« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2018, 07:36:29 AM »

Hard to maintain a commitment to training when you know the missions are happening in your area but the call will never come because of politics way outside your control.

Politics is probably the lease important factor.

I believe that except for a very few states in the western US that have extremely high numbers of local independent or county-sponsored SAR teams and maybe a few states that really do exclude CAP for some reason, the reason that CAP doesn't get called for most SAR missions is that almost all of them are ground SAR missions and we are just not seen as being a resource for those missions and so we don't get called.

Why aren't we seen as a resource?  Because we don't go out and pound the streets to let the county sheriffs, local emergency managers, and city police departments know what we can do and what we have available.  This is the primary job of squadron ES officers.  I'd argue, that in line with this thread, letting them know of the cell phone forensics team's capabilities would be item number 1 in any discussions with these folks.  Unfortunately, this sort of outreach is rarely encouraged. 

The second reason we don't get called is that in most cases the only resource of significant benefit that we can offer to local officials on relatively short notice is a search plane.  The sad fact is that most squadrons just don't have a capable ground team at all, much less enough qualified members to have a chance of guaranteeing that X number of people are going to be available at just about any time.  Now, we can certainly bring together (in most places) several dozen ground team members in most states by pooling folks from around the Wing, but that is probably going to take 24 hours or more to mobilize and most cases are resolved by then. 

Why don't we have a real GSAR capability in most squadrons?  Because the organization does not make it a priority to recruit and train adults for this activity.  We depend on cadets for ground work and I just don't think most sherrifs are impressed if you can offer a ground team with a retired guy and 5 kids from your local unit.  You're going to need 15-20 trained adults to have a good shot at guaranteeing a response from a squadron and that is probably rarer than unicorns among CAP units.  I personally think it is possible that a determined unit could develop this capability and develop the relationships that are needed to ensure that you'd get a call when appropriate. 


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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,007

« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2018, 10:09:44 AM »

We've had these discussions before. Lots of regional differences. For example, here in my area, the police have 2 helicopters and the Sheriff has 1 and also a C-182. If a plane is reported down by our local ATC tower folks, or a missing person, etc., there is a good chance a helicopter is already airborne and can start looking immediately. Shaving a couple hours of CAP folks actually getting airborne. When the local folks 'give up', is when they then call AFRCC.

Which is why our squadron sees more AP missions than SAR.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 10:45:22 AM by etodd » Logged
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: 69 Saves on One Mission
 


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