Approvers for new CPPT

[jeders]

What duty positions at the unit level are able to approve completion of the new CPPT courses? I am the Deputy Commander for Cadets, Admin, Personnel, and Testing officers and I also have temporary commander's permissions and I am unable to approve completion of the new CPPT for the squadron CC, but I am able to input the completion of the in-person discussion.

[CS]

Wing Commander  is the approver for Squadron CC unless there are Groups.

[Eclipse]

At last pass, it appeared that >all< approvals were going direct to the wing CC, and (no one else).  At least this was
the case in the first days.

[Paul Creed III]

I was able to approve my deputy commander for cadets as the squadron commander.

[Eclipse]

I was able to approve my deputy commander for cadets as the squadron commander.

Fully?  Including advanced?

Could be because we're assigned at Group, buy my CC should have been able to approve me, and then
wing CC approve him.  As it happened, we were able to approve each other for the online test,
but the summary conversation for both of us went direct and only to the Wing CC, and then
my advanced went to the Wing CC direct as well.  (I am a Group CD).

[Paul Creed III]

Yep, fully for both.

[Ned]

The approval process for the new Cadet Protection Basic Course for seniors is fairly straightforward, but sometimes the terminology can be a little confusing.

Once a senior has reviewed the course material (usually in a classroom setting initially) and completed the on-line quiz, the next requirement is to have a "summary conversation" with one of the eight or so designated folks (CC, DCS, PDO, Deputy commander(s), wing DCP, wing Director of Personnel, or a vice commander).  Those leaders can then go to their LMS page and "sign off" the summary conversation for the student.

When that occurs, a request for approval will pop up on the unit commander's dashboard.  Once the commander checks it off, the process is complete and the student will get a message that the course has been completed and it will show up on the student's training quals in eServices.

It can be easy to confuse the summary conversation sign-off with the commander's approval.  Both are required to complete the course.

Does that help?

Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Officer

[ProdigalJim]

The approval process for the new Cadet Protection Basic Course for seniors is fairly straightforward, but sometimes the terminology can be a little confusing.

Once a senior has reviewed the course material (usually in a classroom setting initially) and completed the on-line quiz, the next requirement is to have a "summary conversation" with one of the eight or so designated folks (CC, DCS, PDO, Deputy commander(s), wing DCP, wing Director of Personnel, or a vice commander).  Those leaders can then go to their LMS page and "sign off" the summary conversation for the student.

When that occurs, a request for approval will pop up on the unit commander's dashboard.  Once the commander checks it off, the process is complete and the student will get a message that the course has been completed and it will show up on the student's training quals in eServices.

It can be easy to confuse the summary conversation sign-off with the commander's approval.  Both are required to complete the course.

Does that help?

Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Officer

Ned,

That's not confusing. What's confusing is that you approve the summary conversation in the LMS module, and then you approve the advanced course completion in the LMS section of Commander's Corner. Two different places to approve two different phases of the same program.

Can anyone say..."fizzbin"?

[ProdigalJim]

Like this...

http://youtu.be/v77SF4TFUoM

[Ned]

Ned,

That's not confusing. What's confusing is that you approve the summary conversation in the LMS module, and then you approve the advanced course completion in the LMS section of Commander's Corner. Two different places to approve two different phases of the same program.

I'm not sure I understand your question.

The universe of  "summary conversation approvers" is a medium-big bag of leaders who can sign off members for the summary conversation required for the Basic Course.  These approvers simply use the "Mentor / Skill Eval" module on their LMS screen to do so.  "Commanders" are on the list of approvers, but the great majority of approvers are not commanders.  Thus most approvers (like me, for instance) only have a single place to go to when approving summary conversations.  Again, this seems pretty straightforward and as simple as anything can be in the digital age.


Commanders, of course, have the permissions needed to both sign off a summary conversation as well as approve completion of the advance course.  But as we all know, commanders are a special case and rarely get confused.   

What am I missing?

[Tim Medeiros]

For those not in the know, the Commanders Corner approval module is just a bunch of links to the applicable restricted applications approvals modules (promotions, transfers, opsqals, transfers, etc).  There isn't a "true" approvals module in Commanders Corner.  I just entered the summary conversation, and resulting approval, for one of my members yesterday, all of this was done inside LMS.

[jeders]

Ned,

That's not confusing. What's confusing is that you approve the summary conversation in the LMS module, and then you approve the advanced course completion in the LMS section of Commander's Corner. Two different places to approve two different phases of the same program.

I'm not sure I understand your question.

The universe of  "summary conversation approvers" is a medium-big bag of leaders who can sign off members for the summary conversation required for the Basic Course.  These approvers simply use the "Mentor / Skill Eval" module on their LMS screen to do so.  "Commanders" are on the list of approvers, but the great majority of approvers are not commanders.  Thus most approvers (like me, for instance) only have a single place to go to when approving summary conversations.  Again, this seems pretty straightforward and as simple as anything can be in the digital age.


Commanders, of course, have the permissions needed to both sign off a summary conversation as well as approve completion of the advance course.  But as we all know, commanders are a special case and rarely get confused.   

What am I missing?

The problem, at least that I started this because of, is that there is 1) no indication to the student that the commander has to approve completion of the basic and advanced course, and 2) no indication of who approves completion for a commander. This also brings up the question of why does the commander have to approve completion? Isn't the fact that the member completed the online course and quiz as well as the summary conversation sufficient?

[lordmonar]

Ned,

That's not confusing. What's confusing is that you approve the summary conversation in the LMS module, and then you approve the advanced course completion in the LMS section of Commander's Corner. Two different places to approve two different phases of the same program.

I'm not sure I understand your question.

The universe of  "summary conversation approvers" is a medium-big bag of leaders who can sign off members for the summary conversation required for the Basic Course.  These approvers simply use the "Mentor / Skill Eval" module on their LMS screen to do so.  "Commanders" are on the list of approvers, but the great majority of approvers are not commanders.  Thus most approvers (like me, for instance) only have a single place to go to when approving summary conversations.  Again, this seems pretty straightforward and as simple as anything can be in the digital age.


Commanders, of course, have the permissions needed to both sign off a summary conversation as well as approve completion of the advance course.  But as we all know, commanders are a special case and rarely get confused.   

What am I missing?

The problem, at least that I started this because of, is that there is 1) no indication to the student that the commander has to approve completion of the basic and advanced course, and 2) no indication of who approves completion for a commander. This also brings up the question of why does the commander have to approve completion? Isn't the fact that the member completed the online course and quiz as well as the summary conversation sufficient?

It is in the LMS instructions. 

"Senior Leadership Summary Conversation (Seniors)

The Senior Leadership must enter completion of the summary conversation to receive credit for the Cadet Protection Basic Course."

[jeders]

You're confusing the summary conversation with course approval.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Maybe I am confused, but why should a student know the commander has to approve completion?

The student completes it, it is not approved so the student talks to his PD officer who starts a conversation.

Will the student do the class differently if he/she knows the commander will know? No? Then why does the student has to know?

[Storm Chaser]

Don't forget that, when it comes to this course, the commander, deputy commander, PDO, etc. are "students" too. Many of us definitely need to know how this new process works.

[Eclipse]

Maybe I am confused, but why should a student know the commander has to approve completion?

Because otherwise people will take the online quiz thinking they are done, and then on July 1st find themselves standing
at the gate for an NCSA with a summary conversation and another class to do, with their CC on vacation in Prague.

Also this:

Don't forget that, when it comes to this course, the commander, deputy commander, PDO, etc. are "students" too. Many of us definitely need to know how this new process works.

[MacGruff]

Part of the confusion may come because of the various delays that can plague the "system".

In my case, during this past week's meeting, several of us got together to do the Summary Conversation together. I'm the unit PDO and I also had the Deputy Commander for Seniors in the discussion as well as two new members who are working through their Level 1. (On a side note, this group conversation was very good and I will do them this way in the future. Much more thought-provoking and information sharing than the previous method of working through the two scenarios, but I digress). Following the discussion, I put in the summary conversation completion in LMS for the three members outside of myself, while the Deputy Commander acted as my mentor and put the summary conversation in for me.

Now, LMS shows that we've all completed each of the three parts of the new program. Doing the reading, taking the quiz, and having the summary conversation.

However, under the Training area, and even in LMS in some places, it shows the CPBT (new acronym) as "incomplete". The issue, of course, is that the Squadron Commander has not yet approved the completion, but this is potentially confusing.

Not having had a chance to discuss this with the Commander yet, I do not know if he cannot yet approve the training for the rest of us since he has not finished it yet. Perhaps Ned or Tim would know? Most likely, he's just too busy to have gotten around to approving these and they will be done in the next few days.

[jeders]

Not having had a chance to discuss this with the Commander yet, I do not know if he cannot yet approve the training for the rest of us since he has not finished it yet. Perhaps Ned or Tim would know? Most likely, he's just too busy to have gotten around to approving these and they will be done in the next few days.

I took the training before my commander and was the first one through. He was able to approve my completion without having done the training yet, so your commander probably just hasn't had a chance to go into eServices yet.

[Ned]

Thank you for the feedback.

To minimize confusion about the Cadet Protection Basic Course summary conversation, you will now find the Summary Conversation Document in Lesson 3: Leadership Summary Conversation of the Cadet Protection Basic Course in the Learning Management System.  We've also added more clarifying information on the Cadet Protection page, just follow the "summary conversation" link.  Once a trainer documents the summary conversation in LMS it's simply approved by the member's commander and appears in eServices.

We've also added a "walk-through" for mentors since LMS can sometimes seem less than user-friendly.

And in terms of "why do commanders have to approve the course completion?" question, it is our understanding that the process is the same for every course taken in LMS.  They all appear on the commanders' dashboards for approval.  IOW, it's an "LMS thing," not a CPT thing.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Officer

[jeders]

Thank you for the feedback.

To minimize confusion about the Cadet Protection Basic Course summary conversation, you will now find the Summary Conversation Document in Lesson 3: Leadership Summary Conversation of the Cadet Protection Basic Course in the Learning Management System.  We've also added more clarifying information on the Cadet Protection page, just follow the "summary conversation" link.  Once a trainer documents the summary conversation in LMS it's simply approved by the member's commander and appears in eServices.

We've also added a "walk-through" for mentors since LMS can sometimes seem less than user-friendly.

Thank you.

And in terms of "why do commanders have to approve the course completion?" question, it is our understanding that the process is the same for every course taken in LMS.  They all appear on the commanders' dashboards for approval.  IOW, it's an "LMS thing," not a CPT thing.

It's must be a new LMS thing, because I've taken other LMS courses (some within the last couple of months) and don't recall commander approval being required for any of them. When I was done they just popped into my record.

[Storm Chaser]

+1.  I've never seen this before either.

[MacGruff]

Thanks Ned, but I think something is actually wrong.

I went into e-services a few minutes ago and looked up all four people's records:
- None of us show it as being passed in Member Search - Training report
- For me and the Deputy Commander for Seniors, our LMS entry shows a course listed as CPBT and when entered, it shows three green checkmarks.
- Clicking on past results for the two of us, shows CPBT as "Not Completed".
- Even more funny, the two new members who are going through Level 1 have it showing in LMS as completed, but when you click on Past Results, it shows the neither the reading nor the quiz were done and does not even have a line for the summary conversation.

I suspect that something is definitely not lined up in e-services at the moment.

P.S. - I touched base with the Squadron Commander and he has not received any e-services requests to approve anything for the four of us...

[Storm Chaser]

I got a CPBC pending e-mail for one of my SQ/CCs. After I approved in LMS, I got another e-mail indicating so. I checked the Member Search Training tab and the training is showing. I also got an e-mail indicating that my CPBC was pending WG/CC approval. So far, so good.

[Tim Medeiros]

Thank you for the feedback.

To minimize confusion about the Cadet Protection Basic Course summary conversation, you will now find the Summary Conversation Document in Lesson 3: Leadership Summary Conversation of the Cadet Protection Basic Course in the Learning Management System.  We've also added more clarifying information on the Cadet Protection page, just follow the "summary conversation" link.  Once a trainer documents the summary conversation in LMS it's simply approved by the member's commander and appears in eServices.

We've also added a "walk-through" for mentors since LMS can sometimes seem less than user-friendly.

And in terms of "why do commanders have to approve the course completion?" question, it is our understanding that the process is the same for every course taken in LMS.  They all appear on the commanders' dashboards for approval.  IOW, it's an "LMS thing," not a CPT thing.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Officer

Ned,

None of my other LMS courses have required CC approval, absolutely none.  Only approvals I've ever had come up as a commander (other than CPBC and CPAC) are the ones for level 1.

[Ned]

Hmmm.  Checking with the LMS crew.  Will advise.

[MacGruff]

Interesting.

Almost exactly one hour after I posted my last in this topic, I received an email that my CPBT was in "pending" status. Later that evening, the squadron commander got the email that he has to validate the training for all four of us. Today, we all have it showing up in Member Search reports.

In other words, whatever was "clogging" the system, has been unclogged.

Maybe it was purely a coincidence, but I would rather thank Ned and Tim Madeiros for their help!   

[Eclipse]

[Storm Chaser]

Interesting. When I entered the summary conversation for a unit member, it went to the unit commander for approval. When I entered the summary conversation for a group member, it was approved right away.

[stixco1]

My Group Commander entered my summary conversation, it still went to unit CC for approval.

[Ned]

OK, as of today commander approval is no longer required for the Basic course.  It will show up as completed as soon as both the quiz and summary conversation are entered.

As an additional note, persons taking the basic course in a classroom situation do not require the Summary Conversation if the presenter is a person authorized to sign off the summcom.  The theory is that the summary conversation contents will actually be covered during the class. (The presenter just signs off everyone in the class.)

Commander approval will still be required for the advanced course.

Better?

[Storm Chaser]

Well, mine is still not showing. An e-mail was sent to the wing commander for approval and I guess now it needs to be approved. The training shows as completed in LMS, but it's not showing in the Member Search Training tab.

[jeders]

OK, as of today commander approval is no longer required for the Basic course.  It will show up as completed as soon as both the quiz and summary conversation are entered.

As an additional note, persons taking the basic course in a classroom situation do not require the Summary Conversation if the presenter is a person authorized to sign off the summcom.  The theory is that the summary conversation contents will actually be covered during the class. (The presenter just signs off everyone in the class.)

Commander approval will still be required for the advanced course.

Better?

Much, it just makes sense.

[Ned]

All:

I need to clarify one of my earlier responses in this or the other thread:

When using the classroom format to present the Cadet Protection Basic Course, the instructor simply completes a Form 11 (Senior Membership PD Report) and mails / faxes it to NHQ using the address / number on the form.

This is described in the Lesson Plan for the training.

Restated, instructors should not try to go on-line and try to enter summary conversations / completions / etc. in LMS.  That will simply generate an error message since (most) students will not have enrolled in the course through LMS.

Just use the F11.

Sorry for my confusing responses here and elsewhere.  I am still an LMS noob.

[MacGruff]

I can confirm Ned's words. If you use the Classroom setting for getting your Senior Members through the Basic portion of the training, you will not be able to use LMS to give them the credit for it, and you should use Form 11 and send it in to NHQ.