Missing Boy Scout

[A.Member]

He means that if we hype the medial aspect of everything we do and the public gets the wrong impression of what are actual capabilities are...then we look like fools when some other wing has to tell his DR/SAR coordinator that no CAP can't support his request.

That's exactly right.

[lordmonar]

It would be nice to buy some more toys but other then that what would more (except FLIRS and other toys) would you ask for as far as ES goes?

Well, I know squadrons in my own wing without DF equipment and a poster in another thread said that they had an entire group with no CAP-owned DF equipment at all.  NHQ is starting to come through on comms, but thats about it. 

Okay I'll buy that....however....I wonder if the poster ever checked with his wing to see if there were any assets out there?  Or if they knew there was a requirment for the equipment at the squadorn level.

There may not be any in the "group"  But 10 of the 20 squadrons in that group may have the "group's" equipment....or not.

But if the squadorn does not elevate the requirment to wing....wing does not put the request into national who does not ask the USAF who does not ask congress and we end up with no ELPERs at squadron X.

But that is nickel and dime....my question to Earhart1917 is what missions is CAP not able to do because of lack of funds?  Has a wing ever said "we can't do the ELT mission because there are no ELPERS?" or "We can't fly this mission due to lack of trained crews, working aircraft, radios...etc".

Earhart has griped in the past about lack of funds...but could they be really used?

Sure...it would be nice to have some high dollar items to make us more effective and sure we could do with a ELPER refreashe seeing as how the little LPER is getting hard to support and the new one is now on the market.  Sure we could use some more training money to get more people and Member Owned aircraft involved in SAREXs.  But my experince here is NVWG is that we have just about the right amount of money.  We do one big SAREX a month, flying 3 sorites per aircraft in one day and send out some ground crews.  We never have a problem getting the crews positons filled and we have never refused a mission.

As I told here before....we get money based on the level of mission....not the other way around.  We could ask for mone money up-front to increase our capability but that is procurement dollars not O&M funds.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Personally, I think its great that we had ANY role.

And, for what its worth, I think our light airlift capability is one of the most overlooked aspects of our ES mission.

Consider:

--  An anthrax epidemic breaks out in a major city as a result of the bio terror weapons that were in Iraq but managed to get out before we got there.  Could CAP be used to fly large amounts of antibiotics into the area quickly from several divergent locations?  YES!

--  A National Guard unit is alerted for a local disaster.  But many of its members are out of town or even out of state.  Could a CAP airlift bring the Guard unit up to strength within hours?  YES.

--  An Air Force plane makes a precautionary landing at a civilian airport, and inspection shows that a repair part that is needed is not on hand locally.  Could a CAP plane fly a part and maybe an extra mechanic to the downed AF plane and allow it to resume its mission in a matter rof hours?  YES.

[wingnut]

Guys I felt so guilty about the same 6 guys doing al the ELT hunts on the ground in So Cal that I purchased a modern well built DF unit for $350, I would have paid one thousand to help, yet many that I talk to are spending hundreds to wear uniforms 3 pairs of combat boots, BDUs to wear to an air show. My point is maybe the units should "Reassess" their committment, what CAP stands for, "WE NEED A HOME MAKEOVER". Have you seen the NAtional membership numbers? we have lost another 2,000 CAP members

[Earhart1971]

No...we should be all over this like professionals doing a job.  We are part of a team. 

Yep.

It is when we toot our horn too much is when we look like posers.

...and the last thing you want or need in that situation is to be caught with your pants down.

Can you explain, your comment a little further?

Not being caught with our pants down?

What?

He means that if we hype the medial aspect of everything we do and the public gets the wrong impression of what are actual capabilities are...then we look like fools when some other wing has to tell his DR/SAR coordinator that no CAP can't support his request.

We supported the effort.....lets leave it at that take pride in the fact that we contributed in some way to a save and move on to the next task.  We are being funded by congress just fine as far as I can tell.  It would be nice to buy some more toys but other then that what would more (except FLIRS and other toys) would you ask for as far as ES goes?

No, lets not leave it at that.  A National Story, and we have information Officers that cannot get our story out.

Its a rumor, nobody knows we contributed, and it hurts the organization to go on with this mentality.

You guys are mistaking hype, for the total non entity CAP has become, we do not exist, we are totally invisible.

It affects our mission, if affects our funding, and keeps us small.

Disagree strongly, to this thinking.

We got no public exposure.

How many kids age 16 or 17 have come up to me over the years and they would have loved to have known about CAP and joined, only if they had known we existed, and what we do.

Its worse now then ever, in the 70s and 80s more people knew something about Civil Air Patrol.

[isuhawkeye]

exposure is a wonderful thing. but from a purley operational perspective all press releases needed to go through the incident JIC. 

also think about how many other agencies helped with this opperation.  why not put our pio effort behind finds like the recent downed aircraft where we played a major role.

[lordmonar]

No, lets not leave it at that.  A National Story, and we have information Officers that cannot get our story out.

Its a rumor, nobody knows we contributed, and it hurts the organization to go on with this mentality.

You guys are mistaking hype, for the total non entity CAP has become, we do not exist, we are totally invisible.

It affects our mission, if affects our funding, and keeps us small.

Disagree strongly, to this thinking.

We got no public exposure.

How many kids age 16 or 17 have come up to me over the years and they would have loved to have known about CAP and joined, only if they had known we existed, and what we do.

Its worse now then ever, in the 70s and 80s more people knew something about Civil Air Patrol.

With the disparity of capabilities between the different state wings....a national level media push would do more harm than good.

Locally (state level) we should be pushing our capabilities to every county sheriff, fire department, state park, National park and the national guard.  We should be selling our capabilities to every agency that even looks like they me be involved in SAR/DR up to and including the red cross and the salvation army.

At the squadron level we should be pushing our units existence in each and every place our target audience hangs out.

You can't blame the fact that the young people in your own town do not know about CAP on National.

But we can easily look like fools if we try to exaggerate our importance in high profile missions.  First it may look like we are stealing the glory from the real stars which will not improve our relationship with them.  Second, what one wing is capable of doing does not equate across the board.  If NCWG can do Archer Ops because the have the G-2 right there in state does not mean that NVWG can do the same.

Again capabilities are sold at the wing level not national.

Finally no matter how much hype national gives us....it will not help us if we are not competent in the eyes of our local SAR authorities.

Quite Professionalism.  We release our won PAO reports and provide them to wings to sell their own capabilities.

As far as local recruiting goes.....you can recruit as many cadets as you want...you just have to go out and recruit.  Every weekend at every venue you can think of.  The mall, school, churches, boy scout meetings, girl scout meetings, city council meetings, airport business meetings, town halls, movies, parades, home coming, there is no end to the places you can get out with a big sign and two cadets in uniform hand out contact cards.

[Earhart1971]

Lordmonar,

Let me ask you, do you really believe what you just posted?

Or are you just trying to be contrarian for the sake of this blog.

National exposure is good, and your arguments, while you are entitled to your opinion, keep CAP small.

Yeah, I can recruit people, thats not an issue, we all can.

But having to explain exactly from ZERO (what we do) all the time wears on us, don't you think it would help if we had National exposure - free exposure in the media, the kind of exposure that would cost millions in ad costs, if we had to pay for it.

It sounds like our Aircraft and Technology was used, however nobody knows exactly how we helped, at least not in the National Media.

[lordmonar]

Lordmonar,

Let me ask you, do you really believe what you just posted?

Or are you just trying to be contrarian for the sake of this blog.

National exposure is good, and your arguments, while you are entitled to your opinion, keep CAP small.

Yeah, I can recruit people, thats not an issue, we all can.

But having to explain exactly from ZERO (what we do) all the time wears on us, don't you think it would help if we had National exposure - free exposure in the media, the kind of exposure that would cost millions in ad costs, if we had to pay for it.

It sounds like our Aircraft and Technology was used, however nobody knows exactly how we helped, at least not in the National Media.

National exposure is good...never said otherwise.  But we need to do it intelligently.  There are many more greater problems in CAP than the fact that half the non SAR community does not know who we are.  It is our reputation with the SAR community we need to concentrate on and that is BEST done at the wing level.

We run a real risk of jeopardizing our relationship if we hype our activities too much.  It seems that NC knows CAP and used them in an appropriate manner.  I read a news blerp that fixed wing air craft were not being used because the powers that be did not think they were the right platform.  But they did see we would be helpful moving equipment around the search areas. 

So...we take the appropriate kudos....let the appropriate agencies who we are and what we do then press on.

Low key is the way to go for ES.

[A.Member]

lordmonar:

Are you me?  Because your last two posts are almost exactly what I would've said.  I guess and I can just put my feet up and relax - no since in risking carpal tunnel.

[Earhart1971]

Lordmonar,

Let me ask you, do you really believe what you just posted?

Or are you just trying to be contrarian for the sake of this blog.

National exposure is good, and your arguments, while you are entitled to your opinion, keep CAP small.

Yeah, I can recruit people, thats not an issue, we all can.

But having to explain exactly from ZERO (what we do) all the time wears on us, don't you think it would help if we had National exposure - free exposure in the media, the kind of exposure that would cost millions in ad costs, if we had to pay for it.

National exposure is good...never said otherwise.

But we need to do it intelligently.  There are many more greater problems in CAP than the fact that half the non SAR community does not know who we are.  It is our reputation with the SAR community we need to concentrate on and that is BEST done at the wing level.

We run a real risk of jeopardizing our relationship if we hype our activities too much.  It
Low key is the way to go for ES.

You're right, CAP is full of problems and this is one of them.

Needing to manage our exposure intelligently?

There is NOTHING to manage, its almost funny, and pathetic at the same time, we have no exposure

What HYPE are you talking about?

I want an example of it.

[davedove]

I think the real problem would be playing up CAP's capabilities too much.

For instance, "Oh yeah, we can do X, Y, and Z for you."

"Well, we can't do X right now because our plane is grounded."

"Well, we didn't think you would need Y so soon.  We're still developing the team to do that."

"Well, normally we could do Z, but the guy who does that for us is on vacation in Europe right now."

In other words, don't play up the elements that we do occasionally, or can only do when the equipment is available.  Focus on what we do regularyl and do well.

[Earhart1971]

I think the real problem would be playing up CAP's capabilities too much.

For instance, "Oh yeah, we can do X, Y, and Z for you."

"Well, we can't do X right now because our plane is grounded."

"Well, we didn't think you would need Y so soon.  We're still developing the team to do that."

"Well, normally we could do Z, but the guy who does that for us is on vacation in Europe right now."

In other words, don't play up the elements that we do occasionally, or can only do when the equipment is available.  Focus on what we do regularyl and do well.

No, not buying your argument.

My point is we have not played up anything.

My point is we did help in the search, at least that is the rumor, it got no exposure at all in the National Media.

A Search like this with National exposure, could demand Region or even National, participation.

Therefore you have several Wings that might roll to support, not a single Squadron or even a Wing.

So, whats the risk that we cannot support such a search (ZERO).

[lordmonar]

There is no hype...because our PAO guys know their jobs.

You suggested that we be "all over this like a cheap suit".  That is the type of hype we need to avoid.

If our PAO types were calling the national media asking why we did not get more coverage or a by name reference it would look like we were tooting our own horn.

And that is unprofessional.

[Earhart1971]

Lordmonar,


There is no hype, we are not in danger of creating any hype, and you seem to want to restrain CAP from even attempting to get coverage.

So, we got the same as doing nothing, the same coverage as having no information officer, ZERO.

No coverage!

And another lost opportunity to show the public what we do.

Have a nice day!

[carnold1836]

It seems that a press release was sent out. Now if the National news services decide not to pick up on that press release there isn't anything we can do. As stated earlier if we go rushing over to them saying "Why didn't use our name? Why didn't you tell everyone how great we are? Why didn't you say anything about us?" That looks unprofessional.

Now on the other hand if the press release was sent out and it was ignored because it was ill prepared or not properly disseminated then that is the National PAOs mistake and it needs to be fixed. That goes the same way as not sending any release out.

[lordmonar]

Lordmonar,


There is no hype, we are not in danger of creating any hype, and you seem to want to restrain CAP from even attempting to get coverage.

So, we got the same as doing nothing, the same coverage as having no information officer, ZERO.

No coverage!

And another lost opportunity to show the public what we do.

Have a nice day!

Again you are mis-repesenting what I said.  There is not hype and I don't want there to be hype.  I want there to be coverage from our PAO people.  We can't FORCE others to cover it for us.

[Earhart1971]

It seems that a press release was sent out. Now if the National news services decide not to pick up on that press release there isn't anything we can do. As stated earlier if we go rushing over to them saying "Why didn't use our name? Why didn't you tell everyone how great we are? Why didn't you say anything about us?" That looks unprofessional.

Now on the other hand if the press release was sent out and it was ignored because it was ill prepared or not properly disseminated then that is the National PAOs mistake and it needs to be fixed. That goes the same way as not sending any release out.

Press releases are not the same as having an information officer on the ground at the site.

I was discussing this with several  L/Cols, they thought we had not done any support for the search, and they thought it was a missed opportunity.

All, I am saying is CAP is lax at getting out our story, you can send press releases and they will be ignored, you got to have a relationship with the news outlets.

How many people have we got at National on Salary and expense accounts that could do this job, there is a "event" we go there, and establish ourselves.

I am for having a National Search Team that can respond with a embedded National PAO on the team, lets get some visiability for Civil Air Patrol.

It beats spending millions on ads, race cars (ah the Stock Car Racing, LOL), and other things.

Then when I go infront of parents and kids, I am not explaining from zero a previously unknown entity.  I say, hey did you see us on FOX NEWS?

We are messing up in the area of PAO, its not a local issue, its a National issue, it could  be fixed.

[Earhart1971]

Lordmonar,


There is no hype, we are not in danger of creating any hype, and you seem to want to restrain CAP from even attempting to get coverage.

So, we got the same as doing nothing, the same coverage as having no information officer, ZERO.

No coverage!

And another lost opportunity to show the public what we do.

Have a nice day!

Again you are mis-repesenting what I said.  There is not hype and I don't want there to be hype.  I want there to be coverage from our PAO people.  We can't FORCE others to cover it for us.

It's about time we "hyped" translation...... we get our story out, for god sake.

CAP has not "forced" anything in years, maybe that ought to change.

Yeah, plaster Pennsy Rangers all over a photo op on the subject, cram them on the trail and push the other searchers off the trail!

Lets, get a little pushy for a change.

[FARRIER]

If this was already posted, I will apologize now:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070320/ap_on_re_us/missing_boy_scout

A quote from the article:

"A rescue dog picked up Michael Auberry's scent less than a mile from the campsite where he had wandered away from his troop Saturday."

It wasn't the high tech, but the low tech that found the boy. Just an observation.