Cadet Participation in ES (Ground Team)

[Stonewall]

I've always considered ES (when I say "ES", I mean ground teams) an awesome venue in which to exercise leadership for the cadets.  It not only gives them practical skills they can use in life like first aid, communications, situational awareness, but it also provides opportunities to exercise leadership.  Additionally, it gives them a sense of contribution to a greater cause.

IMHO, I don't expect cadets to be fully involved with long term missions, but I do believe that since there is potential to be called to assist, that we should afford them the opportunity to achieve qualifications to do just that.  Nothing says they HAVE to be called every time there's a need to shut of an ELT at the airport, but as a cadet myself, I trained for that one big mission.  And yeah, as a cadet for 5 years, I went on a handful of "big" missions.  As a senior, I've been on and handful of "big" missions, with cadets.  Multiple days, overnight...big mission bases with multiple agencies.  So yeah, there is potential to be a part of the real thing.

That said, I don't really get a vibe that cadets are really interested in it as much as they used to be.  Additionally, I don't think seniors encourage it as much as they used to either.

Thoughts?

[Eclipse]

I didn't vote because I'm not assigned at a unit, but when I was, the cadets were always encouraged to be involved in ES and many were,
including several real-world unusual missions (USAFAUX2004, I'm looking at you and your annoyingly eagle-like eyes) (plus a number of REDCAPS).

I think this opportunity is one of the things that differentiates CAP from other programs.

[Stonewall]

As an example, this is what I feel like the "average" composite/cadet squadron should look like.

See attached "Alert Roster" from my former squadron.  It includes 13 qualified cadets.  I definitely don't see this in my neck of the woods.  But I want to change that.  I'm curious to know what it looks like in your neck of the woods.

[ThatOneGuy]

I happen to be the only member in my squadron (cadet or senior) who is qualified in anything ES, or even GTM. I get quite a few cadets interested in ES initially, but then when they find out the amount of training and $ on average in order to participate, they lose interest. We're in the process of starting a Ground Team up again, and with the help of the Group ES Officer, it should hopefully happen. But back on topic, it is not encouraged as much these days because most cadets care more about aviation and flying rather then going out and pounding the ground in the backwoods. State specific, CO has at least 3 SAR organizations per county (not really, it just seems like it) and as a result, CAP ground teams are rarely called out on any mission, and the ones that are, the rest of us never hear about it. 

[Huey Driver]

My squadron has 30 members. 19 SM's and 11 cadets. Until this summer, I was the only one with any active ES ratings. Now we have 2 members with active ratings.

None of our SM's really care about ES any more. Most all of our SM's are expired MRO's, MSA's, MS, MO, MP, GTM3, GTL though. Our squadron used to be tasked with 20-30 missions per year. Yeah, a lot. But in the decline of our typical 121.5 missions, all of them let their ratings expire. Their lack of motivation and the lack of missions are also major factors in what made our past 3 consecutive ES Officers leave the Squadron.

On the cadet side, all of my cadets look forward to the ES nights once per month. Nearly all of them have expressed interest in seriously becoming a GTM or UDF at least. A few of them have gone out and started buying supplies and vests and other cadet-like stuff to buy for ES. However, they are often not responsible enough to take their ICS Courses, or take ICUT, or enter the SQTR tasks that we complete on ES nights. I don't get it. I've talked to them multiple times about this. They're improving but I often remind them that until these get completed, no missions.

[Luis R. Ramos]

When I rejoined Aug 2011, my squadron was not very active training on ES. I fought for, and the last squadron CC accepted, for required monthly ES training both cadets and seniors. Under the current CC, the newly appointed Deputy Commander for Cadets derailed my training. He stated "not all cadets are interested in ES, the regulations do not mandate ES, so cadet participation in ES should be voluntary." Now I will have to start a program, once a month, an additional but extra day in the week.

Flyer

[Stonewall]

Under the current CC, the newly appointed Deputy Commander for Cadets derailed my training. He stated "not all cadets are interested in ES, the regulations do not mandate ES, so cadet participation in ES should be voluntary."

Lame.  Sorry to hear that.

As a former cadet I didn't care for aerospace education, but I did it because it was a part of CAP.  As a former squadron commander as well as a long time DCC in two different [highly successful] squadrons, ES was a main component of our schedule.  True, cadets are not required to participate, but if it's scheduled during the meeting, they will participate.  The stuff you schedule during meetings doesn't require gear, or qualification in anything.

It's like model rocketry, not every cadet will be interested, but they are expected to participate. 

[Woodsy]

Stonewall,

The problem we've had locally is lack of interest in ES from cadets.  The seniors are all very active in ES, and pretty much everyone, with the exception of a few new people and a few that only do cadet stuff, have multiple ES quals.

We've tried over and over again to get cadets involved.  They are always invited to participate in SAREX's, but it seems we always have the same few cadets show up, if any. 

It blows my mind.  I didn't know about CAP when I was cadet-aged, but I would have been all over the ES stuff if I did. 

That said, I think there is a little bit of a turn around lately.  We have some new toys, a bunch of new handheld radios, a couple of the digital Lpers, the sniffer, and I think cadets are starting to get interested.  I think now is a critical time, they're on the verge and we need to pull them over. 

Another issue with ground team stuff is that traditionally we've been a more air and base staff oriented squadron.  We have lots of pilots, IC's, branch directors, etc but very few GTM's.  I'm not sure if we have a current GTL at all right now.  Again, I think that's changing too.  The cadets aren't the only ones who've noticed the new toys laying around and are getting curious. 

[Stonewall]

My goal is to pay someone to sign me off on UDF - GTL over the next week or so 

Seriously, as I type this I'm taking a break from dusting off my ground team gear. I spent all night going through ICUT. Now I need someone to sign me off so I can start getting cadets signed off on comms.

I've been GBD up until 2009 when all my quals expired. I have no interest in working higher than GTL or now, so GTL I my short term goal.  Like GTL, EMT expired in 2010 too. I'm scheduled for first aid/CPR recert in a couple weeks on my company's dime/time.


Once I'm up to speed and requalified as a GTL I want to schedule at least a 1 day training opportunity every other month.  Additionally, I want to cover one ES topic during a meeting once a month.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I don't understand the push by SMs for Cadet ES participation. I did it, got the GTM badge, and never went on a mission. My quals expired when I was in college. Let the cadets focus on cadet activities, and work with the CDC to plan the "Non-required contact hours" to land on your ES training nights. Those cadets interested in working ES can then break off to go and learn with the SMs, and the rest of the cadets not interested can work on Leadership/Aerospace/Color Guard/ D&C/etc.

Don't force cadets into something they DON'T want. That's a good way to loose them.

[Stonewall]

I don't understand the push by SMs for Cadet ES participation. I did it, got the GTM badge, and never went on a mission. My quals expired when I was in college. Let the cadets focus on cadet activities, and work with the CDC to plan the "Non-required contact hours" to land on your ES training nights. Those cadets interested in working ES can then break off to go and learn with the SMs, and the rest of the cadets not interested can work on Leadership/Aerospace/Color Guard/ D&C/etc.

Don't force cadets into something they DON'T want. That's a good way to loose them.

You say that, but with 15 years of direct contact with cadets as DCC or CC, this is how we did things and our retention rate was in the 90s.  There's always one part of the program that someone doesn't care for.  For me, it was AE, but I did it anyway.  Why?  Because I'd be [darn]ed if I wasn't going to participate in something.  I loved CAP as a cadet, regardless of what was on the agenda.

Color Guard is NOT required either, so do we let cadets pick & choose what they want to do?  "You don't like color guard?  Okay, feel free to do what you want."  ES can be broad based at squadron meetings.  Meaning, covering comms, i.e. the phonetic alphabet and sending/receiving messages IS an ES function, but can also be something everyone can enjoy and learn from.  Similarly, first aid training, survival techniques, etc.  The topics I schedule for meetings that relate to ES are not, nor should they be, directly focused on a specific ground team requirement, i.e. getting signed off on conducting refit.  Weekend training activities as far as ES concerned, yes, those are not mandated.  But at a meeting, you show up and you do what's on the calendar, whether it's moral leadership, model rocketry, PT, or D&C. 

I wouldn't force anyone to get qualified in anything, that's their choice, you're right.  But the meeting is run how it's run, and as long as we're meeting all the requirements, it's up to the leadership to fill the gaps with something valuable and relevant.  If I'm in charge, one half of one meeting each month will cover an ES related topic.  You can't please everyone all the time.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm just saying that I'd back any CDC that wants to focus on direct cadet activities over ES. I was in CAP for the military aspect, which meant that I also didn't care much for AE, but I did it when it was on the agenda. We do have required contact hours, and those have to be done first. I'm fine with ES on the schedule, but if people don't want to do ES, am I really going to push the cadets into it? Not really. What you'll end up with is cadets who may start skipping those meetings. That's not a good thing, and should be addressed, but we always complain that cadets are in so many activities today, that sometimes CAP just doesn't make the cut at the top of the list. Why add an item that will make that choice for them easy to make?

[Woodsy]

My goal is to pay someone to sign me off on UDF - GTL over the next week or so 

Seriously, as I type this I'm taking a break from dusting off my ground team gear. I spent all night going through ICUT. Now I need someone to sign me off so I can start getting cadets signed off on comms.

I've been GBD up until 2009 when all my quals expired. I have no interest in working higher than GTL or now, so GTL I my short term goal.  Like GTL, EMT expired in 2010 too. I'm scheduled for first aid/CPR recert in a couple weeks on my company's dime/time.


Once I'm up to speed and requalified as a GTL I want to schedule at least a 1 day training opportunity every other month.  Additionally, I want to cover one ES topic during a meeting once a month.

Can't remember the renewal procedures for expired quals...  Do you have to do everything all over again, or just do sorties? 

Next Saturday should be a good start.  I only need a couple more things and 1 more sortie for my UDF sign off. 

[Eclipse]

A renewal requires the completion of any missing or undocumented tasks, and then one evaluated mission in that role.
If you have no missing or new tasks, then you just have to accomplish a sampling of advanced tasks to the satisfaction
of the SET.   The emphasis is on ascertaining if you can do the job, not micro'ing the qual.

Some wings have supps that require full renewal if you're over "x" years.

If you've been away a long time, you'r wing might not want you to be an SET until you get some reps in.  YMMV.

[ol'fido]

I don't understand the push by SMs for Cadet ES participation. I did it, got the GTM badge, and never went on a mission. My quals expired when I was in college. Let the cadets focus on cadet activities, and work with the CDC to plan the "Non-required contact hours" to land on your ES training nights. Those cadets interested in working ES can then break off to go and learn with the SMs, and the rest of the cadets not interested can work on Leadership/Aerospace/Color Guard/ D&C/etc.

Don't force cadets into something they DON'T want. That's a good way to loose them.

:clap:

You say that, but with 15 years of direct contact with cadets as DCC or CC, this is how we did things and our retention rate was in the 90s.  There's always one part of the program that someone doesn't care for.  For me, it was AE, but I did it anyway.  Why?  Because I'd be [darn] if I wasn't going to participate in something.  I loved CAP as a cadet, regardless of what was on the agenda.

Color Guard is NOT required either, so do we let cadets pick & choose what they want to do?  "You don't like color guard?  Okay, feel free to do what you want."  ES can be broad based at squadron meetings.  Meaning, covering comms, i.e. the phonetic alphabet and sending/receiving messages IS an ES function, but can also be something everyone can enjoy and learn from.  Similarly, first aid training, survival techniques, etc.  The topics I schedule for meetings that relate to ES are not, nor should they be, directly focused on a specific ground team requirement, i.e. getting signed off on conducting refit.  Weekend training activities as far as ES concerned, yes, those are not mandated.  But at a meeting, you show up and you do what's on the calendar, whether it's moral leadership, model rocketry, PT, or D&C. 

I wouldn't force anyone to get qualified in anything, that's their choice, you're right.  But the meeting is run how it's run, and as long as we're meeting all the requirements, it's up to the leadership to fill the gaps with something valuable and relevant.  If I'm in charge, one half of one meeting each month will cover an ES related topic.  You can't please everyone all the time.

YESSSSSS!!!

[Woodsy]

A renewal requires the completion of any missing or undocumented tasks, and then one evaluated mission in that role.
If you have no missing or new tasks, then you just have to accomplish a sampling of advanced tasks to the satisfaction
of the SET.   The emphasis is on ascertaining if you can do the job, not micro'ing the qual.

Some wings have supps that require full renewal if you're over "x" years.

If you've been away a long time, you'r wing might not want you to be an SET until you get some reps in.  YMMV.

Thanks for the info.  Do you have to renew in pre-req order, or can you go straight to the top, and that automatically renews the lower level quals?  Example, renew MO and MS automatically renews. 

[Eclipse]

Based on the table of equivalency, yes.

MO renews MS, and MP renews MO & MS (if you had it before).  The verbiage is "eligible", so YMMV.  We've had some issues
with MP's who haven't flown right seat in 10 years going off flying status and not being able to find the Becker, etc., so
in some cases it isn't automatic.

Same goes for GTL.  You get GTM3-2-1 & UDF (if you already had them).

[Spaceman3750]

I don't think anyone's talking about forcing cadets into ES. I have this funny phenomenon in my squadron (probably not unique) where the cadets have told me before - "Lt. Bagodoughnuts, we want to do this ES thing, ground team, radios, etc.". My response is "Great, here is how the program works!" and break down the steps to qualification and what their opportunities are during and after qualification.

Most of them never even do the 116.

[Eclipse]

We "force" cadets to do a lot of things they don't want to, that's their entry fee to the opportunities they want.

Why?  Because it's either better for them in the long run, or better for the organization, which in turn is better for them.

You decide the course, put it on the calendar, and allow people to make their choices.

[Stonewall]

^^^this!!!