How many people have received a CAP decoration?

[Hawk200]

I'm wondering about the decorations such as Medals of Valor (Silver, Bronze), Distinguished Service Medal, Exceptional Service, Meritorious Service, Commanders Commendation, or Lifesaving Award.

How many people here have received one within your first five years of CAP service?

I know these don't get written up for people a lot, but I'm wondering how many people have them within that timeframe. Maybe we ought to encourage more awards of the above listed decorations, awarding people more often for jobs well done.

[SAR-EMT1]

Is it not the general consensus that if you are a Squadron or Group flunkie you havent an icebergs chance in hell...whereas at Wing and above they come as party favors at any function requiring mess dress?

[SAR-EMT1]

I mean, Im an emt and have saved life - both on and off duty. But while the off duty saves would count, Im not going to apply for anything. Im not a hero.

[Major_Chuck]

My first CAP Award (other than our training doodads) came in 2002, long after I joined in 1990.  Yes I was on Wing Staff at the time.  Since then I've received five for various work on the wing and region levels.

A side note:  When I was on Wing and Region Promotion Boards we did move a lot of awards for squadron level folks through the system.  One reason, I remembered what it was like NOT to be recognized.

[Hawk200]

Is it not the general consensus that if you are a Squadron or Group flunkie you havent an icebergs chance in hell...whereas at Wing and above they come as party favors at any function requiring mess dress?

That's what I'm hoping to glean from this poll. I've done a few Cadet Training Weekends, and got Commanders Comm's for that. But I didn't just attend as a senior, I did a good bit of prior planning, and worked with the locations to use.

I just think that we shouldn't be so stingy with decs. And we need to get away from the concensus that only wing folks should get them. There shouldn't be a free-for-all on them, but we could stand to loosen up a little.

I do think that a good part of it might be that people either are unaware of how to submit decs, or else they just don't think to put someone in for one. Considering our volunteer nature, these are the only recognition we get.

[Pylon]

10+ years, haven't gotten one yet.

But then again, I've only been squadron and group staff and not at Wing.  Unless you count serving as staff at 4 encampments, but that's not really the same thing.

[MIKE]

The Unit Citation Award is classed as a decoration by CAPR 39-3.  NER earned one for 9-11 which I rate.  Was actually a  member during the cited dates.  

[SAR-EMT1]

Party favors.... and I am a Senior Personnel / Admin Officer. Its like beating your head into the wall until you get tired of the squishy sound.

[Pylon]

The Unit Citation Award is classed as a decoration by CAPR 39-3.  NER earned one for 9-11 which I rate.  Was actually a  member during the cited dates.  

Oh, if you count that Unit Citation, then yes.  I've got a "decoration".      It means so much....

[Dragoon]

There's a good reason why you are more likely to get a Commander's Comm on Wing Staff.

Quite simply, our lowest level award is approved by the Wing Commander.  It's his/her award.  So, the accomplishment needs to be big enough to make a difference at the Wing level.

Wing Staffers (and group/squadron commanders) are in the best position to do stuff that matters at the Wing level.  Ditto folks who volunteer to run wing-wide special projects (like encampment, air shows etc).

And if you do decide to give out a Commander's Comm for, say, a really good squadron finance officer, what do you give to the really good Wing Finance Officer, who has a much more difficult job?  A Meritorious?  That has to go to Region, and therefore is really more of a Region-level award.

And, frankly, it's harder to get good Wing Staff than good Squadron Staff.  If you don't take care of 'em, they leave.  And then you're stuck with the "B Team" screwing things up for everyone.


I'm not sure that the way we give these out is a problem - but if folks think it is, the best answer is an lower level award that is approved at a lower level - perhaps a "Commander's Achievement Award" to mirror the Air Force Achievement Medal, given out by Group CCs.

[Pylon]

And, frankly, it's harder to get good Wing Staff than good Squadron Staff.  If you don't take care of 'em, they leave.  And then you're stuck with the "B Team" screwing things up for everyone.

The same with squadron and group staff.  They can be very demanding jobs, especially in units with stretched personnel resources.  If you don't recognize them, you'll get the same result. 

I'm not sure that the way we give these out is a problem - but if folks think it is, the best answer is an lower level award that is approved at a lower level - perhaps a "Commander's Achievement Award" to mirror the Air Force Achievement Medal, given out by Group CCs.

This has been discussed before, and I think it is indeed time to examine our CAP Awards & Decs program.  Aligning it with the AF may not be a bad idea.  I think a "Commander's Achievement Award" (or whatever you want to call a decoration) which a Group CC can approve is an excellent idea.  There needs to be recognition for the hard workers below Wing level.  A certificate is not acceptable in a lot of circumstances, but when a Wing Awards & Decs committee consistently returns your CAPF 120s, a squadron doesn't have much more to offer its "above n' beyond" workers than a pat on the back and a stock paper certificate.

[Hawk200]

The Unit Citation Award is classed as a decoration by CAPR 39-3.  NER earned one for 9-11 which I rate.  Was actually a  member during the cited dates.  

True, but I'm looking at the more personal awards. Something that has to be written up for the individual, not that everyone in the unit gets.

The Unit Citation is also a point of contention for me. I've seen cadets that have been in six months wearing Unit Citations with three or four bronze clusters, or a silver and a couple bronze. I think that the reg needs to be clarified to "in the unit for the time period covered for at least thirty days." There wouldn't be any questions then.

[Hawk200]

And if you do decide to give out a Commander's Comm for, say, a really good squadron finance officer, what do you give to the really good Wing Finance Officer, who has a much more difficult job?  A Meritorious?  That has to go to Region, and therefore is really more of a Region-level award.

That would make it fairly consistent. The next higher command would approve the award. It would be recognizing accomplishments, and people usually react well to being recognized.

And, frankly, it's harder to get good Wing Staff than good Squadron Staff.  If you don't take care of 'em, they leave.  And then you're stuck with the "B Team" screwing things up for everyone.

The same is true at squadrons. If people don't get kudos now and then, they leave. Recognition can go a long way.

I'm not sure that the way we give these out is a problem - but if folks think it is, the best answer is an lower level award that is approved at a lower level - perhaps a "Commander's Achievement Award" to mirror the Air Force Achievement Medal, given out by Group CCs.

That would do it from what I've seen.

[arajca]

The Unit Citation is also a point of contention for me. I've seen cadets that have been in six months wearing Unit Citations with three or four bronze clusters, or a silver and a couple bronze. I think that the reg needs to be clarified to "in the unit for the time period covered for at least thirty days." There wouldn't be any questions then.

Shouldn't be happening. The reg states you must have been a member of the unit during the time frame the UC was awarded for. If you join the unit after that time frame, you cannot wear the award. CAP does not follow Army tradition/regs on unit awards.

[DNall]

Is it not the general consensus that if you are a Squadron or Group flunkie you havent an icebergs chance in hell...whereas at Wing and above they come as party favors at any function requiring mess dress?

That's what I'm hoping to glean from this poll. I've done a few Cadet Training Weekends, and got Commanders Comm's for that. But I didn't just attend as a senior, I did a good bit of prior planning, and worked with the locations to use.

I just think that we shouldn't be so stingy with decs. And we need to get away from the concensus that only wing folks should get them. There shouldn't be a free-for-all on them, but we could stand to loosen up a little.

I do think that a good part of it might be that people either are unaware of how to submit decs, or else they just don't think to put someone in for one. Considering our volunteer nature, these are the only recognition we get.

My dad got a lifesaving award a couple years in. I got a Commanders Commendation that I refuse to wear as it was literally for playing gopher at an SMC. Then again I've done many multi-Sq & group level events just like the above that I think I should have gotten something for, but that Gp CC didn't like me much so no joy.

I've heard repeatedly that a CAP Achievement Award (level under CC's Comm) is in the works, which parallels the AF very nicely. I think that'd be a great help. For instance, I was just putting people in for year end stuff here a while back. Got a safety/AEO working his butt off under tough conditions, but he's not remotely getting Safety or AE officer of the year, and nothing worthy of a comcom. So he get's no official at-a-boy.

[Hawk200]

The Unit Citation is also a point of contention for me. I've seen cadets that have been in six months wearing Unit Citations with three or four bronze clusters, or a silver and a couple bronze. I think that the reg needs to be clarified to "in the unit for the time period covered for at least thirty days." There wouldn't be any questions then.

Shouldn't be happening. The reg states you must have been a member of the unit during the time frame the UC was awarded for. If you join the unit after that time frame, you cannot wear the award. CAP does not follow Army tradition/regs on unit awards.

I know it shouldn't be happening, but it is. People are handing cadets the ribbons with stuff on them, and telling them they get to wear it. I do know for a fact that they used allow wear if you were there after the UC was issued, but you had to remove it if you left that unit. I don't recall what the dates were on those pubs, I could go digging, but it's not really important. The current reg is all that matters.

As far as the Army tradition on UC's goes, I think the Army  ought to change too. Why should I have to go buy a unit award to wear that may have been awarded  twenty years ago? Not like I made any contribution to that unit or its mission at that time. Sorry, it's a rant.

[James Shaw]

The Squadron Commander is the approving authority for the Commanders Commendation. A majority of the time (98%) they were approved. I did have one occasion that was rejected because the person had received one a month earlier for organizing a very large Level 1/SLS/CLC/ROA training weekend and fell within the inclusive dates of what I had put down. It was submitted by one of the attending Wing members.

They also have other forms of recognition such as the Certificate of Appreciation, it may not be a CC or other but it is a way to recognize. I was once told some "unofficial' opinion about awards from a local awards board member.

If you have a member who has never received a recognition award then nominated them for a Commanders Commendation.

If you know someone has been awarded 3-8 CC's than look at the criteria and try for a Meritorious and "take your chance".

If you know someone has been awarded a couple of Meritorious than shoot for the Exceptional and "take your" chance.

The Distinguished is another animal. They watch them closer because they have to be approved by the board.

I had a standard format for my CC's when I was a Squadron Commander and only had 1 turned down out of a couple dozen submitted. I even had 1 that was changed to a Meritorious on the way up.

Rank nor position matter when making the recommendation for the award you can as a 2nd Lt. submit the F120 for a Major and so on.

It is very rare that anyone would get an Exceptional or Dist without earning many of the others. Most of the time outgoing Wing Commanders will get the Distinguished.

[DeputyDog]

I'm wondering about the decorations such as Medals of Valor (Silver, Bronze), Distinguished Service Medal, Exceptional Service, Meritorious Service, Commanders Commendation, or Lifesaving Award.

How many people here have received one within your first five years of CAP service?

I know these don't get written up for people a lot, but I'm wondering how many people have them within that timeframe. Maybe we ought to encourage more awards of the above listed decorations, awarding people more often for jobs well done.

I have not. However, I did not do anything to rate any of those awards during my first five years. I didn't get my first Commander's Commendation until I had been in for 8 years, at which point I was awarded it on group staff.

[James Shaw]

In my job I deal a lot with Criteria related questions for awards and decorations. I am asked opinion related questions as to award nominations and justification of the awards and decorations. As one of the posts mentioned they had saved numerous lives both on and off duty. I would have to say that it is not bragging or self nomination but known fact of their efforts. My first Squadron Commander as a SM is the same Commander from when I was Cadet in the 80's. He gave me a bit of advice about awards when I joined his squadron when returning to CAP.

"The awards process is the PAY that CAP members receive. It is the only real way to recognize an individual who is volunteering their time and money to help me do my job as a Squadron Commander. I don't always have the time to fill out the paper work necessary for the form. I have my members write down the info or fill that part of the form out and send it to me. If I feel that it is justified than I will approve it and if I don't than I will tell you why. "

A suggestion that I gave me Squadron members was to keep track of everything they did for the calendar year that was CAP related. Everything from phone calls about their duties to any and all activities they participated in. The Squadron Commanders have a lot of other things to think about and may have a hard time keeping track of it all. I would have them send me a Year in Review Summary of their activities. If something stood out than I would ask for further details. With something like the lifesaving award it would more than likely be known by some member and should be recognized. SAVING A LIFE IS NEVER AN EVERYDAY OCCURRENCE FOR ANYONE WHETHER AN EMT OR NOT AND EACH ONE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE OTHERS. However CAP will only allow the first one be awarded. This summary helps the Commander with dates and information and lets them know that you care about what you are doing and may help to trigger the recognition process.

[mawr]

I'm proud to have recieved numous Commanders Commendations and yes, they have all come while serving on Wing Staff.  I recieved a Meritorious Award for work that I did during Katrina recovery.

But one of my favorite awards (and not the kind your referring to) was AL Wing Communicator of the Year.  I recieved that while on the Comm. Staff and was extremely surprised and honored but at the same time, embarassed.  I've always felt that those kind of awards belong to the folks below Wing level, the one's who are doing the real hard work.

I agree that those at squadron level are not recognized enough for the hard work and dedication given.  Let's face it.  These awards are our "pat on the back" and it's basically the only pay we get.

[Hawk200]

"The awards process is the PAY that CAP members receive. It is the only real way to recognize an individual who is volunteering their time and money to help me do my job as a Squadron Commander. "

I had a squadron commander that had the same views. I mentioned that I didn't care for some of the cords and decorations, and he told that I was forgetting something. I asked him what. He told me "We don't get raises. Those ribbons, and our promotions are the only real recognition we get. Granted, those should earned. But if you don't give someone something to earn, you don't keep them." It changed my viewpoint drastically. And he's right, you don't give an attaboy or kudos, or decs, or promote them when they done something to deserve it, they don't stay around. This is one reason (of many) why I oppose positional grade.

A suggestion that I gave me Squadron members was to keep track of everything they did for the calendar year that was CAP related. Everything from phone calls about their duties to any and all activities they participated in. The Squadron Commanders have a lot of other things to think about and may have a hard time keeping track of it all. I would have them send me a Year in Review Summary of their activities. If something stood out than I would ask for further details.

Same thing I did while active duty for EPR's. We don't have EPRs, but decs serve well when dealing with folks volunteering.

[Monty]

From a Squadron Commander's perspective, these things are not terribly intense to generate and they're certainly not impossible to have approved.

When I took over this cadet unit of mine shortly after I arrived here from places afar, I was immediately amazed that (a) nobody had EVER been submitted for anything and (b) even if they had wanted to get an award, nobody knew how to keep a record to save their lives.

After all, it's all about the "kids," right?     (Who incidentally, had not received any decoration-type things either, ever.)

Long story short, after about 3 months of nearly 5-day-per-week record sifting, document recollections, and such, I was able to nominate seniors and cadets for the 4+ years of work nearly all of them had done before I arrived.

All went through.

In my estimation, the largest reason for decorations not happening is due to the far-too-typical lazy, blah senior who happens to be exceedingly horribly in their accounting of their own volunteerism or those for whom they speak.

The second largest reason is probably the well-intentioned person that submits somebody for an award but the write up is pointless.  "Joe deserves a CCA because he's never missed a meeting and can always be counted on."  You know what I'd say to that?  "Good job on Joe - you owe him a beer and a dinner for being one heckuva troop.  But how is Joe substantially better than those of like grade and responsibility...unless you mean to imply that the rest of your members always miss meetings and can't be counted upon?"

It slays me that there are so many interpretations on these awards...nevertheless, I'm an advocate for keeping people's big fat fingers out of the cookie mix.  Too much regulation and too many rules nearly always turn into quasi-handcuffs for the process.  "You can only approve the CCA between the months of Jan and March, for members who have served 4.5 years, and have the new membership photo card, while being able to balance a jar of peanut butter and sea monkeys while whistling Dixie....  Oh yeah, and all the other stuff they did."

What we have may not be perfect, but it likely beats an uber-regulated process.  Lazy-bird leaders need to get off their duffs, set the egos aside, get guidance and training from those that approve these things in their states, and then make the process work for the little guy.

So says Simple Simpleton, here....whose advice I give and freely implement, much to the decorated chests of my deserving troops....

[Chappie]

Hawk, Monty...great posts.  In the Chaplain Service, we would use the verse that says, "You have not, because you ask not"    Most of our members are not aware that THEY are responsible for filing out the paper work for their promotions and awards ... that none the approving parties (Squadron, Wing, Region, or National are omniscient.   I have painfully learned as others have before me that unless there is a paper trail in CAP, if it isn't recorded/filed and sent to National for entering -- it never happened. 

Some of our people are under the misconception that there is the "ribbon" fairy who magically appears and places a ribbon for some activity or training under their pillow at night.

Part of the training process in the Chaplain Service is to make our personnel aware that they need to mainain their own 201s as well as submitting their own Form 2as for awards and Form 2 for promotions. 

"Blessed is the Squadron CC who looks out for his/her troops and keeps on the papertrail to Wing, Region and National flowing."

[SAR-EMT1]

That said, would anyone mind posting the actual commendation that came with your awards?

[Major_Chuck]

A few thoughts from when I was the Region Admin/Personnel Dude...

Too many times Wing Staff would put out the calls for the 'Of the Year Awards' only to receive nothing.

Too many times we would ask for awards nominations and receive....nothing.

It is a two way street.  Wing and Region Staff's are more than willing to process award nominations but they need to receive them to do so.  They also have to have the proper endorsements.  Anyone can nominate a person for an award.  It does not have to be the Squadron Commander.

Also, make sure it is in the proper electronic format.  Awards that have to head to NHQ have to be in the famous 'electronic format'.  Hard copies and scanned PDF files will get sent back with no action taken.

Remember that Region Awards Boards and probably most Wing Level Awards Boards are meeting over 'the internet'.  Personnel Officers will distribute them electronically to the members of the boards and wait for replies.  The days of sitting around the kitchen table and hashing them out are almost long gone.

Add some 'meat' to the award nomination.  The more substance the stronger it is to keep the award as a MSA and not downgraded to a CC.  Nominations should highlight the nominees achievements and what makes them standout against his/her peers.  

True Story:  I kicked back one MSA nomination because it simply told me that "Captain XYZ is a nice guy and a good commander."  There was a short paragraph of how he attended meetings and helped with Cadets.  Yes...that is good, that is what all of us do on the basic level.  

Your Region/Wing/Unit PAO should be able to take the same nomination package and be able to do a complete newspaper write up on the individual.  

I could go on and  on.  Truth is that we don't recognize our members enough and in a system where the award doesn't contribute to our CAP pay or add to the CAP promotion points we should be given every hard working volunteer out there the recognition they deserve.

Finally, before I go on into oblivion here...make the award presentation mean something.  Do it in front of a formation.  Take good pictures.  Don't hand it to them in the parking lot with the rest of the mail distribution.

[AlphaSigOU]

Oh, if you count that Unit Citation, then yes.  I've got a "decoration".      It means so much...

What, someone flick a booger at ya and *poof!* ya got the 'Green Weenie'?  

Seriously, all ya gotta do is show up to a meeting and you get a Unit Citation! How many squadrons still believe in the obsolete rule of wearing the squadron's UCA while a member of the squadron? Way too many to count. I 'demoted' my UCA to a single ribbon and one bronze clasp, denoting the two UCAs I earned as a cadink in FL WG many moons ago.

[SarDragon]

Some of our people are under the misconception that there is the "ribbon" fairy who magically appears and places a ribbon for some activity or training under their pillow at night.

I disagree a little. A good Personnel Officer should be tracking things like promotions and Red Service. My Personnel Officer, and I before her, built a spreadsheet that gets updated once a month with all the necessary dates and accomplishments. When someone is due, the form gets filled out, and sent through.

[Monty]

That said, would anyone mind posting the actual commendation that came with your awards?

It might be a little less invasive to ask about general "winner" style concepts vs. actually seeing some folks' actual citations (although, CAP has NO shortage of "stuck on themselves" sorts, I'm not showing you mine!)   

Here's a GREATLY simplified methodology that works for me

-Cause and effect: Who cares that so-and-so did whatever...what was the need, what was the goal, and what was accomplished?

-ALWAYS groovy to offer a measurement as well (i.e., "for the first time in three years, xyz" or "generated a 64% completion rate, compared with the prior year's 58% completion rate.")

-If so-and-so was the leader, he *led* or he *managed* or *he organized.*  Far too often, write ups seem stupid because he merely *did,* and well, there's nothing special about plain 'ole *did.*  Leading, managing, organizing, implementing...those tell the approval authority a bit more accurate a picture.

These aren't hard and fast rules...just make them something worthwhile, well-thought, and carefully worded so as to MAXIMIZE the truthful feats.  Make a snore fest for the approval authority and you'll snore right through the "rejected" stamp, slapped on your submission.

[freeflight]

I disagree with the idea the one needs to be at group or higher to receive decorations.  I received my first decoration while at squadron level.  I have nominated several people in my squadron for decorations and they have received them. I think the adage is "If you don't write them you won't receive them". There have been people in my squadron who have received the Meritorious Service, Commanders Commendation and Lifesaving awards that I have nominated.

[Major_Chuck]

I disagree with the idea the one needs to be at group or higher to receive decorations.  I received my first decoration while at squadron level.  I have nominated several people in my squadron for decorations and they have received them. I think the adage is "If you don't write them you won't receive them". There have been people in my squadron who have received the Meritorious Service, Commanders Commendation and Lifesaving awards that I have nominated.

I don't think anyone is saying that you have to be at the higher levels to receive awards.  There is just a misconception that only those at higher headquarters are receiving them.

[James Shaw]

I would post one of mine if wanted. I am proud of what I have earned and dont mind sharing. I will have to scan it and submit tomorrow.

[MIKE]

It's the dumb things that some people get CCA's for that bug me.   Stuff that at most rated a certificate, at least a thanks for helping out, but not a decoration.  And I still ain't got one. 

[Major_Chuck]

This is an issue, probably one of the contributing factors to the steady decline in membership retention.  When people are not recognized for their participation or achievements they tend to lose interest in what they are doing.  Especially in a volunteer organization.

I would venture to say that most of the membership of CAP is not here for the awards.  However when you see other people being recognized for achievements that you either match or exceed one begins to wonder "Why?"

"Why should I bust my butt to roll out of bed for every late night ELT, attend every training exercise, and give what little free time I have when Lieutenant Fuzzy Wuzzy over there gets a Commanders Commendation for helping one afternoon with a carwash?"

I'm not advocating handing the awards out like they are candy, but we need to at a minimum start to recognize more often those who do go beyond their peers to see that the mission is successful.

[Major_Chuck]

I would post one of mine but they essentially go something to this effect...

"Major Cranford walks on water, splits mountains with his vision, has the wisdom of Solomon, the patience of Ghandi, and is an all around good guy."

Okay, this is a little tounge in cheek.  I can't really walk on water. 

[DNall]

I had a standard format for my CC's when I was a Squadron Commander and only had 1 turned down out of a couple dozen submitted. I even had 1 that was changed to a Meritorious on the way up.

Could you post that if you got it laying around. That's the kind of thing that would be helpful in the reg, same as the AFI & outside sources on thier end.

[Trung Si Ma]

"Major Cranford ... and is an all around good guy."

In an airborne unit, that generally means you can be counted on to show up at all functions with the beer. Which I guess should qualify you for some sort of award.

[Dragoon]

And, frankly, it's harder to get good Wing Staff than good Squadron Staff.  If you don't take care of 'em, they leave.  And then you're stuck with the "B Team" screwing things up for everyone.

The same with squadron and group staff.  They can be very demanding jobs, especially in units with stretched personnel resources.  If you don't recognize them, you'll get the same result. 

Not exactly. 

A bad squadron staff officer screws up 30 or so people's lives.

A bad group staff officer screws up 300 or so people's lives

A bad Wing staff officer screws up 1000 people's lives.

It's scope of responsibility  EVERYONE is important, but the higher up you go, the more you really need talent and effort.  Because those people can affect sooooo many members.

Example, if a Squadron Finance officer doesn't do a good job, you may end up without funds to buy a new radio, or you may be late on a rent check.

If a Wing Finance Officer doesn't do a good job, no pilot in the Wing gets reimbursed for mission flying, to the tune of thousands of dollars. And at some point they stop wanting to fly.  Plus, the Encampment doesn't get funded.

We really really need to reward the guys who step up to these kind of thankless jobs.  The fun is in the squadrons - HQ stuff is normally just work.

[DNall]

^ well, there's some balance to that also. If a Wg staff officer doesn't do anything it tends not ot matter cause all the work is done down below anyway. If a Sq staff officer doesn't do anything then there is no program. Now, yeah if a Wg staff officer does something really good or bad then it tends to effect a wider number of people.

[Major_Chuck]

"Major Cranford ... and is an all around good guy."

In an airborne unit, that generally means you can be counted on to show up at all functions with the beer. Which I guess should qualify you for some sort of award.

Supreme Order of the Golden Stein, First Degree with Crossed Barbeque Fork and Knife.

[Dragoon]

^ well, there's some balance to that also. If a Wg staff officer doesn't do anything it tends not ot matter cause all the work is done down below anyway. If a Sq staff officer doesn't do anything then there is no program. Now, yeah if a Wg staff officer does something really good or bad then it tends to effect a wider number of people.

If the wing DO and ES guy don't do their job, you don't fly.

If the wing Finance guy doesn't do his job, you don't get reimbursed.

If the wing logistics guy doesn't do his job, your wing gets put on freeze by national and recieves no new radios, vehicles or equipment.

If the wing maintenance guy doesn't go his job, no one gets reimbursed by National to repair vans or airplanes.

Sure, if the CP guys or AE guys don't do their jobs, you still run a cadet program (though encampment might be an issue).  But there's a heck of alot more to running the Wing, and squadrons can't pick up the slack.

Again, squadron folks are important.  But talented Wing staff can make EVERYONE'S life easier.

[davedove]

Some of our people are under the misconception that there is the "ribbon" fairy who magically appears and places a ribbon for some activity or training under their pillow at night.

I disagree a little. A good Personnel Officer should be tracking things like promotions and Red Service. My Personnel Officer, and I before her, built a spreadsheet that gets updated once a month with all the necessary dates and accomplishments. When someone is due, the form gets filled out, and sent through.

That's what I have done.  I have a spreadsheet that tracks Red Service eligibility, PD accomplishments, promotion eligibility, and a few other things.  I just fill in the blanks and when the individual is eligible for something I process the paperwork.

[arajca]

Can you put a blank version up?

[Pylon]

Can you put a blank version up?

Indeed, I would love to see the same thing! 

That would be a nifty module to add to SIMS.  Alerts when members are due for things like Red Service ribbons.

[Hawk200]

Some of our people are under the misconception that there is the "ribbon" fairy who magically appears and places a ribbon for some activity or training under their pillow at night.

As a Personnel Officer, I have this problem all the time. And one major irk to me is when I ask someone about when they might have done something, I get the same thing: "I don't quite remember. Maybe it was in July?"

I'm trying to get my unit, which is ten months old, squared away on records. I've only been there 4 months. There are some people wearing ribbons that weren't documented. I was trying to get it documented, and that's the kind of response I was getting. I remain patient, it doesn't help to get annoyed, but it can be irksome.

[davedove]

Can you put a blank version up?

OK, how would I go about attaching a file so I can do this?

[Pylon]

Can you put a blank version up?

OK, how would I go about attaching a file so I can do this?

Click "Additional Options" when posting a reply.  Click the "Browse" button, find the file you want to attach, and voila!  If you're having an issue posting the Excel file, try zipping it first.

[bosshawk]

I may have an odd collection of these things: Life Saving and Unit Citation.  Got both for flying CAP missions: Life Saving for doing a whole bunch of transporting of organs and blood, mostly in the middle of Saturday nights.  The Unit Citation because I belonged to (and commanded) a Sq that regularly flew more ES hours than just about any other in CAWG, had a number of distress finds and the above-mentioned Life Saving flights.  Also have two distress finds up in the Sierra Nevada Mts.  Pretty ordinary for a CAP pilot.

[Chappie]

Some of our people are under the misconception that there is the "ribbon" fairy who magically appears and places a ribbon for some activity or training under their pillow at night.

I disagree a little. A good Personnel Officer should be tracking things like promotions and Red Service. My Personnel Officer, and I before her, built a spreadsheet that gets updated once a month with all the necessary dates and accomplishments. When someone is due, the form gets filled out, and sent through.

Unfortunately, not all squadrons are as squared away as yours.  I was assigned in a squadron that did not have a personnel officer.  The Squadron CC did as much as he could but many things like promotions, awards, etc. were neglected.  It took me 2 years before my Level 2 and Master Rating got posted.  It wasn't until I had been educated in some of the ways of Professional Development that I was able to get those posted...a bit of self-initiative.

You are to be commended for watching out for your squadron personnel.

[ColonelJack]

I received seven Commander's Commendation awards -- one for service at a cadet encampment (and believe me, I earned that one), and the other six for each of the years I served as a squadron commander.  My Group CC at the time felt that recognizing his squadron CCs that way was fit and proper, and I am not going to argue with that (mainly because he's no longer with us, God rest his soul, but also because he believed that awards and promotions were CAP's version of payday). 

Not long before I left in '96, the fellow who replaced him as Group CC put me up for a Meritorious Service, which was approved.

Jack

[Robert Hartigan]

I have been awarded Meritorious Service twice, once as a cadet and once for my work as the GLR HQ Cadet Programs Officer. I have also received four Commander's Commendations in the twenty-two years I have been a member. I wear my USAF Ribbons and three CAP ribbons on occasion, Meritorious Service, Commander's Commendation, and Spaatz. I feel that everything else is garnish and adds nothing to the taste of the fruit salad.

[DrJbdm]

I received the Commanders Commendation award in my first year as a member for my actions while serving as a TAC Officer at the Wing Encampment.

[RiverAux]

I've received a variety of awards at various levels, some of which I feel I probably earned and others for which my actions probably weren't really deserving of any recognition.  Probably balances out in the end.

However, I fully agree that the major problem with deserving folks not getting awards is the failure of their commanders (or their Personnel officers) to recommend them.  Sure, as mentioned you will get some award recommendations that don't cut the mustard, but at least those commanders tried to do the right thing. 

Unfortunately, I think award nominations are seen by some as just another form of useless paperwork.  Thats not true, but I have a lot of sympathy for the typical squadron commander who, if they are lucky, have only 2-3 other hard workers helping with the administration of their unit.  This makes it difficult to find time to do stuff like this. 

[afgeo4]

Did I not just see that every staff senior member of the Nevada encampment recieve the Commander's Commendation Medal? 

I mean I don't know if their encampment was extraordinary or maybe every single member went above and beyond the call of duty during the event, but does an encampment for 70 cadets at a "premium" Air Force base where many things are done for us warrant such a commendation for EVERY senior member? Is't working at an encampment awarded by the encampment ribbon?

I dunno, but seems like the NY Wing's encampment for 150+ cadets at a small ANG base might be more work and almost no one ever gets the CC Medal there (or anything other than the encampment ribbon).

I just think it's stuff like that that cheapens the award when it's issued for something really worthy.

PS: Did anyone read that story? It said the cadets and seniors were able to qualify for the Air Force Marksmanship Ribbon while at Nellis AFB. I believe the USAF doesn't give out the ribbon to non-USAF personnel.

[Guardrail]

PS: Did anyone read that story? It said the cadets and seniors were able to qualify for the Air Force Marksmanship Ribbon while at Nellis AFB. I believe the USAF doesn't give out the ribbon to non-USAF personnel.

Yes, the USAF does not give out the AF Small Arms Expert ribbon to non-USAF personnel.  However, cadets and seniors can qualify for the ribbon and have that transfer over to the AF should they choose to enlist or join as an officer. 

[Pylon]

PS: Did anyone read that story? It said the cadets and seniors were able to qualify for the Air Force Marksmanship Ribbon while at Nellis AFB. I believe the USAF doesn't give out the ribbon to non-USAF personnel.

Yes, the USAF does not give out the AF Small Arms Expert ribbon to non-USAF personnel.  However, cadets and seniors can qualify for the ribbon and have that transfer over to the AF should they choose to enlist or join as an officer. 

Do you have a reference for that assertion?

[Guardrail]

PS: Did anyone read that story? It said the cadets and seniors were able to qualify for the Air Force Marksmanship Ribbon while at Nellis AFB. I believe the USAF doesn't give out the ribbon to non-USAF personnel.

Yes, the USAF does not give out the AF Small Arms Expert ribbon to non-USAF personnel.  However, cadets and seniors can qualify for the ribbon and have that transfer over to the AF should they choose to enlist or join as an officer. 

Do you have a reference for that assertion?

No sir.  I attended the Colorado Wing encampment as a cadet and the Air Force personnel at the AF Academy marksmanship range told us that if we qualified Expert, the records would be saved if any of us wanted to join the Air Force, and that those records would be transferred over.

[MIKE]

2.3. Handgun Orientation Training. Handgun orientation training may be conducted for United States
Air Force Academy (USAFA) Cadets, Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) officer accessions, and
possibly Civil Air Patrol (CAP) personnel. This training consists of classroom instruction in general firearms
safety, basic operation, and marksmanship fundamentals. After completion of classroom training,
students participate in a live-fire session by completing phase II (evaluation) of the handgun Air Force
Qualification Course (AFQC). Trainees earn the Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon (SAEMR) if
they achieve an expert score. This program does not qualify an individual for armed duty. If qualification
is required, personnel must meet the full objectives and requirements in AFMAN 36-2227 for the handgun
AFQC training program.

[DNall]

2.3. Handgun Orientation Training. Handgun orientation training may be conducted for United States Air Force Academy (USAFA) Cadets, Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) officer accessions, and possibly Civil Air Patrol (CAP) personnel. This training consists of classroom instruction in general firearms safety, basic operation, and marksmanship fundamentals. After completion of classroom training, students participate in a live-fire session by completing phase II (evaluation) of the handgun Air Force Qualification Course (AFQC). Trainees earn the Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon (SAEMR) if they achieve an expert score. This program does not qualify an individual for armed duty. If qualificationis required, personnel must meet the full objectives and requirements in AFMAN 36-2227 for the handgun AFQC training program.

Really? By that read it seems like the ribbon is awarded, not held to enlistment/commissioning. I know that you do shoot at field training in AFROTC & can be awarded the ribbon, but at that point you are formally under contract & in the AF. Which is aof course the case at the academy as well. Can anyone clarify that CAP members would actually be able to earn the ribbon prior to enlistment, cause that's a huge incentive.

[MIKE]

I'm just providing the relevant cite... Even if the ribbon is awarded, CAPR 39-3 restricts wear.

[DNall]

Did I not just see that every staff senior member of the Nevada encampment recieve the Commander's Commendation Medal? 

I mean I don't know if their encampment was extraordinary or maybe every single member went above and beyond the call of duty during the event, but does an encampment for 70 cadets at a "premium" Air Force base where many things are done for us warrant such a commendation for EVERY senior member? Is't working at an encampment awarded by the encampment ribbon?

I dunno, but seems like the NY Wing's encampment for 150+ cadets at a small ANG base might be more work and almost no one ever gets the CC Medal there (or anything other than the encampment ribbon).

I just think it's stuff like that that cheapens the award when it's issued for something really worthy.

PS: Did anyone read that story? It said the cadets and seniors were able to qualify for the Air Force Marksmanship Ribbon while at Nellis AFB. I believe the USAF doesn't give out the ribbon to non-USAF personnel.

By the way, our encampments run 200-250 twice a year at a dusty nasty broke down ARNG base in let me spell H-O-T for ya central Texas & there was no AC till this year & little sleep for anyone because of it. I ain't seen no comendation yet. Don't think any senior members get one. It's expected that Wg CP be on the ball & run that well, plus a lot of other things too.

I'm just providing the relevant cite... Even if the ribbon is awarded, CAPR 39-3 restricts wear.

Roger, and thanks! I hadn't seen that before. Have to ask about that when I get a chance. I find it curious though that JROTC would not be eligible (says accessions) but CAP would, VERY curious.

[afgeo4]

I find it curious that the reg is talking about handgun traning since that training is reserved as follow-on marksmanship training. The standard marskmanship training in basic military training is with the rifle, not handgun. Those allowed to qualify in handgun use are usually SF, Medics, Officers, Aircrew, EOD, and Spec Ops airmen. They are issued a 2nd award of ribbon when qualified with the M-9 if they qualified for it with the M-16.

By the way, if you do qualify for the ribbon, where will this be recorded and where will this record be stored for you "just in case" you enlist? I believe this "record" will be filed in the circular file just as soon as the activity is finished. Our cadets and seniors aren't in the DoD database anywhere... we aren't in DEERS, we don't get DD214s.

[Pylon]

I find it curious that the reg is talking about handgun traning since that training is reserved as follow-on marksmanship training. The standard marskmanship training in basic military training is with the rifle, not handgun. Those allowed to qualify in handgun use are usually SF, Medics, Officers, Aircrew, EOD, and Spec Ops airmen. They are issued a 2nd award of ribbon when qualified with the M-9 if they qualified for it with the M-16.

By the way, if you do qualify for the ribbon, where will this be recorded and where will this record be stored for you "just in case" you enlist? I believe this "record" will be filed in the circular file just as soon as the activity is finished. Our cadets and seniors aren't in the DoD database anywhere... we aren't in DEERS, we don't get DD214s.

Might want to ask SrA McClarty what paperwork gets generated for the AFSAEMR, since he has had some involvement with that, IIRC.  This has been a matter of discussion before.

[Spogden]

I'm wondering about the decorations such as Medals of Valor (Silver, Bronze), Distinguished Service Medal, Exceptional Service, Meritorious Service, Commanders Commendation, or Lifesaving Award.

How many people here have received one within your first five years of CAP service?

I know these don't get written up for people a lot, but I'm wondering how many people have them within that timeframe. Maybe we ought to encourage more awards of the above listed decorations, awarding people more often for jobs well done.

I am just coming up on 2 yrs of service. I have received a Commander's Commendation and Meritorious Service Award.

[flight dispatcher]

Commanders Commendation (3rd year as a cadet  - responding to an aircraft "incident")

The other two Commanders Commendations and Meritorious Service Awards while on Wing Staff.