Fema heard of CAP ??

[BillB]

FEMA seeks volunteer pilots
   
    Many volunteer pilots tried in vain after Hurricane Katrina to offer their services to the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to help provide relief, but now FEMA is working with AERObridge, an NBAA-endorsed group, to plan ahead for general aviation (GA) support in future emergencies.
    An exercise is planned for May 13-17 to simulate response to a massive earthquake along the New Madrid Seismic Zone, which runs beneath several central states. FEMA needs volunteer pilots and high-wing airplanes with a top speed of 120 knots or less that could be used for surveillance.
    Activities for the exercise will take place at command posts, emergency operation centers, and other locations in the Washington, D.C.-area and the eight states that could be affected by an earthquake in the seismic zone: Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, Tennessee, Illinois, Indiana, Arkansas and Missouri.
    (Story provided by AVwebFlash, www.avweb.com .)

[manfredvonrichthofen]

That is just saddening.

[mclarke]

Who wants to send them an "anonymous" e-mail explain who we are and what we can do? Seriously though, PAOs should jump on this as a chance to secure an inter-agency relationship.

[coudano]

That is just saddening.

It's also potentially very dangerous.

[jks19714]

Doesn't CAP brief the Air Force EPLOs?  It seems to me that the EPLOs should have the ear of the FEMA region staff.

[Smithsonia]

The Current Head of FEMA is Craig Fugate. Mr. Fugate was a CAP Cadet. http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/wfugate.shtm

[manfredvonrichthofen]

It also seems like at least one time or another that CAP works with FEMA locally they would have let the higher know about us and our work. They ought to invite some FEMA staff members to the National Conference and have them escorted by some really good ES and Air Ops officers.

This could potentially be very bad for us. Another thing we should do is go to this exercise's planning meetings and what not and recruit all the pilots we can.

[Eclipse]

Life is not zero-sum.  The fact that FEMA is looking for volunteer pilots doesn't mean they won't engage CAP as well, or often, etc.

Instead of insinuating that there is a FEMA / CAP issue, why aren't we asking these pilots why they aren't members?  FEMA may also find quickly
how "Easy!" and "Fun!" it is to work with people with fair egos who aren't otherwise joiners, and have no formal training in structured government operations.

[Larry Mangum]

Guys, this has already been addressed at higher levels.

[BillB]

ED
I don't think Fugate was ever a CAP cadet. I was Squadron Commander when he would have been a cadet, and I don't remember him. I worked for him in the Alachua County Emergency Management as Director of Air Operations and he never mentioned being in CAP. But I know he is aware of CAP having used CAP in several local Emergency Management tests and activities.

[Flying Pig]

Just because CAP exists does not mean that FEMA cant benefit from a pool of their own pilots to draw from and control as they see fit.  And likewise, does not mean FEMA wont be calling on CAP also.  What better way to go from an operations standpoint than to have your own aircraft.  Not have to go through CAP channels and jump through all of CAPs hoops when you want someone transported somewhere.  I would also venture to guess that many of those volunteer FEMA pilots will no doubt have a CAP card in their back pocket also.  Get in, take over, and next thing you know FEMA will be a branch of CAP!

[Eclipse]

Also note the use of the word "surveillance".  I don't personally understand why FEMA would be doing "surveillance", but "surveillance" is a law enforcement function that Posse Commitatus keeps CAP out of.

Could be improper nomenclature, or an actual mission we can't be involved in.

[a2capt]

The Current Head of FEMA is Craig Fugate. Mr. Fugate was a CAP Cadet. http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/wfugate.shtm

If he was, you must know more than most others about it, this page says zero about it. Why link to it in that context?

[Flying Pig]

In this context I am thinking the word surveillance was probably misused, or they are using surveillance in place of reconnaissance, just like CAP would do.  Ive never known FEMA to have any law enforcement surveillance role.

[coudano]

Arguably, persistent observation of a specific target constitutes surveillance, particularly if the images are coming down live (although that's certainly not requisite).  It doesn't have to be a Law Enforcement target, to constitute surveillance.

CAP walks right up to the line of that already...

There are a variety of reasons why FEMA might want to do something like that...
Let's use our imagination for a second.
Suppose a federal disaster area where they want persistent photo/video on a specific target, let's say a dam or levee.  They want to have live feedback if/when it breaches.  There you go.


Also i'm not sure that it specified that FEMA was going to PAY anybody for any of this stuff...
I envision it more like an "open source" kind of thing (hey go take pictures of the area and post them here)
then they can comb the uploads for useful output.
it's a sound concept, and already in popular use in other areas.

And i'm also quite sure that FEMA would have no intent of /insuring/ these volunteers under FECA or FTCA for any damage they may incur to themselves, their airplanes, or their property; nor any damage they may DO to others using themselves, or their airplanes (including any laws they might advertently or inadvertently break, in the process of flying these 'missions').  In those regards, you volunteer to fly for FEMA at your own risk...  Of course there will be plenty of yokels who will jump all over that anyway.

[Smithsonia]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Guys;
We had a PIO/PAO Briefer that came out in 2009. It had the reference to Craig Fugate being a former CAP cadet. I don't know what changed. Here's the briefing package. Of course many of these items have changed in the last 2 years but oddly the reference to Mr. Fugate seems to have changed too. I dunno.

1.Craig Fugate, who is Pres. Obama's choice to head FEMA and who has served in a similar position for the State of Florida for many years and through hurricanes, tornadoes, and wildfires. Mr. Fugate is a former CAP cadet.

2. 57,000 Volunteers nation wide. 1600 in Colorado. Colorado has 13-14 aircraft (one aircraft is to be sold or sent to another Wing TBD)

3. 2,500 Search and Rescue Missions in 2008, nationally.

4. In 2008 - 250 Counter Drug missions. Intercepting (along with other agencies who participated in these missions) $1 Billion of illicit contraband.

5. One million Homeland Security missions since 9-11.

6. Hila Levy 2004 CAP Cadet of the Year became the Air Force Academy top scholar and for the first time in AFA history Rhodes Scholar in 2008.

7. In 2008 the Colorado Civil Air Patrol Saved 16 people. Participated in 91 Search and Rescue Missions. And, provided 35,000 hours of volunteer service back to communities (over and above their training and normal CAP commitments) in things like disaster relief, Air Force Support, Chaplain Services, and community outreach. (aerospace education, flying teachers, Wreaths Across America, etc)

8. CAP serves the state of Colorado from Headquarters at Peterson AFB with Squadrons and Personnel in Denver, Ft. Collins, Greeley, Durango, Grand Junction, Colorado Springs, Montrose, Boulder, Steamboat Springs, Pueblo, Castle Rock, Parker, Aurora, Centennial, Broomfield, Canon City, Alamosa,

Source: CAP Report to Congress.

9. How do you join CAP?

http://cowg.cap.gov/ColoradoWingCAP/HowDoIJoinCAP/tabid/60/Default.aspx

http://cowg.cap.gov/FindAColoradoSquadron/tabid/161/Default.aspx

[bosshawk]

I suspect that, as a result of things like Katrina, FEMA has decided to recruit it's own volunteer aviation force.  I have a friend(a CAP member) who signed up well over a year ago to become an aviation ops officer for FEMA and is now certified to be one.  That was a clear picture, to me, that FEMA is looking for aviation help.

Now, why haven't they contacted CAP to fill this role?  Who knows?  Quite likely that FEMA has contacts at National that none of us know about.

Suggest that most of you guys at the lower levels of CAP simply stand down and wait to see if CAP gets the mission or any part of it. 

[coudano]

Missouri has a robust air operations plan for NLE/AS/Cracked Earth Scenario
Including auto-launch mission profiles and authorizations

[Eclipse]

Missouri has a robust air operations plan for NLE/AS/Cracked Earth Scenario
Including auto-launch mission profiles and authorizations

That's some fancy words for RUNNNNN!

[EmergencyManager6]

Maybe the Feds have not been satisfied with CAP's preformance?

[RiverAux]

Jeez guys, don't freak out.   Did any of you check out what Aerobridge is?  http://aerobridge.org/  Based on the wording in the avweb article and similarities it shares with their web site, it probably comes from a press release from their organization.  These guys are doing the sort of stuff that CAP just isn't equipped or really capable of doing -- moving people and supplies.  Sure, they've got some single engine planes but every picture on their site is of much larger and more capable aircraft than we have - for those missions. 

They seem to be filling a niche outside of CAP. 

Now, if CAP hadn't decided to junk its member-owned aircraft program we could actually be doing something like this.  But, since we're only interested in putting hours on corporate aircraft it might be a little too outside the box. 

[a2capt]

Basically, with official aircraft sparsely located for many folks, and the continued hoops and hurdles they have put on using member owned aircraft, the very thing the whole organization was founded on, there's very little incentive to keep ones flying status with CAP current at all. In fact, if you don't own, or regularly fly similar aircraft it's almost impossible in some instances to keep current.

Perhaps FEMA sees the bottlenecks from the Fossett mission and wants to use multiple forces, too.

[Eclipse]

Now, if CAP hadn't decided to junk its member-owned aircraft program we could actually be doing something like this.  But, since we're only interested in putting hours on corporate aircraft it might be a little too outside the box.

The use of member-owned aircraft can be approved any time there is a justifiable need.  The reality is that this is rarely the case, and most members
who whine about not being able to fly their own planes want to do so for personal convenience or to try and avoid the "onerous" regulations and paperwork involved.

Rarely is their justification for needing them, especially with corporate airframes not getting the hours they could / should all over the county.

[RiverAux]

The use of member-owned aircraft can be approved any time there is a justifiable need.  T

Technically true but in practice it just isn't going to happen whether there is a need or not. 

But, my bigger point was that CAP could provide aircraft for movement of larger cargo and more personnel with member-owned aircraft but since in practice we have made it almost impossible to use member-owned planes this niche has been left open and we shouldn't whine about another organization that has been formed to fill the gap.

[Spaceman3750]

We have several empty GA8's that should be perfect for hauling cargo around...

[Check Pilot/Tow Pilot]

I signed myself and my plane up so let's see what happens.

[RADIOMAN015]

Who wants to send them an "anonymous" e-mail explain who we are and what we can do? Seriously though, PAOs should jump on this as a chance to secure an inter-agency relationship.

Well actually you have to remember that the USAF has first priority on assigning any missions to CAP aircraft.  Perhaps FEMA feels that CAP can't support the requirement and they want to see what they can get from other volunteers that have aircraft that could be strictly used to transport supplies/personnel.   

Likely this is something that National HQ Ops Chief should call FEMA on and ask them what they feel they need as far as aircraft.  How many aircraft do they need, and what is time frame for mobilization.  I would assume that aircraft would be coming from outside the disaster zone.
RM

[Eclipse]

I just signed up all ~550 CAP aircraft and had the emails sent to "noc@af.mil".

Problem solved.

[coudano]

I just signed up all ~550 CAP aircraft and had the emails sent to "noc@af.mil".

Problem solved.

seriously.

[RRLE]

FEMA is a part of DHS. So is the USCG. The USCG has the USCG Auxiliary which has an aviation program and FEMA bypassed them also.

Many of Aux aircraft are twin engine and are used to transport USCG officers and some logistics work.

[nesagsar]

The only time I have seen FEMA acknowledge CAP was in the ESF#9 online course. I have seen CAP mentioned in DHS-NOC reports for flood recon though.

[Check Pilot/Tow Pilot]

It could be that FEMA is anticipating that in the event of a disaster most of the USCG and CAP planes will be utilized.

BTW, I registered my plane and received a response within a couple of hours.  I also offered to assist the organization.

[ZigZag911]

Possibly CAP aircraft are all ready "spoken for' in national level planning...perhaps by AFNORTH???

[BillB]

I can see a possible problem with CAP aircraft assigned missions by AFNORTH or Tyndall AFB and mixing in a bunch of untrained FEMA pilots and aircraft into the same airspace. Would there be any control coordination?

[Flying Pig]

"untrained FEMA pilots"?  Untrained by whos standards?  Are non-CAP pilots out there flying around crashing into each other or something.  It would be interesting to see who views who as untrained 

[FW]

In the event of a major DR mission, any available assets are welcome. All states have plans which have "reserve" capabilities calling for air assets from the GA community.  In Pa., the wing commander is also the deputy administrator of SARDA; reporting directly to the Lt. Governor.  The deputy is in charge of coordinating GA assets (aircraft and aircrew) to augment the mission.
 
FEMA also would like to have such a capability.  CAP is already part of the picture.  From the Mississippi floods of the early 90s, Katrina and, Deepwater Horizon, to today, our aircraft and crews play a major roll in assisting FEMA and the affected communities.  FEMA has always counted on CAP's resources.  So has any state EMA needing our assistance. 

[Check Pilot/Tow Pilot]

In the event of a major DR mission, any available assets are welcome. All states have plans which have "reserve" capabilities calling for air assets from the GA community.  In Pa., the wing commander is also the deputy administrator of SARDA; reporting directly to the Lt. Governor.  The deputy is in charge of coordinating GA assets (aircraft and aircrew) to augment the mission.
 
FEMA also would like to have such a capability.  CAP is already part of the picture.  From the Mississippi floods of the early 90s, Katrina and, Deepwater Horizon, to today, our aircraft and crews play a major roll in assisting FEMA and the affected communities.  FEMA has always counted on CAP's resources.  So has any state EMA needing our assistance.

Well said Col Weiss :clap: :clap:

[AbnMedOps]

It's too bad that CAP has become so distant from the civil aviation community that this is all even an issue. Back in the founding days of legend, just prior to WWII, CAP was specifically set up for this type of thing.The "movers and shakers", the folks who had access to those complex multi-engine amphibians and all the rest, brought their hugely expensive assets to the volunteer effort, under auspices of the Civil Air Patrol, and ran some some fairly complex operations.

Over time, for several reasons (you pick..), CAP has lost the focus of being THE operational volunteer aviation force. That giant sucking sound is a vacuum, and nature abhors a vacuum. So, the void becomes filled by Airbridge, by Young Eagles, by Aviation Explorers, by Angel Flight, etc, etc.

Face it, the serious minded people and corporations of today that are interested in making available their aircraft and crews, and the agencies that would call upon them, are NOT impressed with a marginal organization that appears inwardly self-obsessed with uniforms, logos, politics and purges, and all the rest.

So much potential, so wasted.

[EMT-83]

Face it, the serious minded people and corporations of today that are interested in making available their aircraft and crews, and the agencies that would call upon them, are NOT impressed with a marginal organization that appears inwardly self-obsessed with uniforms, logos, politics and purges, and all the rest.

Many members of this forum are obsessed with those issues. The general membership, probably not so much.

[FW]

I just got back from an AOPA event where CAP was a major "player".  It seems AOPA is proud to be associated with CAP.  And, it was nice meeting Mr. Fuller.

Serious minded people are very impressed with what the members of Civil Air Patrol do every day.
However, we can't be all things to all people.  And, if a major disaster strikes, we can only do what we are capable of.  FEMA must call on every available asset it can and, I see no problem with them creating a database to call on if needed. 

At the local level, CAP partners with EAA and BSA to further the cause of GA.  We have great partnerships, IMHO.  I would love to explore better ways to interact.  Personally, I am an active Angel Flight pilot and, am proud to donate my aircraft and services to transport patients for care.

Any perceived vacuum gets filled; not just the way you think it should. 

Civil Air Patrol explores any new potential and, if we can handle it, we take advantage and exploit it.  However, we are not in the position to "call for volunteers" in an emergency.  We can not screen and train aircrews in days to fly our missions.  We don't have the authority to "cover" non members who perform missions for CAP.  It's not what we do.  And, I can live with that.

[Eclipse]

Over time, for several reasons (you pick..), CAP has lost the focus of being THE operational volunteer aviation force. That giant sucking sound is a vacuum, and nature abhors a vacuum. So, the void becomes filled by Airbridge, by Young Eagles, by Aviation Explorers, by Angel Flight, etc, etc.

Face it, the serious minded people and corporations of today that are interested in making available their aircraft and crews, and the agencies that would call upon them, are NOT impressed with a marginal organization that appears inwardly self-obsessed with uniforms, logos, politics and purges, and all the rest.

Those fine organizations are not filing any "void left by CAP", they have different missions, and for the most part are outside the mandates of CAP's mission, which many people, usually those misinformed, seem to feel should be anything with the word "plane" or "air" in it.   

Newsflash, it's not.

We are not in the patient transport business.  Period.  So comparisons to Angel Flight are so off-based as to be kinda funny.

The "Aviation Explorers" no longer exists. 
It is now a niche of the BSA's Learning for Life, and while again, worthwhile for what it does, so small as to be a non-factor nearly anywhere except for the areas where local pilots have decided to give it life.  Hardly "filling a vacuum".

The Young Eagles exist for one reason - to expose young people to aviation and usually their first flight(s).  Noteworthy, but hardly
a "program" in the way that CAP is, and further, I doubt too many here would argue about the fact that Young Eagles is as much about marketing local flight schools as it is a "youth program".  Nothing wrong with that, but let's be realistic.

As noted, AOPA is a friend of CAP, both overtly and in the background, but it is interesting to note how many people love to
espouse the demise of CAP, and in those paragraphs cite unstructured "let's just fly" organizations as somehow filling the need.
The don't, by a long shot.  Not in commitment, not in requirements, and not in the results they produce.  It might make people feel better at night to think "i'm here to help", but in the long term, people who just "show up" are usually sent home (with sour grapes),
and aren't much use in structured disaster relief and similar situations.

What I have found is that pilots who understand CAP are generally benevolent or agnostic, but rarely belligerent.  The belligerence
generally comes from people who have not the slightest clue, or who have bad feelings because of some personal situation, and
those are usually because they came into a unit thinking they have poop with a special fragrance, bumped heads, and left. In many cases, but not all, the level of belligerence towards CAP is somehow magically similar to how much belligerence these people have for the local FBO's, TSA, FAA, flight schools, and even their own club.

[Mustang]

AERObridge will be a full participant in FEMA's National Level Exercise 2011 that is scheduled for May 2011.   The purpose of the exercise is to prepare and coordinate a multiple-jurisdictional integrated response to a national catastrophic   event.

How sad is it that I'm learning of this exercise just now from some random website on the interwebs, rather than from CAP?  I guess we weren't invited to play.

[nesagsar]

AERObridge will be a full participant in FEMA's National Level Exercise 2011 that is scheduled for May 2011.   The purpose of the exercise is to prepare and coordinate a multiple-jurisdictional integrated response to a national catastrophic   event.

How sad is it that I'm learning of this exercise just now from some random website on the interwebs, rather than from CAP?  I guess we weren't invited to play.

Yay for big earthquakes. Seriously, the NLE is going to be crazy.

[Spaceman3750]

AERObridge will be a full participant in FEMA's National Level Exercise 2011 that is scheduled for May 2011.   The purpose of the exercise is to prepare and coordinate a multiple-jurisdictional integrated response to a national catastrophic   event.

How sad is it that I'm learning of this exercise just now from some random website on the interwebs, rather than from CAP?  I guess we weren't invited to play.

Several wings in the New Madrid Seismic Zone are participating. Those who aren't in the NMSZ aren't.

[Eclipse]

Several wings in the New Madrid Seismic Zone are participating. Those who aren't in the NMSZ aren't.

Our wing's involvement has been dialed back to Wing-HQ only activities because of other, real-world stuff going on.  This was apparently
a decision made outside CAP.

[nesagsar]

Several wings in the New Madrid Seismic Zone are participating. Those who aren't in the NMSZ aren't.

Our wing's involvement has been dialed back to Wing-HQ only activities because of other, real-world stuff going on.  This was apparently
a decision made outside CAP.

Most states in FEMA Region IV have opted out of the exercise because of real-world incident response and the entire exercise is no longer 24 hours.

[JeffDG]

Several wings in the New Madrid Seismic Zone are participating. Those who aren't in the NMSZ aren't.

Our wing's involvement has been dialed back to Wing-HQ only activities because of other, real-world stuff going on.  This was apparently
a decision made outside CAP.

Most states in FEMA Region IV have opted out of the exercise because of real-world incident response and the entire exercise is no longer 24 hours.

I know we're going forward, and it was never a 24 hour thing for us...we're scaling for 4 days worth of ops.

[Spaceman3750]

Several wings in the New Madrid Seismic Zone are participating. Those who aren't in the NMSZ aren't.

Our wing's involvement has been dialed back to Wing-HQ only activities because of other, real-world stuff going on.  This was apparently
a decision made outside CAP.

Yeah, the state pulled out. I'm not clear on who we're working with now. I'm a bit uneasy because I am approved for a day off of work to participate in the exercise but since we've scaled back I'm afraid that's about to be wasted.

[Eclipse]

I don't think we're working we anyone, and I believe the total ops will be at Wing HQ.

[PWK-GT]

I don't think we're working we anyone, and I believe the total ops will be at Wing HQ.

Such was confirmed by the ILWG CC to me last night as he visited my unit.

[RiverAux]

hmm, here is an article about AOPA sending requests to help from GA pilots to this Aerobridge organization to coordinate:  http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2011/110511disaster_sim_to_include_ga_response.html?WT.mc_id=ebrief