CUL questions

[wuzafuzz]

From my personal, hand-on, know-it-all experience with the ARC, I can tell you they bring in plenty of infrastructure, and because they
are handling money, including dispersing it, lodging for displaced persons, and providing meals for sometimes thousands at a time, they are using as much technology as anybody.

I believe Red Cross has tons more money than we do.  My comparison to other organizations still applies.

Its also not your job - logistics / facilities or IT would be the people responsible for that, not comms.

And when a fleet of volunteer IT folks (with hardware) doesn't show up to play?  It would be AWESOME if the infrastructure was provided.  My mileage is different than yours.

As Ned (and I have said), there's been several thousand laptops issues to unit CC's in the last 5 years, and even the first-wave ones
are still plenty viable. 

I have NEVER seen a CAP laptop show up in Comm, in spite of requesting them.  They are always in use by other people like IC's. 

Most of the professionals I work with in CAP have handheld devices that can tether a notebook to the internet, and
in turn make a notebook an access point, not to mention awesome toys like Clearspot and MyFi's.

No excuse for a stone-age mentality beyond the fall-back.

I'm not about to sign up for a data plan just to support CAP, and I have plenty of excuses to support that personal decision.  Member-owned computers, LAN/WAN hardware, radios, data plans, etc should not be a prerequisite for mission base jobs. 

As I said before, it would be completely awesome if the infrastructure were provided.  It's just my experience that such a scenario rarely happens at missions/exercises.  We have a lot of strengths in my wing/group, but that's not one of them.  It's not that we are a bunch of Luddites; the IT savvy folks are doing other things.

[Eclipse]

Its also not your job - logistics / facilities or IT would be the people responsible for that, not comms.

And when a fleet of volunteer IT folks (with hardware) doesn't show up to play?  It would be AWESOME if the infrastructure was provided.  My mileage is different than yours.

Not having someone there to do a given job doesn't make it any more your responsibility than not having an AOBD makes launching aircraft a GBD responsibility - if you choose to take it on because someone asks you to do it, then don't complain.  Otherwise, IT infrastructure is not the responsibility of Comms. Period.

The 5-P's are wholly applicable here.

I'm not about to sign up for a data plan just to support CAP, and I have plenty of excuses to support that personal decision.  Member-owned computers, LAN/WAN hardware, radios, data plans, etc should not be a prerequisite for mission base jobs. 

No one is suggesting you do, I merely said that a lot of people these days carry devices that can provide that capability as a matter of course, its not really that unique.

Member owned-computers and radios are not required for mission work - most wings are swimming in extra radio gear because the TOA
and our own rules make it "challenging" to issue the gear sometimes.  If there are artificial barriers put up by your wing or the gear is still being handed to the GOB's, that's a local problem, I agree, but not a national one.  I made it clear to my Wing LG that I would be happy to refurb notebooks returned by units who give them back when they get a new one - mostly the shiny blue and shiny silver Toshibas.   I was aghast that these very capable machines were going to be DRMO'ed just because they need to be scratch-loaded and maybe a little RAM added.  I think to date I've put 5 or 6 machines back into the unit channel or parked them in go kits for ES use.  There are two more sitting behind me waiting for my attention.

You might be surprised what is available if you just ask, and are willing to put in some preparation a few days before Armageddon.

[wuzafuzz]

Its also not your job - logistics / facilities or IT would be the people responsible for that, not comms.

And when a fleet of volunteer IT folks (with hardware) doesn't show up to play?  It would be AWESOME if the infrastructure was provided.  My mileage is different than yours.

Not having someone there to do a given job doesn't make it any more your responsibility than not having an AOBD makes launching aircraft a GBD responsibility - if you choose to take it on because someone asks you to do it, then don't complain.  Otherwise, IT infrastructure is not the responsibility of Comms. Period.

Exactly, so I'm left with PAPER.  I wasn't complaining BTW, simply explaining why I still prefer paper...as a CUL. 

I'm not about to sign up for a data plan just to support CAP, and I have plenty of excuses to support that personal decision.  Member-owned computers, LAN/WAN hardware, radios, data plans, etc should not be a prerequisite for mission base jobs. 

No one is suggesting you do, I merely said that a lot of people these days carry devices that can provide that capability as a matter of course, its not really that unique.

Availability of those devices depends on the demographics of your team.  Being member-owned equipment should we really be depending on it?  If those folks don't show up, we're hosed. 

Member owned-computers and radios are not required for mission work - most wings are swimming in extra radio gear because the TOA
and our own rules make it "challenging" to issue the gear sometimes.  If there are artificial barriers put up by your wing or the gear is still being handed to the GOB's, that's a local problem, I agree, but not a national one.  I made it clear to my Wing LG that I would be happy to refurb notebooks returned by units who give them back when they get a new one - mostly the shiny blue and shiny silver Toshibas.   I was aghast that these very capable machines were going to be DRMO'ed just because they need to be scratch-loaded and maybe a little RAM added.  I think to date I've put 5 or 6 machines back into the unit channel or parked them in go kits for ES use.  There are two more sitting behind me waiting for my attention.

You might be surprised what is available if you just ask, and are willing to put in some preparation a few days before Armageddon.

I wouldn't be surprised because I have asked.  My wing is actually pretty darn good at getting equipment into the field.  Since we don't have a decent place to store our equipment most of it is issued to individuals.  One result of that is those items are only available on short notice if they are.

Your laptop refurb program sounds like a great way to keep machines available for ES.  Good work!

What it comes down to IMHO is this: if we train at SAREX's with months to plan and we still usually lack good IT support, I cannot reasonably expect IT support for a REDCAP.  That's why I still plan to use paper.  If we ever score a place to hang our hat the whole deal could change and I'd help change it.  If I ever win the lotto I'll fund a local or mobile CAP command post myself!   

[Robborsari]

Rob,

We did several tests with LAN mode on IMU.  It works ok untill you hit around 8 pc's  then your linksys WLAN router starts to drop packets, and the RF gets too much interference.   Go wired and it solves the RF issues, but still drops packets at around 10 PC's.

Cisco 2600 Router we tested to 28 pc's  (Then we ran out of PC's)  but we had 0% packet loss.

In a pinch the linksys (or other cheap router ) will work.  For a large network you need a more robust router.

We have a cache of 10 laptops on a local domain and server we deploy as a  kit to support out IMT.



Paper backup is a MUST.... Im a firm believer that if you dont know how to use paper and you dont know what IMU does in the background, you wont have a clue what to do when IMU dosent work.

The lan mode was using a .net rpc method.  The lan mode is not in IMU anymore.  It now uses http protocol which is much lighter weight. 

[Robborsari]

Unfortunately for many here, we do not yet have dedicated facilities that we can have set up all the time.  Those of you who do, need to keep that in mind. That is the reason COWG is establishing portable incident communications systems so we CAN set up where/when needed. Internet is a luxury we don't always have and can't always plan for.

Also, WMU is not maintained by National nor is it on a server maintained or operated by National.

Yes, there is a WHOLE lot of training needed, but we have problems with everyone wanting to go into the field and no one wanting to develop ANY skills that might lead to them being kept at base.

My understanding is that the server is in fact located at national and backed up by the national IT staff.  The WMU itself is maintained by the author Pete Anderson of OR wing.

[CommGeek]

Rob,

When I said LAN mode I meant hosting a server on IIS or Cassini locally, without hitting the internet

[Robborsari]

Rob,

When I said LAN mode I meant hosting a server on IIS or Cassini locally, without hitting the internet

Ok.  Thats strange.  I have never had traffic issues with cheap routers even when using the cellphone modem.  I guess I have hardy routers.  Or a higher tolerance for dropped packets    

[lordmonar]

I just got an E-mail from my wing CC....Natioanl is looking to put together a team to intragrate IMU, E-services, WMU and WIMRS into one or two national level systems.

[Robborsari]

I just got an E-mail from my wing CC....Natioanl is looking to put together a team to intragrate IMU, E-services, WMU and WIMRS into one or two national level systems.

Thats great.  They have not told Pete that yet.  I hope we can work something out.

[Eclipse]

I just got an E-mail from my wing CC....Natioanl is looking to put together a team to intragrate IMU, E-services, WMU and WIMRS into one or two national level systems.

The key there is still "looking to put a team together" - this is still pre-RFP, which means we won't see anything in production for a couple of years.