CUL questions

[maverik]

Hello all,

I was wondering for you CUL's out there when doing the planning have any of you used the following forms:

ICS 205
ICS214
ICS 213
ICS 215A

If so how did you like those forms? I am thinking about using those with other forms as a means for comm plan etc.  Also what do you personally take into consideration when developing a comm paln?

[JoeTomasone]

What I take into consideration (from a radio perspective):

1. Who needs to communicate

2. Where those who need to communicate are/will be located

3. What bands are suitable to accomplish said communications over said distances (ISR/VHF/HF)

4. Availability of needed resources

5. Availability of required Comms-rated personnel

6. Who can use alternate forms of communication or can do without when resources are not available.

7. Failure recovery (equipment, power, operator unavailability due to illness/accident, etc).

8. Sustainability (keeping batteries charged, having replacement operators, being able to expand if/when the mission does, etc)

[lordmonar]

Also consideder any inter agency MOUs.  If doing a ground search with the local sherif....do you have an MOU to use their freqs? Do you have them programed in your radios?  Do they have equipment that they can loan you if you can't use CAP radior (UHV vs VHF, encription, etc).

[maverik]

Also where do you guys print forms?  Currently I'm looking for a way to print my forms in quantities (about how many do you have in a binder/ carrying case for comms at a time?) so i can bring them to an upcomin SAREX I will also have my Laptop and USB drive I will use.

[lordmonar]

Also where do you guys print forms?  Currently I'm looking for a way to print my forms in quantities (about how many do you have in a binder/ carrying case for comms at a time?) so i can bring them to an upcomin SAREX I will also have my Laptop and USB drive I will use.

We don't use forms.  We use the IMU and maybe a not pad to take notes on the fly.

[JoeTomasone]

Also where do you guys print forms?  Currently I'm looking for a way to print my forms in quantities (about how many do you have in a binder/ carrying case for comms at a time?) so i can bring them to an upcomin SAREX I will also have my Laptop and USB drive I will use.

We don't use forms.  We use the IMU and maybe a not pad to take notes on the fly.

Ditto.

[vento]

Also where do you guys print forms?  Currently I'm looking for a way to print my forms in quantities (about how many do you have in a binder/ carrying case for comms at a time?) so i can bring them to an upcomin SAREX I will also have my Laptop and USB drive I will use.

We don't use forms.  We use the IMU and maybe a not pad to take notes on the fly.

We use the IMU during SAREX and actual missions as well, but forms are still required. I can think of F104 for the flight crew, F109 for ground team, and F60 for everybody. I would think that a personal Laser printer should suffice for printing most forms that you will need. If you really need in large quantities, then I'd suggest you to take it to some place like Kinko's and print the forms, get a receipt so that you can get reimbursed.

BTW, the ICS forms are recommended to be used during planning if you know how to use them, you gain valuable experience with the forms and will feel comfortable during inter agency operations down the road. In CAWG, many activities are now planned based on the ICS structure where you have the various section chiefs, etc, etc... IMHO, the initial on line training IS-100; IS-200; IS-700; IS-800 doesn't really prepare an individual to fully understand how to properly use the forms and why the forms are designed the way they are. ICS-300 and ICS-400 courses are highly recommended. In short, try to use the forms if you are in the planning section. If you are not, then a notepad will do.

[maverik]

I'm  a cadet so I'm not to familiar with IMU would this be a tool I could use? If not I'll stick with the forms and what not.  I'm getting this together now so if I'm selected as the CUL I can be good to go.

[Fubar]

I'm  a cadet so I'm not to familiar with IMU would this be a tool I could use? If not I'll stick with the forms and what not.  I'm getting this together now so if I'm selected as the CUL I can be good to go.

At the last OPEX I attended, the comm guys were doing CAP radio message forms, a radio log, and IMU at the same time. Apparently they didn't trust IMU and wanted a paper backup in cause of computer failure, although it was causing them some workload issues keeping all three current and accurate.

[arajca]

IMU has a nasty habit of not letting you log call to/from an aircraft if it doesn't have an ATD entered. Which, from my experience, is not just the aircraft failing to call in, it's also IMU clitching at the the right/wrong time. About the only consistant use of IMU I have seen lately is for sign in.

[Short Field]

I'm getting this together now so if I'm selected as the CUL I can be good to go.

If you are already a CUL, they should have trained you on what your locale uses.  Procedures vary between wings.

At the last OPEX I attended, the comm guys were doing CAP radio message forms, a radio log, and IMU at the same time.

We always have a radio log going even when we use the IMU.  It serves the same role as a scratch pad as you jot stuff down while talking to the sortie.  This is then entered into the IMU.  At the end of the day, the paper log is trashed.  We try to use two MROs, one on the mic with the paper log and one on the computer with the IMU.  A good MRO has the radio call entered by the time it is finished.  However, if it is a long radio call, it sometimes takes some deciphering and summarizing to get it coherent in the computer.  Using a radio message form is a good idea if you are passing messages from OSC/PSC/AOBD/IC to the aircraft and back.  I have seen a lot of verbal messages get screwed up.

IMU has a nasty habit of not letting you log call to/from an aircraft if it doesn't have an ATD entered.

I haven't seen this problem in the IMU.  I just created an incident in the IMU, built a sortie and launched it to test out this problem.  No issue.  I was able to do radio checks with the sortie before it launched (prior to a ATD).  The sortie does have to have been flight released before it will show up on the radio log.  That makes sense since they shouldn't be in the aircraft (outside of a pre-flight) until they have briefed and been released to fly. 

[maverik]

Alright can someone explain what IMU is (wow I feel ignorant asking that). I do know local SOP that's not the problem, in the pass we've kept paper hard records etc. so I was just figuring out if it would be better to print forms out then fill them out or fill them out via laptop.  As for MRO if we have to radios set up one will be A/C the other GT and they keep their own logs and we usually have one runner if viable. 

EDIT:
I have found a guide for IMU and from what I can tell I can basically enter what I need to for comm once I log in and navigate to the comm part.  Now my question is does this need to be approved by the IC nad can a cadet with the required quals be able to use this tool?   < In all reality I know my limitations and since I haven't had a formal class I will probably pass on IMU unless told to use it, but I stil want to know if cadets generally usually use it.

[Short Field]

If your wing is not using the Incident Management Utility (IMU) for incidents, then you have no business using it either.  It takes wing support to be able to use the IMU.  You would first have to have a valid wing database loaded into the IMU.  You also have to create the incident in the IMU, sign in the people participating, sign in the vehicles and aircraft, create the taskings, build and assign the crews, etc, etc, etc.  It is not a program for one or two people to use when the rest of the mission base positions are not using it.  If your wing is using it, then everyone uses it.  Cadets assigned to a position requiring the IMU would use it to accomplish the duties of that position.

In our wing, at the close of a incident, the IMU files and photos are easily downloaded to a CD.  This includes all the comm logs, position logs, Fm 104s, 109s, IAPs, etc.  The fuel receipts are faxed to a computer file and downloaded to the same CD.  The CD is then labeled and stored in a CAP Fm 115, ES Mission Folder.  That satisfies all the record keeping and documentation required for a incident.  THIS is probably the major advantage of the IMU over other systems and ways of managing a mission.       

[wuzafuzz]

I'll take paper forms over IMU any day of the week.  The only infrastructure needed is something to write with.  Contrast that to IMU which requires a computer, getting the software running on that computer, reliable power, and networking of some kind for the most benefit.

Since I'm usually operating in some borrowed facility I already have to set up radios, power supplies, antennas and masts, not to mention tables and chairs.  Adding computers and networking to the mix puts me over the edge, and I'm a computer guy in my day job!  If we had permanent facilities (even a trailer) we could depend on I might feel differently.

[Short Field]

How do you release your flights through WMIRS without internet access?  You can run the IMU very successfully without networking or the internet.  However, the larger the mission, the greater the need for additional computers.

[wuzafuzz]

I'll take paper forms over IMU any day of the week.  The only infrastructure needed is something to write with.  Contrast that to IMU which requires a computer, getting the software running on that computer, reliable power, and networking of some kind for the most benefit.

Since I'm usually operating in some borrowed facility I already have to set up radios, power supplies, antennas and masts, not to mention tables and chairs.  Adding computers and networking to the mix puts me over the edge, and I'm a computer guy in my day job!  If we had permanent facilities (even a trailer) we could depend on I might feel differently.

I should have clarified that my earlier comments were only intended to address using IMU for communications logs.  Some Internet connectivity is needed for other purposes, including WMIRS as Short Field mentioned.

[CommGeek]

How do you release your flights through WMIRS without internet access?  You can run the IMU very successfully without networking or the internet.  However, the larger the mission, the greater the need for additional computers.

You use the F99 release in the e-release tool. do a 104 & F99, and upload it later.  you do NOT need internet to run IMU or a mission...
We have had great luck running a 'local' network with a 'local' IMU Server.  You do have to make provisions to use a real router, not a little linksys router.  But a commercial grade router if you are going to use more than a handfull of computers.  We 'broke' several routers in large scale missions....  Cisco Rocks!

[CommGeek]

You should have covered the forms in question in your ICS-300 course, a required element of CUL.

in the 'Real World' They are used all the time you have a complex communications plan.

[CommGeek]

I'll take paper forms over IMU any day of the week.  The only infrastructure needed is something to write with.  Contrast that to IMU which requires a computer, getting the software running on that computer, reliable power, and networking of some kind for the most benefit.

Since I'm usually operating in some borrowed facility I already have to set up radios, power supplies, antennas and masts, not to mention tables and chairs.  Adding computers and networking to the mix puts me over the edge, and I'm a computer guy in my day job!  If we had permanent facilities (even a trailer) we could depend on I might feel differently.

You might consider building a portable IMU server.  We are using the standard CAP issued HP Laptop (With some extra RAM) running IIS and an FTP Server , coupled with a refurbished cisco router and a switch as a portable IMU - IT  solution for "bare Base" operations.   Lets face it, we are not always going to be in a perfect facility with internet, phone, power....  We have to be prepared to bring it all with us.

[heliodoc]

AND in the Real World

There are PLENTY of paper copies given to crews and provided in the ICP, Staging areas, fire camps,etc for everyone to see

PAPER..... and copies given to each aircrew,helitack, engine, etc is handed out each day while on the incident.

IAP's  with Comm Plans are posted on Status boards across different incidents....don't see many First Response types carrying laptops to the scene...only in their rigs going to the incident.

The idea CAP is going everywhere where there is Internet access seems like they got the Internets and satellite links ALL sewed up to operate... Better a have a file with all the ICS forms and pens/ pencils available when the Internet feces hits the fan during some serious incidents!

Still need paper copies ...not everyone "gots" all the hookups needed for Internet.

Paper for backup......what happens when alll the Internets go down?   Better have paper backup for later entries so one does not have to recall what happened at the incident 2 weeks later....leaving alot to error..

Paper backup is mentioned earlier in this thread....better think about when the IMU goes AFU / SNAFU / TU!!