Training & requalifying or revalidating, whatever

[mynetdude]

Things change all the time so as I could not quite get a direct answer.

SQTRs expire every 2 years, to maintain currency do you have to do the whole training all over again or do you just do a review? For those who regularly perform duties & tasks in a specific SQTR would already be current as long as they routinely perform their duties correctly why do they need to re-qualify as long as the said member is aware of any policy changes within their squadron, wing, region and even NHQ levels.

My other question is concerning mission credit for SQTR training. IIRC any mission whether it is a SAREX or actual can count towards mission credit.  What about FTXs? Remember, the wing nor region nor NHQ are required to fund the mission; the members COULD fund it if they really wanted to.  I was involved in some training where fuel was paid for for the corporate vehicles (I am not sure from which funds, but that is besides the point even if a member covered the fuel costs).  can non mission FTXs still receive training mission credit for participation?

[MSgt Van]

Even if it isn't funded, you can get a mission number assigned for a local training exercise. Shouldn't be a problem. Hasn't been here anyway.

[RADIOMAN015]

Even if it isn't funded, you can get a mission number assigned for a local training exercise. Shouldn't be a problem. Hasn't been here anyway.

Unfortunately, though you are going to have to get an Incident Commander & at least a Safety Officer also for a mission number.

I tend to agree with you that IF you are performing mission/functions requiring that skill on on a regular basis (e.g. radio operations), it should warrant a continuing update of the qualification rather than every two years.  There doesn't seem to be a method in the system to do this.  You will need a mission #.

I think money could be saved CAP wide by looking at having smaller exercises/training opportunities, with less time overall.   I would think 4 hours max of intensive training would be enough to allow continued certification.
RM

[mynetdude]

ah ok,

too bad you need an IC and/or MSO

but you can still do an FTX without an IC, and in theory probably not without an MSO though that'd look bad. Just wouldn't get credit without the IC.

[Eclipse]

Unfortunately, though you are going to have to get an Incident Commander & at least a Safety Officer also for a mission number.

It depends on your Wing - generally missions try to have an MSO, but like all things in the real world, if there isn't a warm body, the IC / CC is responsible until one is found.

Most wings also publish a monthly aircrew mission number which can be used to fly the scenarios in the back of 60-1 for aircrews to get and maintain qualifications.  There's at least one that be used to assist ground personnel as well.  These do not require an IC - only the gas money and the people.

[IceNine]

And missions only require an IC to sign the paperwork.  They don't have to be on site.

Best thing you can do is make nice with an IC in your wing prove that you can play by their rules when they aren't around and have them sign the paperwork when you're done.

[Short Field]

SQTRs expire every 2 years, to maintain currency do you have to do the whole training all over again or do you just do a review?

Most SQTRs expire every three years.  IAW CAPR 60-3, the evaluator can redo a few tasks or all the tasks.

For those who regularly perform duties & tasks in a specific SQTR would already be current as long as they routinely perform their duties correctly why do they need to re-qualify as long as the said member is aware of any policy changes within their squadron, wing, region and even NHQ levels.

How do you know they are still performing their duties correctly if you don't have someone who is also qualified in that achievement review them?  Normally, a re-validation and renewal would take place between the 2nd and 3rd year on a mission or SAREX without a great deal of hoopla.

My other question is concerning mission credit for SQTR training. IIRC any mission whether it is a SAREX or actual can count towards mission credit.  What about FTXs?

What is a FTX and where is it defined in the regulations?  Is it an encampment?  Or are you just camping out as a squadron activity.  The reason CAP wants the training to be conducted on a actual or training mission is to make sure you know how to get signed in, deploy, communicate, and redeploy on a mission.  Are you doing ground tasks?  Then it might be good to know how to be briefed/debrief by a GBD.  I push local units to conduct their FTXs as part of a SAREX.  That gives them a chance to get funding for fuel and provides AFAM insurance and liability coverage for the adults.

[mynetdude]

SQTRs expire every 2 years, to maintain currency do you have to do the whole training all over again or do you just do a review?

Most SQTRs expire every three years.  IAW CAPR 60-3, the evaluator can redo a few tasks or all the tasks.

For those who regularly perform duties & tasks in a specific SQTR would already be current as long as they routinely perform their duties correctly why do they need to re-qualify as long as the said member is aware of any policy changes within their squadron, wing, region and even NHQ levels.

How do you know they are still performing their duties correctly if you don't have someone who is also qualified in that achievement review them?  Normally, a re-validation and renewal would take place between the 2nd and 3rd year on a mission or SAREX without a great deal of hoopla.

My other question is concerning mission credit for SQTR training. IIRC any mission whether it is a SAREX or actual can count towards mission credit.  What about FTXs?

What is a FTX and where is it defined in the regulations?  Is it an encampment?  Or are you just camping out as a squadron activity.  The reason CAP wants the training to be conducted on a actual or training mission is to make sure you know how to get signed in, deploy, communicate, and redeploy on a mission.  Are you doing ground tasks?  Then it might be good to know how to be briefed/debrief by a GBD.  I push local units to conduct their FTXs as part of a SAREX.  That gives them a chance to get funding for fuel and provides AFAM insurance and liability coverage for the adults.

How do you know they are doing it correctly? Well for one, somebody will hopefully be with them to spot out the obvious if they are doing it wrong, if NOT then a simple "spot" check with random questions generated by proceedures you would follow in the SQTR tasks you must complete.

If they fail to remotely do it correctly or explain a procedure correctly then they need to retrain. if they get it mostly correct with a minor slight then a minor explanation/correction is needed (or a nasty knock on the head! )

FTX=Field Training Exercise, everybody should know how to sign in regardless of what position you are going to augment, if somebody has trouble learning how to sign in as an AOBD well golly they should be stripped of their AOBD quals and go back to being an MSA because THAT is the basic fundamental position that teaches them the ins/outs of a mission at the heart of the mission structure.

I don't see how doing a UDF core training or FLM core training, etc needs an IC, I can understand the need for an MSO just to obtain a mission # for insurance purposes however most of us are adults who can conduct ourselves responsibly (I sure hope so!) if a safety issue arises we should ALL be able to stop and reassess and mitigate for these safety issues whether we have a "true" MSO on site because after all we "all" are "safety officers"

anyway, no big deal, good insights

[Short Field]

How do you know they are doing it correctly? Well for one, somebody will hopefully be with them to spot out the obvious if they are doing it wrong, if NOT then a simple "spot" check with random questions generated by proceedures you would follow in the SQTR tasks you must complete. 

That, Sir, is a renewal - unless the person checking them out is NOT qualified in the achievement.

FTX=Field Training Exercise, 

Thank you - after doing at least two FTXs a year for 28 years in the military, I had forgotten what they were.  And where in CAP does a FTX come in?  Couldn't find any reference to a FTX in 60-1 or 60-3.  The FTXs I have seen locally were not much more than overnight camping trips. 

everybody should know how to sign in regardless of what position you are going to augment, if somebody has trouble learning how to sign in as an AOBD well golly they should be stripped of their AOBD quals and go back to being an MSA because THAT is the basic fundamental position that teaches them the ins/outs of a mission at the heart of the mission structure. 

If they are not showing up on SAREXs or SARs for the training, how are they getting the flow of a misison?  Are you actually trying to renew a AOBD on a FTX instead of a mission?  MSA's are nice to have around, but nothing in their SQTR teaches them the ins/outs of a mission.

I don't see how doing a UDF core training or FLM core training, etc needs an IC, 

The only achievement that requires an IC for core training is IC.  Training on a task and even evaluation on a task only requires someone who is qualified on the task and holds a SET achievement.  Don't confuse core training with the requirement for mission participation.  Without mission participation, a person might know specific tasks but doesn't really know how a mission operates.  Sort of the difference between academic knowledge and real-world experience.

[Short Field]

Remember, the wing nor region nor NHQ are required to fund the mission; the members COULD fund it if they really wanted to. 

Absolutely.  I have been on SAREXs with B mission numbers where we flew numerous sorties and the entire SAREX was 100% member funded.  I have also been on SAREXs that were totally tabletop exercises with zero funding.  They also had B mission numbers.

[mynetdude]

How do you know they are doing it correctly? Well for one, somebody will hopefully be with them to spot out the obvious if they are doing it wrong, if NOT then a simple "spot" check with random questions generated by proceedures you would follow in the SQTR tasks you must complete. 

That, Sir, is a renewal - unless the person checking them out is NOT qualified in the achievement.

FTX=Field Training Exercise, 

Thank you - after doing at least two FTXs a year for 28 years in the military, I had forgotten what they were.  And where in CAP does a FTX come in?  Couldn't find any reference to a FTX in 60-1 or 60-3.  The FTXs I have seen locally were not much more than overnight camping trips. 

everybody should know how to sign in regardless of what position you are going to augment, if somebody has trouble learning how to sign in as an AOBD well golly they should be stripped of their AOBD quals and go back to being an MSA because THAT is the basic fundamental position that teaches them the ins/outs of a mission at the heart of the mission structure. 

If they are not showing up on SAREXs or SARs for the training, how are they getting the flow of a misison?  Are you actually trying to renew a AOBD on a FTX instead of a mission?  MSA's are nice to have around, but nothing in their SQTR teaches them the ins/outs of a mission.

I don't see how doing a UDF core training or FLM core training, etc needs an IC, 

The only achievement that requires an IC for core training is IC.  Training on a task and even evaluation on a task only requires someone who is qualified on the task and holds a SET achievement.  Don't confuse core training with the requirement for mission participation.  Without mission participation, a person might know specific tasks but doesn't really know how a mission operates.  Sort of the difference between academic knowledge and real-world experience.

Perhaps I am using the term FTX incorrectly because you are right, a FTX would be a weekend out somewhere away from civilized life my bad.  I was just referring to FTX as field work away from mission base such as aircrew, GT, UDF, etc.

How about I clarify what I mean by renewal, instead of having to demonstrate completely from square one why not be asked a few questions and if you can answer them fully in detail exceptionally well then you would be excused from full retraining and be requalified and get signed off.  I am glad i went to do my entire UDF quals all over again, I never obtained my two missions needed to qualify for reasons I won't explain however when I go to re-qualify in 2-3 years I don't expect to have to dinker around all day retraining unless A) the procedure has completely changed or significantly differs from previous training (and hopefully I would have been updated/up to speed on current changes rather than waiting until renewal) B) I am unable to answer procedural questions correctly and C) if I am training new UDF trainees.

if they are not showing up for SAREXs and SARs I'd have to wonder why I would put them on a UDF team on a SAR if they are not regularly attending a SAREX.

IMHO it is nice to be able to train on a specific position/item that can be somewhat complex like GT or UDF.  I am sure AOBD doesn't take 45 hours to train, they need to know how to use the IMU and understand procedures and their responsibilities.  I have attended several SAREXs and I in my opinion see lack of attention/detail for each area of position because they are trying to run a mission not train them.

I am not suggesting mission procedures be excluded from academics, because for a UDF team to be launched you need an GBD or Operations (I think) but I am sure the IC can handle that if there is not enough staffing. However I do not believe having to start at sign in all the way up the line just to teach UDF is necessary to obtain a mission #

when I started off as MSA I learned how the different departments communicate (though it is NOT a specific requirement to do so).  I learned how to properly check people in, how to check vehicles in, how to create sorties so that the departments in question could just select the sortie and enter their information as needed, I learned how it all starts at the top and makes is way down to the bottom and back up and how MSAs do other tasks such as escorting personnel and media.

So I can safely say as an MSA IMHO can learn the basic in/out of a mission. FWIW this IMHO lets you see the overall of what goes on without just diving into say GTM and never really getting an idea of what all you can do.  The MSA position allows you to at a minimum gets you involved in the mission in some capacity and learn about the other positions otherwise if you have nothing but your GES all you can do is sit and watch.

[mynetdude]

Remember, the wing nor region nor NHQ are required to fund the mission; the members COULD fund it if they really wanted to. 

Absolutely.  I have been on SAREXs with B mission numbers where we flew numerous sorties and the entire SAREX was 100% member funded.  I have also been on SAREXs that were totally tabletop exercises with zero funding.  They also had B mission numbers.

You probably had an IC or MSO available to get an eligible B number???

[Short Field]

You don't need a MSO.  Getting an IC should not be a problem.  The mission number should be readily issued by your wing ESO..  IAW 60-3, renewals do not require completing every task, just a sampling.  It is up to the evaluator.   

Your comment about the people on SARs and SAREXs being too busy trying to run a mission to train people is sadly too too true.  However, the experience of trying to get your part of the mission done while everyone else is running around in a frenzy is part of the learning process.   

[tsrup]

I find that actual training should take place outside of a SAREX, with the SAREX being an evaluation of the knowledge/knowledges and demonstration of the skills the member has learned.  This helps cut down on the issue of not having enough time to train and also allows things to go relatively more smoothly when the actual SAREX is being conducted because the trainee already (should) have a grasp of the concepts.  Make sure someone with an SET and the ops qual being trained is on the ground team with the member and keep an eye on them.

Now if I could just convince all the seniors in my squadron that they can on occasion take a class WITH the cadets I wouldnt have to teach the same course twice and this theory would be better put into practice...