My BBDU experiment: after two years, I be done with this nonsense

[Panache]

Again if you feel so strongly about fixing our perceived uniform issue submit your app, pay your dues and run your ideas up the chain.  The NUC is here for members to present ideas and help with establishing our uniform policy.

Does it really matter where the idea comes from?  Sometimes a little outside perspective is a good thing.

Also, I gotta agree with shuman14.  This isn't the NUC.  CAPTalk is (supposed to be) a open forum.  Agree or disagree with his ideas, but all this attacking-the-messenger is tiresome.

[abdsp51]

I have yet to attack anyone.  And yes this is an open forum with a targeted audience and yes this is not the NUC, however it's the mentality of you are broke and here's the fix that is tiresome. 

If Shuman14 believes so strongly that we should wear Khaki then he needs to submit his app, pay the dues and run it up the chain.  And this is not the first time he has come here with the you're broke I'm going to fix it approach.

If he or you do not like the responses then simply don't read them and chime in. 

[SarDragon]

Presence or lack of moving parts has little to do with the situation.

It really does - modern scales use a transducer or strain gauge to judge the weight, a purely electronic process,
and not one which is prone to going out of whack because of abuse, and certainly not to the accuracy needed for this.

Believe it or now, one million years ago, I used to do calibration of panel meters and transducers for use in science and
industrial applications.  More shocking is that I just looked up the company and while they have moved, they are still in business
and those !@#$% meters still look basically the same!

Eclipse speaks the truth.  Metrology (not meteorology, which is the "art" of trying to guess what the weather will bring) is a very exact, very specific science.  I had a metrology technician at my job show me just how off the mark most commercial off-the-shelf measurement tools are.  It was quite enlightening.

Who are you supporting here? you've reinforced what I said, but seemingly agree with Eclipse, whom I disagree with.

I got into metrology in 1973, in the Navy, and taught at their school 10 years later. I did it in the civilian world for a while, too, during and after my 21 years in the Navy.

[Shuman 14]

I have yet to attack anyone.  And yes this is an open forum with a targeted audience and yes this is not the NUC, however it's the mentality of you are broke and here's the fix that is tiresome. 

If Shuman14 believes so strongly that we should wear Khaki then he needs to submit his app, pay the dues and run it up the chain.  And this is not the first time he has come here with the you're broke I'm going to fix it approach.

If he or you do not like the responses then simply don't read them and chime in.

Oh yah you're not attacking me. 

You're missing my point, I don't care if you wear khaki or pink and purple.  I think CAP needs to be one uniform. AF Blue, Navy Blue, Black, Khaki is just a color... uniformity is the issue.

Why did I pick Khaki? CAP as an Auxiliary of the Air Force needs to have a uniform that is acceptable to them.

Since the USAF has worn khaki and Air Force Blue as their uniform color, these two colors should be the most acceptable to them.

Now my number one choice would be for everyone in CAP to wear an USAF-style uniform, but for various reasons, the Air Force will not allow everyone to wear their uniform.

So an alternative must be found. I personally liked your Corporate Blue Service Uniform, I didn't agree with rule that said no Military decorations and badges on it, but other than that I thought it was a sharp uniform.

Martial but not military.

But the Air Force didn't like it, to close to comfort for them, so back to the drawing board you go.

My suggestion of Khaki is mostly driven by the history of CAP, it was your first uniform color.

But if the NUC thought lime green would be a better choice, great, just as long as everyone is in lime green.

So ignore my suggestions if you like... tell me I'm not in my lane... tell me to fix problems that don't exist in the USCGAux... it doesn't really matter... the issue/problem that CAP itself says it has with its "chimera" uniforms will still exist.

I'll also throw this out there as food for thought. I think one of the reasons that some CAP members cling to the USAF-style uniform when they KNOW they are too big or too hairy is the prohibition against wearing military stuff on a Corporate uniform.

I believe if you removed that rule, you'd see a broader acceptance of the white/grey Service uniform.

Again, just a suggestion. Take it for what it is worth.

[Shuman 14]

Again if you feel so strongly about fixing our perceived uniform issue submit your app, pay your dues and run your ideas up the chain.  The NUC is here for members to present ideas and help with establishing our uniform policy.

Does it really matter where the idea comes from?  Sometimes a little outside perspective is a good thing.

Also, I gotta agree with shuman14.  This isn't the NUC.  CAPTalk is (supposed to be) a open forum.  Agree or disagree with his ideas, but all this attacking-the-messenger is tiresome.

BTW, thank you for your support.

[abdsp51]

I have yet to attack anyone.  And yes this is an open forum with a targeted audience and yes this is not the NUC, however it's the mentality of you are broke and here's the fix that is tiresome. 

If Shuman14 believes so strongly that we should wear Khaki then he needs to submit his app, pay the dues and run it up the chain.  And this is not the first time he has come here with the you're broke I'm going to fix it approach.

If he or you do not like the responses then simply don't read them and chime in.

Oh yah you're not attacking me. 

You're missing my point, I don't care if you wear khaki or pink and purple.  I think CAP needs to be one uniform. AF Blue, Navy Blue, Black, Khaki is just a color... uniformity is the issue.

Why did I pick Khaki? CAP as an Auxiliary of the Air Force needs to have a uniform that is acceptable to them.

Since the USAF has worn khaki and Air Force Blue as their uniform color, these two colors should be the most acceptable to them.

Now my number one choice would be for everyone in CAP to wear an USAF-style uniform, but for various reasons, the Air Force will not allow everyone to wear their uniform.

So an alternative must be found. I personally liked your Corporate Blue Service Uniform, I didn't agree with rule that said no Military decorations and badges on it, but other than that I thought it was a sharp uniform.

Martial but not military.

But the Air Force didn't like it, to close to comfort for them, so back to the drawing board you go.

My suggestion of Khaki is mostly driven by the history of CAP, it was your first uniform color.

But if the NUC thought lime green would be a better choice, great, just as long as everyone is in lime green.

So ignore my suggestions if you like... tell me I'm not in my lane... tell me to fix problems that don't exist in the USCGAux... it doesn't really matter... the issue/problem that CAP itself says it has with its "chimera" uniforms will still exist.

I'll also throw this out there as food for thought. I think one of the reasons that some CAP members cling to the USAF-style uniform when they KNOW they are too big or too hairy is the prohibition against wearing military stuff on a Corporate uniform.

I believe if you removed that rule, you'd see a broader acceptance of the white/grey Service uniform.

Again, just a suggestion. Take it for what it is worth.

Cite please on bolded aspects?  Outside of members here I have yet to see this...

[Shuman 14]

Really? Are you being intentionally obtuse? 

Read the CAPTalk Uniform& Awards forum much?


So CAPTalk must be a very small vocal minority?

[abdsp51]

Really? Are you being intentionally obtuse? 

Read the CAPTalk Uniform& Awards forum much?


So CAPTalk must be a very small vocal minority?

There is no concrete, solid, facts that NHQ believes there is a chimera of uniforms, nor that the USAF killed the CSU.  This is an unofficial board and is subject to perception and opinions. 

The issue with uniforms is that people choose to wear what they shouldn't and there is no enforcement, because no one wants to be the bad guy or hurt someone's feelings. 

And if you want your suggestions to be taken seriously and considered, join,  until you have a ID card fix issues that come up with the Army and the CGAux. 

[Panache]

If he or you do not like the responses then simply don't read them and chime in.

Doctor, heal thyself.  (ahem)

[Shuman 14]

Really? Are you being intentionally obtuse? 

Read the CAPTalk Uniform& Awards forum much?


So CAPTalk must be a very small vocal minority?

There is no concrete, solid, facts that NHQ believes there is a chimera of uniforms, nor that the USAF killed the CSU.  This is an unofficial board and is subject to perception and opinions. 

The issue with uniforms is that people choose to wear what they shouldn't and there is no enforcement, because no one wants to be the bad guy or hurt someone's feelings. 

And if you want your suggestions to be taken seriously and considered, join,  until you have a ID card fix issues that come up with the Army and the USCGAux.

It seems then that since this is an unofficial board... your opinions are as equally unofficial as well.

But thanks for your suggestions... I'll take them as seriously as you take mine.

[PHall]

Really? Are you being intentionally obtuse? 

Read the CAPTalk Uniform& Awards forum much?


So CAPTalk must be a very small vocal minority?

CAPTalk is not the Air Force. I've seen a number of times here on CAPTalk where posters have said that "The Air Force" doesn't like something.
But when you press them for a cite it usually comes down to second, third and even fourth party hearsay.

And yes, the folks who post here on CAPTalk are a very small vocal minority. I would not take what you see here as "normal".

[Eclipse]

It seems then that since this is an unofficial board... your opinions are as equally unofficial as well.

Official?  No.

Relevant, informed, and self-interested?  Yes.

[jhsmith400]

In this debate earlier, it was brought up about H/W issues and uniforms, and if you are overweight you might be an issue to mission completion and safety, I beg you all to consider one additional thing, CAP has no medical retirement or age retirement.  Look at some of the senior squadrons many of those members are upwards of 60 + some of them are very able to hit H/W restrictions, but they are not really fit for the GT functions, so I would say in our group that weight isn't the only issue there.  Also with the changing face of our future ES taskings consideration should also be given to the mental fitness of our future ground teams, what ground teams could face in a disaster scene is very different to the things that a hike in the woods could be.  I feel that the make up of ground teams should follow more what the current mission is about then using a one size fits all template.  I would rather have a ground team on a disaster scene that has the maturity to face what may be seen then one than who is picked because they can hike in the woods without wheezing.

[RiverAux]

Also fairly good reasons to have some sort of fitness test for ground team members. 

[PHall]

Also fairly good reasons to have some sort of fitness test for ground team members.

Just about every "Ground Team" I've seen outside of CAP has a fitness test for their members.

[tribalelder]

Currently, our fitness for duty is on the honor system.

When I was a group commander the first time, I had a 101 card applicant for CN observer. Since I'd never heard of seen this guy on a mission, I stopped that application on currency. His whiny protest letter mentioned he had only one functioning eye.

Later, I knew of a GTL (and then group commander) who parked team vehicle in the handicap space on a sarex-he had the right placard.

A small number of our adult members are more interested in the military 'trappings' than our missions.

[go4spaatz]

I have created a purely subjective, inconclusive graph of deviation from topic compared to posts, based on this thread. It is attached for your enjoyment. Results are inconclusive, un-factual, and not to be taken (too) seriously.

[Eclipse]

Currently, our fitness for duty is on the honor system.

When I was a group commander the first time, I had a 101 card applicant for CN observer. Since I'd never heard of seen this guy on a mission, I stopped that application on currency. His whiny protest letter mentioned he had only one functioning eye.

Later, I knew of a GTL (and then group commander) who parked team vehicle in the handicap space on a sarex-he had the right placard.

A small number of our adult members are more interested in the military 'trappings' than our missions.

Just for the sake of discussion - neither of the above would preclude the respective members from being qualified or performing their duties, nor for that
matter necessarily obtaining the coveted SARTech ratings.

For the record, I've seen the same or worse from adhoc SAR people and whackers that show up to conferences, etc.  For every
hardkewl Urban Rescue Squad with technical capabilities, there are ten "Mom's shih tzu went to a class so she's a search dog" and  "4 guys who like
lights and tactical knives".  And worse, in a lot of cases, these guys get called more then we do for no other reason then they come with few rules
or expectations (i.e. "will work for SAR"), and >aren't< "The Federales".

We don't need no stinking badges!

[Shuman 14]

[SarDragon]