Main Menu

Requiring More of Units

Started by Earhart1971, February 07, 2006, 11:20:59 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Earhart1971

Funding Raising has never been a strength of CAP.

Fund raising needs to be focused at the unit level, not Wing, Region, or National.

Trickle down does not work for the Squadrons.

With a 15% Budget cut projected for 2007 at National, thats about 3 to 4 million less.

But CAP in general is falling in numbers, less cadets, less seniors, less Airplanes, Less Ground teams.

Example Florida Wing has 60 101 Ground Team members.

So there either is no use for Ground Teams, or the regs are so difficult (Lawyers) that nobody wants to bother with it.

20K gives a squadron a chance to be an actual squadron rather than two seniors and a handfull of cadets.

I am in favor of less squadrons, consolidate, and actually require strength numbers before you are given a charter.

If you don't have 50 active cadets, join another unit, that is a little better at recruiting.



BillB

It appears you're from Florida.  Your idea on consolidation is great if you live in Miami, Tampa or Orlando. But if you're in Leesburg, Tyndall/Panama City and other smaller communities that's impossible. Often the nearest Squadron is 50 to 75miles away, the Panhandle for example.  The answer is not consolidation but recruiting. The majority of Squadrons Nationally have poor recruiting programs. The majority of recruiting is by word of mouth by a cadet bringing a friend. Most seniors seem to join for the cheap flying. I've been in CAP long enough to see the program totally change direction, and become very watered down. I showed a Spaatz cadet the manuals that cadet previously used and he said that was much harder and in-depth than the cadet program he earned the Spaatz in.
So an answer is not consolidation, it's a Squadron examining it's reason to exist. The programs it is capable of accomplishing. To see if the cadet program is going to be a modified Boy (or Girl) Scout program. The problems in CAP are generally at the local level, combined with Nationals fear of liability. So any effort has to be at the Squadron level.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Pylon

Quote from: Earhart1971 on February 07, 2006, 11:20:59 PM
Funding Raising has never been a strength of CAP.

Fund raising needs to be focused at the unit level, not Wing, Region, or National.

Trickle down does not work for the Squadrons.

With a 15% Budget cut projected for 2007 at National, thats about 3 to 4 million less.

But CAP in general is falling in numbers, less cadets, less seniors, less Airplanes, Less Ground teams.

Example Florida Wing has 60 101 Ground Team members.

So there either is no use for Ground Teams, or the regs are so difficult (Lawyers) that nobody wants to bother with it.

20K gives a squadron a chance to be an actual squadron rather than two seniors and a handfull of cadets.

I am in favor of less squadrons, consolidate, and actually require strength numbers before you are given a charter.

If you don't have 50 active cadets, join another unit, that is a little better at recruiting.




Okay, this entire line of discussion has nothing to do with the pros and cons of the Civil Air Patrol Association.  I'm splitting this into a new discussion on unit fundraising, consolidation, and recruiting semantics.  Cheers...
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

dwb

I actually think we should require more of Wings (and Groups, for those Wings that have them).

There are squadrons out there that are drowning in the week-to-week work of administering programs.  They don't have time for growth, and even if they did, they don't know how to do it.

That is where Wings and Groups come in.  Being larger entities, they have a better chance at getting larger grants and member items in state budgets, which can then (in theory) be dolled out to the squadrons.

The people in the squadrons should be trained, assisted, and supported by higher echelons.

All this requires a much greater commitment on the part of the Group and Wing staff officers, most of whom are just as swamped with their lives as the rest of us.  Such is the problem in volunteer organizations.

Still, I don't think I've ever seen anything useful out of our Wing AE office, for example.  Other than requiring annual reports from the units, which isn't useful.  Where are these annual reports going?  What happens with them?  What data is collected from them?  How are good ideas being shared between the squadrons who submitted annual reports?  Anyone?  Bueller?

Ah, nothing.  Just what I expected.

On Earhart1971's comment about squadrons: even where I live, which could hardly be considered the boondocks, there is only one squadron in the county.  There are only two squadrons in the neighboring county, one of which is a senior squadron.  If you live in any county north of mine, too bad, you'll have to drive all the way down here.

So, if you're Jimmy 12-year-old, and you want to join CAP, what choices do you have?  Not many.  Consolidation would only drive away people who can't make the commitment to drive 50 miles one way for CAP.  We shouldn't require that of our members.  Consolidation for the sake of making it "easier to manage" is a very, VERY bad idea.

JAFO78

Consolidation is not the answer.

Here in Mn we have many squadron's, but the nearest squadron to me is at lest 1/2 hour - 45 min away. I will drive that far but I doubt many others will.

Most squadron's here are very good at fund raising, and recruiting is not too big of a problem, as far as I know.
JAFO

groundpounder

Fund raising has a couple of key elements that need to be in place before any unit will be successful.

1) Someone that is really motivated to spearhead the project.

2) Support of the units members.

3) A REAL MISSION to talk about.

4) Fund raising materials to use in support of the project.

5) An organizational method of raising funds that is uniform and supported at the Wing level.

I'm talking about real fund raising here, not bake sales and car washes. Corporations are willing to support local community organizations that make a difference and have a real mission. This means that they first must have some idea that the CAP even exists. That's where NHQ comes in.

We need a well prepared fund raising mailer that looks professional and illustrates why they should give us money (equipment, training, etc.) Our support of the Katrina relief efforts is a perfect backdrop for a fund raising campaign, as was 9/11. In the meantime, we can copy an article out of the new CAP magazine to support our application for funds.

If your unit does not have qualified people to go out and help in an emergency, it's hard to get support. Get your people trained! If you are raising money for the Cadet program, sell the leadership angle, tomorrow's community leaders etc.

One of the best ways to get donations is to have an employee / CAP member personally bring it in to the boss or who ever would be the decision maker. Corporations like to say that they support their employees that support the community. This places you in front of all the other organizations that are looking for cash. This means that the members have to be willing to take the effort to help with the project. If they have a neighbor that is the boss somewhere, ask him if he would take it into work for you.

Units should not have to jump through hoops to get Wing approval to raise funds. A turnkey fund raising program will help streamline the process. As it is currently configured, a unit that seeks to start a fund raising campaign has to apply to the Wing CC and face a barrage of questions (how, who, what, when etc.) that often makes the members say forgetaboutit! We are so wrapped up in worry about someone stealing $10 that we walk away from thousands. Good internal controls are fine, but let's not go too far in the process.

Make it easy for a unit to accept a donation. I always found it odd that a unit could accept $1,000 in cash but if they were to have a camera donated, the Wing CC has to accept the donation?? Why?? I can see us not wanting to accept donated cars and planes, but lets not get carried away.

Grants are another way of getting cash or equipment. Start with a wish list of what you need and put it on paper with justification of why you need it. (Digital camera to assist with damage assessment etc.)

Then go out and find corporations that provide grant funding and apply. You would be surprised how many organizations get grant dollars from corporations in you back yard.

The real key in my opinion is taking advantage of the strength behind the CAP organization and applying it locally. Don't go out and try to raise money as the Podunk Cadet Squadron, sell yourself as the local unit of the Civil Air Patrol that serves the local community. Start with the corporations in your back yard then branch out. Look for the ones that are always sponsoring the local events, they have the dollars to spend and the desire to support the community.

Ask for specific things, don't just say we need money. Solicit a corporation to buy you a digital camera or a radio, perhaps sponsor a local training exercise. When you are successful, make it public knowledge who gave you the money and why. If you get a significant donation, put out a press release which may help you get another from the same corporation again next year. Speak at a Chamber of Commerce or Lions Club dinner to get name recognition, anything to make it known that CAP is made up of Volunteers working to help the community.

It's hard work, but raising funds at the local level makes you the masters of your own domain. You get what you need without having to wait for it to filter down from Wing or National.

Earhart1971

Quote from: justin_bailey on February 08, 2006, 01:29:39 PM
IThere are squadrons out there that are drowning in the week-to-week work of administering programs.  They don't have time for growth, and even if they did, they don't know how to do it.

The people in the squadrons should be trained, assisted, and supported by higher echelons.


In a nut shell, thats the problem, drowning in paperwork.  CAP was inadvertantyly designed by Lawyers to make it difficult to run a successful squadron.

And support form Wings, Regions, Groups, please.

If it happens thats OK. But don't count on it.

Being a Squadron Commander is the best and the worst job in CAP, because its TAG YOU'RE IT.  You got to improvise, adapt, and overcome!

flyguy06

Every Squadron is differant and has a differant focus. My unit is focused on youths and aviation. We want to get as many young people interested in aviation careers as we can.

I do not think units should consolidate  because you have units in small towns wher epeople would have to commute an ahour toget to meetings. No one is goin to do that. Plus again, differant units have differant focus. The issue of fundraising nd getting the word out there about CAP should be a local issue. Scout Troops do this all the time. The yhave support fromhigher, but the bulk of he work is one at the local level.

groundpounder

Quote from: flyguy06 on February 09, 2006, 10:54:55 AM
The issue of fundraising and getting the word out there about CAP should be a local issue. Scout Troops do this all the time. They have support fromhigher, but the bulk of he work is one at the local level.

The key here is that everyone knows who the Boy Scouts are, not so with CAP. 9 out of 10 people either don't know who we are or what we do. The Boy/Girl Scouts are a household name, who can resist giving money to them???

They also have a professional fund raising campain. Girl Scout cookies are everywhere.

CAP has not even found the tip of the iceberg when it comes to fund raising because we do not have a National fund raising plan of any significance. We have started with the CAP Foundation, but that does not help the local units tap into the huge reservior of local fund raising opportunities. Think about it this way, if every CAP unit were able to raise $2,000 from the local community each year, that would be over three million dollars per year of found money.



dwb

Quote from: Earhart1971 on February 08, 2006, 10:04:45 PMBeing a Squadron Commander is the best and the worst job in CAP, because its TAG YOU'RE IT.  You got to improvise, adapt, and overcome!

You're preaching to the choir here, brother.  My most recent duty assignment was squadron commander.

My comments were based on my opinion that higher echelons need to actually support the field like they always claim to do.  I fully realize this is far from what is reality today.

fyrfitrmedic

 It would seem that the ability of local units to raise funds locally is almost entirely dependent on the willingness of higher echelons to grant permission to do so. This process needs to be at least somewhat standardized across the board in practice as well as 'in theory' and shouldn't take forever and a day.

One of these days, hopefully, someone way up the food chain will get a handle on the need for real marketing of the organization and its capabilities and offerings and provide some clueful top-down support. We don't need another bloody race car or any other misbegotten nonsense.

Consolidation of units may be appropriate in some cases here and there but is far from a 'one size fits all' solution. To believe otherwise is  IMHO a bit short-sighted and seems to incorporate the naive assumption that all CAP units are the same.

MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn

groundpounder

Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on February 09, 2006, 05:08:58 PM
It would seem that the ability of local units to raise funds locally is almost entirely dependent on the willingness of higher echelons to grant permission to do so. 


And therein lies the problem - Everyone is so afraid that someone will get a bigger piece of the pie or that they will steal $10 - so we don't get anything at all. In doing so, we leave thousands on the table and punish those honest members that just want to get some modern equipment for their unit.

I am sure that somewhere along the line it was discovered that someone in a local unit was raising funds and keeping the money, so rather than jail the perp, they created a regulation. This is how many organizations get bogged down in minutia because someone feels it necessary to create a new rule for every possible infraction, rather than looking at the big picture.

In many cases it all about control and ones ability to see the big picture.

Earhart1971

Quote from: RobG on February 08, 2006, 02:07:50 PM
Consolidation is not the answer.

Here in Mn we have many squadron's, but the nearest squadron to me is at lest 1/2 hour - 45 min away. I will drive that far but I doubt many others will.

Most squadron's here are very good at fund raising, and recruiting is not too big of a problem, as far as I know.

I see your point.

Fundraising is a problem with C A P, and I heard that there is a new rule, if you raise a certain amount it goes to Wing or National, I hope that's not true.

On Consolidation:

I am referring to an area that has 5 or 6 small squadrons within say 30 min drive of all.

That's just a bunch of enlarged Ego Squadron Commanders, who are struggling to fill staff positions, to make the squadron legal.

My point find the best Squadron Commander, and everybody get together and start a Squadron that makes sense, with local resources.

I'm a hard case, I could hold a Region, Wing or Group Job, but I will not ever, the Squadron is where the mission is accomplished, not in Wing Winniedom, LOL!

Earhart1971

Quote from: justin_bailey on February 09, 2006, 03:25:30 PM
Quote from: Earhart1971 on February 08, 2006, 10:04:45 PMBeing a Squadron Commander is the best and the worst job in CAP, because its TAG YOU'RE IT.  You got to improvise, adapt, and overcome!


My comments were based on my opinion that higher echelons need to actually support the field like they always claim to do.  I fully realize this is far from what is reality today.

We should get monitary support from up the chain, but that's not going to happen.

So, the program as it exists now, is totally dependent on the skill of the Squadron Commander and his staff.

Actually, My best time in CAP was as a Squadron Commander, other than my cadet days.

The moon was aligned properly with the stars.

I somehow found help, that knew the Cadet Program well, had a core of flustrated but knowledgable Cadets (the former commander was a nut case).

After three years, we had a grand total of about 25 Mitchell Awards.

2 Cadets went on to the Air Force Academy, One went to it on my last ditch effort to get him in through the AF Prep School Program.

1 former Cadet is an F-16 Pilot, two others went on as AF Flight Crew.

1 Marine

1 Army Officer

1 Teacher of the Year

1 Squadron Save.

And a bunch of them (Cadets) went on to the Military, and other productive roles in civilian Life.

It was a great time!

Then when I left as Commander, at 3 going on 4 years you need to step down and let someone else take the wheel.

The squadron lost their meeting place about a year later (how many times I have been through that), and the third Commander after I, just dropped the ball, and let the Squadron go.

PWK-GT

Quote from: Earhart1971 on February 09, 2006, 11:33:55 PM
Fundraising is a problem with C A P, and I heard that there is a new rule, if you raise a certain amount it goes to Wing or National, I hope that's not true.


Ah, yes, the new donation limits.
According to my Group Commander, individual squadrons are able to keep the funds if they do not exceed $5000.00.......after that, it goes to Wing and beyond. :(

Here's a thought: In order to PROMOTE fundraising, let the guy who finds it.....keep it. ALL OF IT.
Waive the current policy for one year, and look at the top gatherers for 'best practices'.
Just my $0.02
"Is it Friday yet"


Earhart1971

#15
Quote from: RvrPk01 on February 10, 2006, 05:54:52 AM
Quote from: Earhart1971 on February 09, 2006, 11:33:55 PM
Fundraising is a problem with C A P, and I heard that there is a new rule, if you raise a certain amount it goes to Wing or National, I hope that's not true.


Ah, yes, the new donation limits.
According to my Group Commander, individual squadrons are able to keep the funds if they do not exceed $5000.00.......after that, it goes to Wing and beyond. :(

Here's a thought: In order to PROMOTE fundraising, let the guy who finds it.....keep it. ALL OF IT.
Waive the current policy for one year, and look at the top gatherers for 'best practices'.
Just my $0.02

Is that per the CAP Finance Regs?

If it is then the lawyers have pulled another stunt to keep CAP small.

I know of Units that did have huge fund raisers, found a rich benefactor, and ended up with a their own brand new Hangar on the Airport, with Offices, and such, very rare the Unit that has done that, but it can be done.

But it appears they (upper level management) have closed that window.

During  my Squadron Commander years we became aware of the Boy Scout empire and their United Way and their own fund raising.

The Boy Scout Org is one of the biggest landowners in the United States.


MIKE

Quote from: CAPER 173-4Sec. B 7. Donations of Property. Selected solicitation campaigns may be effective to obtain donations of property such as computers, aircraft, vehicles, radios, etc. For aircraft and vehicles, prior approval is required from NHQ CAP/EX. A Donation Receipt must be executed for all donations of $250 or more where no goods or services are provided to the donor and all donations of $75 or more where goods or services are provided to the donor. See Attachment 1, which may be reproduced locally. It is important that it is completely filled out and a copy retained in the corporate officer's file accepting the donation. In addition, the donor may request an IRS Form 8283. You many obtain an IRS Form 8283, Noncash Charitable Contributions, and instructions at http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/. CAP officers who may accept property donations are:
a. Wing commanders − for donations of property valued by donor up to $5,000.
b. Region commanders − for donation of property valued by donor between $5,000 and $10,000.
c. Executive Director − for donations of property valued by donor in excess of $10,000.

8. Donation or Bequest of Money. A Donation Receipt is completed when money is donated or bequeathed to CAP. A Donation Receipt must be executed for all donations of $250 or more where no goods or services are provided to the donor and all donations of $75 or more where goods or services are provided to the donor. See Attachment 1, which may be reproduced locally. It is important that it is completely filled out and a copy retained in the corporate officer's file accepting the donation. Funds received by donation or bequest must be accounted for as required by CAPR 173-1, Financial Procedures and Accounting Report for Units Below Wing Level, and CAPR 173-2, Financial Procedures for CAP Regions and Wings. Units below wing level receiving donations or bequests in excess of $5,000 must notify their wing financial officer and NHQ CAP/FM within 30 days of receipt of the donation or bequest.
Mike Johnston

arajca

Quote from: MIKE on February 10, 2006, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: CAPER 173-4Sec. B 7. Donations of Property. Selected solicitation campaigns may be effective to obtain donations of property such as computers, aircraft, vehicles, radios, etc. For aircraft and vehicles, prior approval is required from NHQ CAP/EX. A Donation Receipt must be executed for all donations of $250 or more where no goods or services are provided to the donor and all donations of $75 or more where goods or services are provided to the donor. See Attachment 1, which may be reproduced locally. It is important that it is completely filled out and a copy retained in the corporate officer's file accepting the donation. In addition, the donor may request an IRS Form 8283. You many obtain an IRS Form 8283, Noncash Charitable Contributions, and instructions at http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/. CAP officers who may accept property donations are:
a. Wing commanders − for donations of property valued by donor up to $5,000.
b. Region commanders − for donation of property valued by donor between $5,000 and $10,000.
c. Executive Director − for donations of property valued by donor in excess of $10,000.

8. Donation or Bequest of Money. A Donation Receipt is completed when money is donated or bequeathed to CAP. A Donation Receipt must be executed for all donations of $250 or more where no goods or services are provided to the donor and all donations of $75 or more where goods or services are provided to the donor. See Attachment 1, which may be reproduced locally. It is important that it is completely filled out and a copy retained in the corporate officer's file accepting the donation. Funds received by donation or bequest must be accounted for as required by CAPR 173-1, Financial Procedures and Accounting Report for Units Below Wing Level, and CAPR 173-2, Financial Procedures for CAP Regions and Wings. Units below wing level receiving donations or bequests in excess of $5,000 must notify their wing financial officer and NHQ CAP/FM within 30 days of receipt of the donation or bequest.

OK. So the unit commadner cannot sign for property donations of more than $5000. It doesn't say that the donation must go to wing or higher. If someone gives a unit a hanger (I know, a wet dream), the unit has to get a higher level to accept it and assign it to the unit. I think higher levels would be happy to do that, as long as the unit does the appropriate paperwork.

And for cash, all the unit has to do is notify the wing financial officer and the National Finance Directorate, not give the money to wing. Now, there is an experiment running in one or two wings where ALL monies are turned into the wing and each unit has an 'account' at wing they draw upon for funds based on how much money they turn in.

Earhart1971

My question would be if you limit donations to $4999.00 per donation, if I read correctly you report the donation to the Wing Finance Officer, for donations over that amount.

And then you can discuss with Wing Finance whether you get to keep it or not (I know what I would say to the Wing Finance Officer), the over $5000 donation.

They spent a lot of time on this reg making it this way, what was the purpose of doing it..... never mind.... I don't want to hear the answer.... it wont make sense to a logical mind anyway.

arajca

Quote from: Earhart1971 on February 11, 2006, 12:07:24 AM
My question would be if you limit donations to $4999.00 per donation, if I read correctly you report the donation to the Wing Finance Officer, for donations over that amount.

And then you can discuss with Wing Finance whether you get to keep it or not (I know what I would say to the Wing Finance Officer), the over $5000 donation.
I'm not seeing how "report it to the Wing Finance Officer" equals "Give the money to Wing". I read that units that handle over $30,000 (appearently there are a couple) annually must work with the wing financial analyst on their reporting, but they still keep their money.

QuoteThey spent a lot of time on this reg making it this way, what was the purpose of doing it..... never mind.... I don't want to hear the answer.... it wont make sense to a logical mind anyway.
I think part of it came from SOx rules - the corporate accounting standards passed by Congress after the Enron debacle, and part came from trying to get an 'unqualified' audit - meaning everything was properly accounted for and tracked.