Potential members that like to show off

[Stonewall]

Did the title of this thread do it justice?

I manage my squadron's website so I get all the inquiries from folks interested in joining CAP, both cadet and senior.  In the past couple of weeks I've gotten 4 separate emails from folks showing an interest in flying for CAP, one was a local sports caster for www.news4jax.com who basically asked how he can fly for free.  I imagine there are several folks like that out there.  But what bothers me is when people email me listing every friggin qualification they have in an effort to impress someone.

In fact, in 2005 I got into an argument with my wing commander because an interested person sent me 3 separate emails with his 5 page resume attached which listed everything from former Intelligence Specialist to Level IV Ninja.  Just as I always do, I suggest they visit the squadron during our regular meeting and if they have any specific questions, please ask.  I also include the NHQ website.  This guy complained to the wing commander through the wing website that I didn't satisfy his request for information stating "I sent my resume to him 3 times".  He sent it to the Wing Queen and she attempted to scold me for passing up such an incredible potential member.   Grrr...

Most recently, yesterday in fact, I had a parent send an email explaining how his son is taking flight lessons, is some sort of Royal Ranger (equivalent of Eagle Scout), is a straight A student and track star.  As if we'd be honored and privileged to have him (as we compete against the 10 other activities he's involved in).

Anyone get this one?  Or is it just me?  I know, it's just me...

[Spike]

Not just you my friend.  There are people that think accomplishments define their life.  Sadly, they are mistaken.  I would rather take the guy living under the bridge who has a desire just to make coffee during the meeting than the guy with two airplanes, four kids and a dog who wants to be in CAP just for one more thing to add to his "I did this" book.

You will always have this, and anyone that says "not happening in my unit" is a liar or has no idea it is going on because they in fact are the person who we are referencing. 

[mmouw]

I say that the question that should be asked of them is "What can you do for CAP and not we can do for you." Depending on there answer, that will show everyone what their motives are. Not everyone is cut out for volunteerism.

[Rotorhead]

Tell 'em they're overqualified.

[Major Lord]

Ask them to prepare a lengthy power point presentation that the Sq members can laugh at scornfully while drinking beer.....I mean review for consideration for advanced promotion......

We have had a number of people who claim to have been green berets, seals, and in one particularly memorable experience, one person who claimed to be female, but would not show us errrr, her/his ID, and one pedophile in the process of being cashiered from a rather inglorious 12 month stay in the Air Force. All these people had incredible qualifications. And I mean just that-their claimed qualifications did not have credibility. They would have been more likely to be accepted as a member if they just showed up with a pulse and a desire to be there.

Major Lord

Major Lord

[LtCol057]

I had a possible new member call me about 6 weeks ago. He started out telling me his pilot qualifications, said he's a CFI, MEL, lots of other abbreviations.  Was really interested in the flying aspect. I told him that I expect all my pilots to become Oflight pilots, and work on MP status.  When I told him that I also expect all my pilots to do a squadron staff job, he really wanted to be a crew chief on the plane.  When I told him that I will not assign someone that is new to that job, I haven't heard from him since.  That part is irrelevant anyway, because we don't have a plane anymore. 

Maybe I have strigent expectations of our pilots.  My Ops Officer has suggested that all our aircrews also become UDF or GT qualified too.  And that's coming from a pilot. 

[N Harmon]

Has anyone else noticed that the more someone talks up their "qualifications", the more those qualifications end up being rather lame or made up? And conversely, the people who really do have amazing qualifications don't talk them up very much. I've seen this in and out of CAP.

[RiverAux]

Assuming that the person isn't one of those SEAL/Ranger wannabe types (of whom we unfortunately have to be suspicious), I see such things as a way to evaluate how we might be able to use that member.  At the initial introduction stage, its just fine.  Obviously, at some point we're going to need to see some documentation to back up whatever they say their training or qualifications might be. 

Keep in mind that they may be looking at this somewhat like a job interview and want to let us know some of the things that they're bringing to the table.   They WANT to join CAP and I would hope that everyone thinks that they have something worthwhile to offer. 

[jhsmith400]

I my experience some of these folks come to talk and not to work.  Hey I love a good warstory as much if not way more than the next guy but "what have you done for me lately".

[Spike]

Has anyone else noticed that the more someone talks up their "qualifications", the more those qualifications end up being rather lame or made up?

That is why I choose not to become qualified in anything.......being lame is a full time job!   

[♠SARKID♠]

I'd love to see their reactions when they come to the realization that their spec ops/SEAL skills or whatever won't do them any good when they have to organize that stack of personnel files in their boring new staff position.

[Stonewall]

I actually wasn't thinking about the bogus folks that like to brag, I was thinking of the ones who are actually qualified but like to make sure you know how much we'd benefit by having them in our squadron.

Here's one I got recently:

I am a 30 year old Navy veteran (8 yrs) and currently a Federal Agent with US Customs and Border Protection. I work as a RADAR/sensor operator on the P-3 Orion, PA-42 Cheyenne and helicopters as well. I have my Private Pilots License and currently wish to build time and hours and also help CAP as well. I have flown, and continue to fly, numerous counter-drug missions, SAR, surveillance etc. I have lots of aviation experience and would like to get more information about how to become a senior member but most of all a CAP pilot.

And...

My son is 16 and attends the Aviation Magnet Program at Frank H. Peterson.  He is also in Royal Rangers and earned the Gold Medal of Achievement (the equivalent to the Boys Scouts Eagle Order), runs track and will be taking flying lessons soon.

[jimmydeanno]

You know, it might not be that they're trying to sell themselves as "God's gift to CAP" but just trying to give you some insight into their background and motivation to join. 

I think if I received those, I'd be more comfortable hearing that than "Send me info on CAP."

The ones that I really worry about though are the ones that seem a bit over eager to "work with cadets." or the ones that say, "I was in the Army for 20 years and I think I can instill some discipline in the cadets."

[Strick]

I am very direct, I just tell people to get over them selfs.  Besides Im a MAJOR in the USAF AUX and fly right seat on a C-172     

[capchiro]

Stonewall, I will take the 30 yr. Navy vet and the 16 y.o. cadet.  Both sound good to me.  Both sound motivated and have accomplished a lot.  The military academies look for cadets and youngsters with a lot of credentials and activities to show that they can handle a lot of different things at one time.  I think you are looking at the wrong side of this situation.  Be glad for the opportunity to recruit such potential and then utilize it.  The 30 year Navy vet could make a good counter narcotics or GA8 pilot or Archer operator some day.  The cadet could reach Mitchell by the time he turns 18 with your assistance.  All of our cadets that have earned the Mitchell and have graduated from high school are with the military now.  Send them my way and I will use them.

[Stonewall]

I think you're missing the point. 

I genuinely appreciate all their accomplishments and qualifications.  That's great.  But a young man joining CAP so as to gain another checked box in their academy application, yet barely participate due to other outside activities is of little interest to me.  We've all had those cadets before; the ones who show up to 2 meetings a month or take 3 to 4 month breaks every year to make sure they've gone above and beyond to look marketable to a academy review board.  I want cadets to enjoy CAP, not simply use it.  It's a two way street as far as I am concerned.  You get out what you put in. 

As for the potential senior member, like so many others, his primary reason for possibly joining is to fly.  That's great, but please realize that you're not going to show up and fly on someone else's dime. 

Also, he is a 30 year old who is a Navy veteran, not a 30 year Navy veteran.

Trust me, I don't discourage anyone from joining.  I encourage them to visit our squadron to see us in action and learn more about our program.  But just like the 30 year old Navy veteran, once they learn it's not a matter of joining and flying, they usually go elsewhere.

I'm wondering, as far as pilots are concerned, if the economy has taken a toll on a lot of pilots who are looking for other ways of getting up in the air like joining CAP.

[gistek]

Sir:

Thank you for your interest in our unit of the Civil Air Patrol. I've forwarded your e-mail and resume to our Commander, Deputy Commander for (Seniors/Cadets), and (insert any other officers as needed).

Your military experience would be a big asset to our unit. We are always looking for people who can help our cadets master drill and military customs and courtesies.

We do have an active emergency services program, and can provide much of the training required, including practice with the Incident Command System.

Our cadet s meet every ___day evening from 7 to 9 pm, and our pilots and aircrew meet on the first ___day of every month. You can visit our website at http://www.______.___ for more information on our upcoming events and to see the agenda for our next meeting. We request all prospective members visit three times before committing to join our unit.

I look forward to seeing you at one of our meetings in the near future.

Sincerely
B____ Mc______, Capt, CAP
Unit Webmaster

[LtCol Hooligan]

I actually wasn't thinking about the bogus folks that like to brag, I was thinking of the ones who are actually qualified but like to make sure you know how much we'd benefit by having them in our squadron.

Here's one I got recently:

I am a 30 year old Navy veteran (8 yrs) and currently a Federal Agent with US Customs and Border Protection. I work as a RADAR/sensor operator on the P-3 Orion, PA-42 Cheyenne and helicopters as well. I have my Private Pilots License and currently wish to build time and hours and also help CAP as well. I have flown, and continue to fly, numerous counter-drug missions, SAR, surveillance etc. I have lots of aviation experience and would like to get more information about how to become a senior member but most of all a CAP pilot.

And...

My son is 16 and attends the Aviation Magnet Program at Frank H. Peterson.  He is also in Royal Rangers and earned the Gold Medal of Achievement (the equivalent to the Boys Scouts Eagle Order), runs track and will be taking flying lessons soon.

I actually like both of them as well.  I definately see your point about show offs and the talkers, but could these people be sending you this information because they feel like if they did not you would automatically disqualify them from membership.  Many people do not know much about CAP and may thiink they need to show you why you should take your time to meet with them.  Just a tought.  Oh and by the way, yes they definately could turn out to be BS, but that is why we have them visit a couple meetings prior to joining!!

[Smithsonia]

I've always thought that Level 1 separates the talkers from the doers. When people walk in the door, they don't know us, we don't know them. In a professional relationship a resume is used as a lead item of presentation.

There are many who just want to know what to do and they will accomplish it. After all they are accomplished people. Others just want to know where the plane is and; "hand me the keys, please." Level 1 usually reconciles the matter. Which I've always supposed was it's purpose.

[Pingree1492]

I actually like both of them as well.  I definately see your point about show offs and the talkers, but could these people be sending you this information because they feel like if they did not you would automatically disqualify them from membership.  Many people do not know much about CAP and may thiink they need to show you why you should take your time to meet with them.  Just a tought.  Oh and by the way, yes they definately could turn out to be BS, but that is why we have them visit a couple meetings prior to joining!!

^+1

It may just be that he's excited about the program and wants to join, so he sent you all the reasons why he'd be a good member.  From the inside, yes this is very annoying behavior.  I would reserve judgment though until after you've meet him in person at a meeting.

I've also experienced the folks that want to work with cadets, and are really eager to start, but have some mysterious, "thing" about fingerprinting.  Even showed up to a meeting ready to help out.  He saw the door pretty quick, and I haven't seen/heard from him since.

Like most people have already said, you'll get an idea of what this guy and his son really want from the program when they show up for the first time.  Be sure to fully explain your expectations up front.  If he's just there to fly, he'll disappear fairly quickly, as will his son.  There's nothing wrong with joining "just to fly".  That's what got me in the door- 12 years later I'm still here. 

Best of luck- I'm curious to hear how it turns out after he comes to a meeting.