What the AF thinks of CAP

[JoeTomasone]

again, youare comparing older more mature air force people with 18 and 19 year old airmen. of course they arent going to disrespect you to your face. they know better than that. But I am sure when the 19 year old airmen get togeher amongst themselves. they talk. You were young once right?

Actually, I've dealt with several young Airmen.   Your point is noted; I guess the point I was trying to make is that no one there has ever done anything consciously or unconsciously that gave me the impression that they considered me/CAP inferior to themselves.    What they do when I am not around I don't know (and pretty much don't care).   <shrug>

[MIKE]

This was a good one:

CAP Officers don't have souls, therefore, they don't need a rendering of a salute.

I don't know about you guys... but I can't determine if my lack of a soul is the result of my time in CAP, or my time wasted moderating CAP Talk.  [/soulless moderanger]

[RADIOMAN015]

In my 20+ years active Air Force Career, with the exception of one Air Force Base out of 8 US bases stationed at (one twice), I don't recall CAP ever being in the local base newspaper, asking for volunteers or just telling about the organization.  Most AF personnel don't come into contact with CAP members (except security personnel at the gates & patrols), because CAP meetings are at night or on the weekends, and the majority of the force is doing other things at those times.  I can't recall ever seeing any CAP personnel while I was on duty.   So most AF active duty members would be unable to formulate ANY opinion on our organization.

Might good a good idea for various PAO's to release a few stories to the local base newspaper.   Otherwise CAP will remain as an invisible organization to the majority of AF personnel, with the exception of perhaps seeing a Civil Air Patrol sign on an on base building.

RM      

[flyguy06]

How many Airmen do you think actually read the base newspaper? When i was a private on active duty, I think I may have seen it in the PX butunless Iwas just really really bored, I never picked it up.

We have a ot of older people in CAP that were in the military "back inthe day" and they like to reminice and talk about "back when I was on active duty" Well, things have changed since then. Young people are different, atitudes have cahnged. Values have changed.

The military of today is not the military of the 60's and 70's.

[RADIOMAN015]

How many Airmen do you think actually read the base newspaper? When i was a private on active duty, I think I may have seen it in the PX butunless Iwas just really really bored, I never picked it up.

We have a ot of older people in CAP that were in the military "back inthe day" and they like to reminice and talk about "back when I was on active duty" Well, things have changed since then. Young people are different, atitudes have cahnged. Values have changed.

The military of today is not the military of the 60's and 70's.

I have no idea what Army privates read or don't read, other than my opinion is the Army still lowers its' recruiting standards to fill their slots when compared to the Air Force

This hasn't changed much over time --- Most active duty AF personnel have other more pressing concerns (e.g. family, career, deployment, higher education, perhaps transition to civilian life), than to spend time formulating ANY opinion on Civil Air Patrol.

Personally, and organizationally, I could care less what a young airman, soldier, or marine thinks about our organization.    You dont' see a ground swell of civilian younger people (e.g. personnel in their 20's) joining CAP, so that won't be any different.

Other than the thread itself getting people fired up, it has no consequences overall to CAP's success or failure (with a few low ranking military members opinions are of CAP).     
RM       

[JohnKachenmeister]

This was a good one:

CAP Officers don't have souls, therefore, they don't need a rendering of a salute.

I don't know about you guys... but I can't determine if my lack of a soul is the result of my time in CAP, or my time wasted moderating CAP Talk.  [/soulless moderanger]

I was wondering why I could not see my reflection in a mirror!

[RogueLeader]

How many Airmen do you think actually read the base newspaper? When i was a private on active duty, I think I may have seen it in the PX butunless Iwas just really really bored, I never picked it up.

We have a ot of older people in CAP that were in the military "back inthe day" and they like to reminice and talk about "back when I was on active duty" Well, things have changed since then. Young people are different, atitudes have cahnged. Values have changed.

The military of today is not the military of the 60's and 70's.

I have no idea what Army privates read or don't read, other than my opinion is the Army still lowers its' recruiting standards to fill their slots when compared to the Air Force

This hasn't changed much over time --- Most active duty AF personnel have other more pressing concerns (e.g. family, career, deployment, higher education, perhaps transition to civilian life), than to spend time formulating ANY opinion on Civil Air Patrol.

Personally, and organizationally, I could care less what a young airman, soldier, or marine thinks about our organization.    You dont' see a ground swell of civilian younger people (e.g. personnel in their 20's) joining CAP, so that won't be any different.

Other than the thread itself getting people fired up, it has no consequences overall to CAP's success or failure (with a few low ranking military members opinions are of CAP).     
RM       

All the Generals and CSM's/CMSgt/Etc  all started somwhere right?  They don't serve forever do they?  If we want to ensure good relations, as best we can, we want to give everybody a good impersion.  That means getting them young, ie E-1/O-1.

[Short Field]

In my 20+ years active Air Force Career, with the exception of one Air Force Base out of 8 US bases stationed at (one twice), I don't recall CAP ever being in the local base newspaper, asking for volunteers or just telling about the organization. 

In 28 years active, I don't recall ever seeing a member of CAP in uniform or a CAP airplane.

[flyguy06]

How many Airmen do you think actually read the base newspaper? When i was a private on active duty, I think I may have seen it in the PX butunless Iwas just really really bored, I never picked it up.

We have a ot of older people in CAP that were in the military "back inthe day" and they like to reminice and talk about "back when I was on active duty" Well, things have changed since then. Young people are different, atitudes have cahnged. Values have changed.

The military of today is not the military of the 60's and 70's.

I have no idea what Army privates read or don't read, other than my opinion is the Army still lowers its' recruiting standards to fill their slots when compared to the Air Force

This hasn't changed much over time --- Most active duty AF personnel have other more pressing concerns (e.g. family, career, deployment, higher education, perhaps transition to civilian life), than to spend time formulating ANY opinion on Civil Air Patrol.

Personally, and organizationally, I could care less what a young airman, soldier, or marine thinks about our organization.    You dont' see a ground swell of civilian younger people (e.g. personnel in their 20's) joining CAP, so that won't be any different.

Other than the thread itself getting people fired up, it has no consequences overall to CAP's success or failure (with a few low ranking military members opinions are of CAP).     
RM       

And that is a problem for CAP. We need to recruit more young senior members.

[Smokey]

We do need to improve our image.  As mentioned here previously, we have senior members whose appearance is lacking and in some cases an abomination.  They look like 20 pounds of poop piled into a 5 pound bag.  Some smell like the poop and resemble it.  We need to police ourselves better.  What kind of respect can we expect when the RM sees a member in a stained and rumpled polo shirt and funky grey pants( or jeans or who knows what) who shows up at a military base or search base? 

We have threads that go on for pages and pages and days on how to avoid saluting. Every excuse imaginable to avoid saluting has been put forth by some. We have members who fail to return salutes from RM.  We have members who do their best to avoid looking or acting anything like military members.  And you wonder why we get no respect.  When Rodney Dangerfield looks and acts more professional than some of our members we deserve what we get. 

Some of you who resemble this depiction will yell and scream and curse me, but the truth hurts.

In my CAP postion as Operations Officer for Space Shuttle recovery I deal with regular AF, Reserve AF, Army and Navy folks not to mention NASA.  I have been treated with the utmost respect by all these folks.  Some had no idea what CAP was but treated me as an equal.  I do my best to look and act the part. The CAP crew that works with me are treated the same.  I think part of that is due to selection of personnel. I have tried to select members who look and act professionally (except for one guy who needs a haircut!!) and it has paid off.  We have received kudos from 1st AF and NORTHCOM.  The AF General in charge has treated me and my crew with the utmost respect and confidence. 

Look and act the part and you will notice the increase in respect you get.  Before you leave the house, look in a mirror and ask "Does my appeareance command respect?" If no, stay home.  If yes, the go forth and act in that respectful manner.


Carry on.

[jpizzo127]

Every year, for 4 years now my squadron and members from my group assist the local airport during the annual airshow.We help out with crowd control, etc. Each year, either the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds perform and we spend alot of time on the ramp with their NCO's.

My honest perception is the following: The NCO's have no idea who we are or what we do or how they should treat us. I make a special effort to get to know their names over the 4 days and offer whatever assistance they need. By the end of the long weekend, the generally seem to warm up, but always maintain a stand off attitude. What the root of it is, I've no idea, but many of them seem simply uncomfortable in my presence.

It can be challenging, going from a position of authority in your day job, or even in your CAP job, to being made to feel like a Pee-On by an 20 year old NCO, but I would not trade this detail. As a matter of fact, it's my favorite event of the year.

The officers and pilots are much more comfortable with us, and the Navy guys especially go out of their way to get to know our guys and thank us. (Which always seems strange to us, since we are the Air Force Aux.) Not saying the AF officers are less than friendly, they are. Just the Navy is more so for some reason.

Meanwhile, we'll do it again this year. I've already told my guys to memorize the names of the officers, and only those who wear the uniform properly and act professionally will be on the detail.

Maybe I should find out what NCO's like to eat and have it laid out in the hangar for them, with a big sign "Courtesy of the Civil Air Patrol/USAF Aux"

On a side not, can we get rid of Civil Air Patrol as our name? I know its a tall order but I'm so sick of people screwing it up and calling us the Civillian Air Pilots, Etc.

Can we just go to USAF AUX?

[flyguy06]

Its not they are trying to make you like a pee on. Its just enlisted folks dont like being around real officers, and so they really get uncomfortable around CAP officers cause they really dont what to do or how to act. They are not sure if they are supposed to call you sir or what? And even if you explain it to them, they still wont understand fully. It has been engrained in them to salute certain rank and address the people that wear them as sir/ma'am. Its a natural reaction. And the fct that we as CAP officers wear that rank it is natural for them to kind of shy away. the more senior NCO's probably are more at ease with it because they have been around a lot longer.

To your point about changing the name of CAP to USAF AUx. I had used to want that too many years ago, but now I erealize thatif we did that we would definantly have to become more professional andunfortunantly some people in high ranking positions in CAP would not meet the standard to be a part of it.Just my opinion.

[cap235629]

When i was in the service I called everyone sir except NCO's, enlisted folks and children.  I was around MANY DOD civilians.  It's called manners.

[Short Field]

the Navy guys especially go out of their way to get to know our guys and thank us. (Which always seems strange to us, since we are the Air Force Aux.) Not saying the AF officers are less than friendly, they are. Just the Navy is more so for some reason. 

           Just gives them one more reason why the Navy is better than the Air Force ......   

On a side not, can we get rid of Civil Air Patrol as our name? I know its a tall order but I'm so sick of people screwing it up and calling us the Civillian Air Pilots, Etc.  Can we just go to USAF AUX?

You just need to be more proactive on educating them - after all we are the Civil Air Patrol - the civilian auxiliary to the USAF.

[JayT]

On a side not, can we get rid of Civil Air Patrol as our name? I know its a tall order but I'm so sick of people screwing it up and calling us the Civillian Air Pilots, Etc.

Can we just go to USAF AUX?

What exactly would that change?

Many of our SM's and Cadet's can't even get basic C&C down, or uniform wear. Every year I see pictures of Cadets and SM's from our group wearing 'the semi formal' uniform, with a new style service jacket and a bowtie. If we can't even follow some basic regulation, then why should we be 'USAF Aux?'

[jpizzo127]

Look, I'm not perfect. No one is. But it all comes down to supervision.

As a squadron commander, if you supervise your guys, treat them with respect, and correct them on their behavior and uniform, you'll get a good, solid squadron.

Those that do not like that type of organization will quit. And you end up with the cream of the crop. (I know, its not this simple, but it's also not that complicated)

I think CAP has an identity crisis as it wants to be all things to all volunteers.

JThemann, it comes down to the individual squadron commander to be certain his members are adhering to 39-1 and all the other regs.

Its up to the Group Commanders to oversee the squadron commanders, and so on.

It all comes down to proper supervision.

[Sgt. Savage]

Before anyone passes out, I didn't die and I know I've been MIA for about 18 months. The fact is, I was not available to my squadron because the leadership had become power drunk and began running the program like some SS hitler youth organization. I left because these people were giving CAP a bad name and I wouldn't be associated with what they were doing.

They're gone, I'm back, trying to revive the program and bring it back to a level of respect and dignity. Up until this point, I had never seen a CAP officer demand a salute, troll the local base looking for attention or do anything else to discredit the organization. All I can say is that these people are EXACTLY the ones that AD troops complain about. I wouldn't have believed it had I not been there.

[es_g0d]

I think CAP has an identity crisis as it wants to be all things to all volunteers.

Awesome.  This is the truest short statement I've seen on this board in a long time, if not ever.  The identity crisis isn't just in CAP, its in our parent organization (the US Air Force, if you missed it) also.

I think we would do much better by focusing and consolidating who we are and what we do.  We can have several missions, and some might argue that we MUST per our Congressional charter, but that's not to say we can't organize to a more common goal.  Well said, jpizzo.