ABU Wear Test

[abdsp51]

Why black boots....

If you can't wear the uniform properly just like the ones that worn it before us, don't bother wearing it.

and why silver on dark blue nametapes

The white on blue nametapes holds our heritage for many years, it is also a big factor of distinguishing us as CAP.

Do you have $100 plus bucks for a pair of boots?  It was in the email why the black boots are being retained and why the possible change to dark navy tapes.   

[NIN]

Then you are not in compliance with 39-1.

Perhaps you could give this nice member, who came here looking for an answer to his question, a tiny bit more amplification to your response.

[lordmonar]

Why black boots....

Because everyone already has them.  Acceptable Black Boots can be found for under $50 vice the cheapest Sage Boot at $100.

If you can't wear the uniform properly just like the ones that worn it before us, don't bother wearing it.

??

and why silver on dark blue nametapes

For many many years people have complained to the NUC that the Ultramarine Blue looks kind of cartoony.   The Silver on Navy was the most preferred choice.

The white on blue nametapes holds our heritage for many years, it is also a big factor of distinguishing us as CAP.

Heritage....who cares about heritage.   Also "distinguished us as CAP"....from who?

[A.Member]

Proposal is great as is, no changes needed.  NUC has done a excellent job!  Well done.

[Holding Pattern]

Proposal is great as is, no changes needed.  NUC has done a excellent job!  Well done.

I'm rather happy with everything. Except for the acronym of NUC. Intel supplanted it and it leaves us poor techies confused. But that isn't the NUC's fault.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/overview.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Unit_of_Computing

[etodd]

Then you are not in compliance with 39-1.

Perhaps you could give this nice member, who came here looking for an answer to his question, a tiny bit more amplification to your response.

5.2. Corporate-style Working Uniforms
5.2.1. Men's and Women's Corporate Field Uniform (Dark Blue, BDU Style). (Figure 5.2)
5.2.1.1. Field uniforms are specifically designed to be worn in a field or working environment that involves physical exertion. Field uniform wear is generally restricted to CAP meeting and activities with a field or training focus,....

I consider being a pilot to be "field or training" ....  Page 73 of 39-1 shows the uniform.  Its what most of our Squadron wears.

()

[JeffDG]

Then you are not in compliance with 39-1.

Perhaps you could give this nice member, who came here looking for an answer to his question, a tiny bit more amplification to your response.

5.2. Corporate-style Working Uniforms
5.2.1. Men's and Women's Corporate Field Uniform (Dark Blue, BDU Style). (Figure 5.2)
5.2.1.1. Field uniforms are specifically designed to be worn in a field or working environment that involves physical exertion. Field uniform wear is generally restricted to CAP meeting and activities with a field or training focus,....

I consider being a pilot to be "field or training" ....  Page 73 of 39-1 shows the uniform.  Its what most of our Squadron wears.

()

Check out 1.2.1

[etodd]

Then you are not in compliance with 39-1.

Perhaps you could give this nice member, who came here looking for an answer to his question, a tiny bit more amplification to your response.

5.2. Corporate-style Working Uniforms
5.2.1. Men's and Women's Corporate Field Uniform (Dark Blue, BDU Style). (Figure 5.2)
5.2.1.1. Field uniforms are specifically designed to be worn in a field or working environment that involves physical exertion. Field uniform wear is generally restricted to CAP meeting and activities with a field or training focus,....

I consider being a pilot to be "field or training" ....  Page 73 of 39-1 shows the uniform.  Its what most of our Squadron wears.

()

Check out 1.2.1

Thanks. That got me to:

1.2.2. Wearing the USAF-style uniform is a privilege extended to CAP members ....

"Privilege" as opposed to requirement. 1.2.1 spells out the minimums.

So bottom line is anything over the minimum for flight duties is optional. With the caveat that if one DOES wear the USAF style ... there are requirements.

Thanks again. That answered my question. I'm happy. Moving along now. 

[JeffDG]

Then you are not in compliance with 39-1.

Perhaps you could give this nice member, who came here looking for an answer to his question, a tiny bit more amplification to your response.

5.2. Corporate-style Working Uniforms
5.2.1. Men's and Women's Corporate Field Uniform (Dark Blue, BDU Style). (Figure 5.2)
5.2.1.1. Field uniforms are specifically designed to be worn in a field or working environment that involves physical exertion. Field uniform wear is generally restricted to CAP meeting and activities with a field or training focus,....

I consider being a pilot to be "field or training" ....  Page 73 of 39-1 shows the uniform.  Its what most of our Squadron wears.

()

Check out 1.2.1

Thanks. That got me to:

1.2.2. Wearing the USAF-style uniform is a privilege extended to CAP members ....

"Privilege" as opposed to requirement. 1.2.1 spells out the minimums.

So bottom line is anything over the minimum for flight duties is optional. With the caveat that if one DOES wear the USAF style ... there are requirements.

Thanks again. That answered my question. I'm happy. Moving along now. 

1.2.1 requires that you maintain either the AF-blue uniform, or the aviator white uniform.  Having only the polo is not one of the options.

[abdsp51]

Thanks. That got me to:

1.2.2. Wearing the USAF-style uniform is a privilege extended to CAP members ....

"Privilege" as opposed to requirement. 1.2.1 spells out the minimums.

So bottom line is anything over the minimum for flight duties is optional. With the caveat that if one DOES wear the USAF style ... there are requirements.

Thanks again. That answered my question. I'm happy. Moving along now. 

1.2. Wear of the CAP Uniform.
1.2.1. Individual members will obtain and maintain for wear either of the minimum basic uniforms described here. These combinations meet the requirements of most CAP events. A commander may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary (such as requiring a specific uniform for participation in a National Cadet Special Activity) or if the uniform is supplied without expense to the cadet.
1.2.1.1. Minimum USAF-style Uniform: The minimum basic USAF-style uniform is the Blue Service Uniform (Class B) with short sleeve shirt (male) or blouse (female) as appropriate. Cadets authorized to wear the USAF-style uniform are required to maintain this uniform.
1.2.1.2. Minimum Corporate-style Uniform: The minimum basic CAP Corporate-style uniform is the Aviator Shirt Uniform with short sleeve shirt or blouse as appropriate. Cadets aged 18 and older who meet weight standards for wear of the USAF-style uniform must maintain the USAF-style Class B uniform as noted in the previous paragraph.

You must have missed these paragraphs which defines the min requirement and the polo is not it.

[etodd]

1.2.4.2. Members are normally required to wear a CAP uniform (either USAF- or Corporate-style) when working with cadets, when flying in a CAP aircraft (Corporate or member owned aircraft used in a CAP flight activity), or when conducting business under a CAP mission number (A, B, or C).

Page 73 shows the Corporate Working Style I wear. Seems to fit the above 1.2.4.2

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf

(Obviously this all varies by Wings and Squadrons. I'll stop posting now, as I'm happy with the Polo Shirt uniform and it works for me.)

[abdsp51]

1.2.4.2. Members are normally required to wear a CAP uniform (either USAF- or Corporate-style) when working with cadets, when flying in a CAP aircraft (Corporate or member owned aircraft used in a CAP flight activity), or when conducting business under a CAP mission number (A, B, or C).

Page 73 shows the Corporate Working Style I wear. Seems to fit the above 1.2.4.2

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf

(Obviously this all varies by Wings and Squadrons. I'll stop posting now, as I'm happy with the Polo Shirt uniform and it works for me.)

If you do not own one of the min required uniforms, you are in violation.  No amount of digging and providing pictures is going to help your cause.

[LSThiker]

Page 73 shows the Corporate Working Style I wear. Seems to fit the above 1.2.4.2

This may not necessarily be your "fault" as this may be confusing for a new member such as your self.  If I recall correctly, there was a discussion at the National Conference regarding a change to the Level 1 instruction on uniforms.  I believe NHQ has (or was going to) remove discussion about how to properly wear all uniforms and just leave the Polo shirt with the "implied" assumption that this is the only thing a new member needs to buy.  They were not going to discuss the USAF-style blues shirt or the white aviator shirt along with the BDUs or flight suit. 

A CMSgt and I raised this exact same concern (that all SMs were to either own the USAF-style or the Corporate uniform) about this to the person in charge of the break-out discussion, the NHQ paid-staff member.  Needless to say, it did not go well as there was no budging on this from NHQ.  It was basically a concession that since SMs usually only buy the polo uniform, there was no need to talk about corporate uniform.  Essentially, NHQ knows about it but is not going to enforce a cultural change and disrupt the status quo. 

Out of curiosity, etodd, did your Level 1 training only discuss the polo shirt?

[JeffDG]

Page 73 shows the Corporate Working Style I wear. Seems to fit the above 1.2.4.2

This may not necessarily be your "fault" as this may be confusing for a new member such as your self.  If I recall correctly, there was a discussion at the National Conference regarding a change to the Level 1 instruction on uniforms.  I believe NHQ has (or was going to) remove discussion about how to properly wear all uniforms and just leave the Polo shirt with the "implied" assumption that this is the only thing a new member needs to buy.  They were not going to discuss the USAF-style blues shirt or the white aviator shirt along with the BDUs or flight suit. 

A CMSgt and I raised this exact same concern (that all SMs were to either own the USAF-style or the Corporate uniform) about this to the person in charge of the break-out discussion, the NHQ paid-staff member.  Needless to say, it did not go well as there was no budging on this from NHQ.  It was basically a concession that since SMs usually only buy the polo uniform, there was no need to talk about corporate uniform.  Essentially, NHQ knows about it but is not going to enforce a cultural change and disrupt the status quo. 

Out of curiosity, etodd, did your Level 1 training only discuss the polo shirt?

I'm not necessarily opposed to what the NHQ person said.  But for the love of God, if you're going to push something that is in contravention to the regulation, especially now that CAP/CC can amend regulations by the stroke of a pen, amend the regulation!  Go ahead and make the polo one of the allowable "minimum" uniform combinations and all of this goes away.

[etodd]

This may not necessarily be your "fault" as this may be confusing for a new member such as your self.

It was basically a concession that since SMs usually only buy the polo uniform, there was no need to talk about corporate uniform.  Essentially, NHQ knows about it but is not going to enforce a cultural change and disrupt the status quo.

Some of the pilots in my squadron wear the BDUs on some days and the polo other days and some wear the polo all the time.  So its not "me being confused".  LOL

Anyway ... I was just asking a simple question a couple pages ago and never meant to hijack this thread. Your quote above in regards to NHQ answers my question. Goodnite all.

[PA Guy]

As usual an innocent member walks in and asks a question. Instantly every anal retentive barracks room lawyer on of the forum feels compelled to make a comment. Dog piles seem to be the favorite past time of some of the posters. It is just down right mean spirited. And what's worse they seem to enjoy it.

As for the thread itself for all that is holy lock this thread. There is nothing left to say that hasn't been. The decisions have been made, Deal with it. It is the Air Force's freaking uniform and they will decide the future of it in CAP.

[FW]

As for the thread itself for all that is holy lock this thread. There is nothing left to say that hasn't been. The decisions have been made, Deal with it. It is the Air Force's freaking uniform and they will decide the future of it in CAP.

OMDL! Methinks this has been the longest conversation about (what I think is) the most insignificant part of CAP ever! With membership levels dropping, funding stagnant, and morale in question, is this the best we can do?
I forget the number of uniform combinations I've worn over the years as a CAP member.  I really don't care what new set comes down the pike.  I got work to do...

[NIN]

I forget the number of uniform combinations I've worn over the years as a CAP member.  I really don't care what new set comes down the pike.  I got work to do...

Amen, brother. Amen.

[Garibaldi]

As for the thread itself for all that is holy lock this thread. There is nothing left to say that hasn't been. The decisions have been made, Deal with it. It is the Air Force's freaking uniform and they will decide the future of it in CAP.

OMDL! Methinks this has been the longest conversation about (what I think is) the most insignificant part of CAP ever! With membership levels dropping, funding stagnant, and morale in question, is this the best we can do?
I forget the number of uniform combinations I've worn over the years as a CAP member.  I really don't care what new set comes down the pike.  I got work to do...

Let's see....OG-107 jungle fatigues, regular OD fatigues, BDUs, several different styles of blues (shirt went through 2 changes, jacket about 3, maybe 4), and now the polo. I'm sure others have more, but I'm a basic sandwich kind of a guy.

Yeah, doesn't matter what we wear, we have a job to do. I'm kinda sick of it too. Reminds me of Cyrus from Trailer Park Boys: "**** off, I got work to do."

[NIN]

As usual an innocent member walks in and asks a question. Instantly every anal retentive barracks room lawyer on of the forum feels compelled to make a comment. Dog piles seem to be the favorite past time of some of the posters. It is just down right mean spirited. And what's worse they seem to enjoy it.

That was kind of why I asked the posted above to clarify.

There is a term for this kind of thing on the internet that is not really appropriate for polite company, but suffice to day, its pretty standard on CAP-Talk:

1) New member registers on CAPTalk
2) Posts question they don't seem to be getting an answer to at their unit, or nobody at the unit knows, etc.
3) Multiple people either go "USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION!" or "YOU'RE WRONG!!!"
4) The new member goes "Well, so much for getting an answer to my question" and goes away.
5) Go to Step 3 and iterate until the participants are exhausted or a moderator finally has enough. 

Yes, there is a point where we do get the same question over and over, but nobody comes into a forum expecting to use the search function (after all, we have the Knowledgebase, right? <ducks>).  Thats why we should probably have a frequently asked questions section. 

"Read the FAQs first, in case your question is one of the x questions that get debated to death here..."

Then its behavioral.  We have to train out the Pavlovian tendency to treat new posters like they're slobbering idiots who can't lift a finger.  CAP is a complicated beast.  I explained it to parent like this  recently: "You're familiar with board games, right?  There are some fairly clear rules, some pieces,  a board with spaces, maybe some dice, you've played them before. Like Monopoly or Chutes & Ladders. Pretty linear A-to-B sort of thing, right?  Ever play Dungeons and Dragons?  You open the box and there are some dice like you've never seen before, some pieces of paper and a thick book of rules that one guy reads and explains to everybody else.  No board, no spaces, no pieces.   Civil Air Patrol is kind of like Dungeons and Dragons: a complex, multi-faceted beast of an organization that has a thick (virtual) binder of rules, policies, procedures, customs, unspoken and unwritten methods, arcane and byzantine stuff, and none of it conforms to what you've seen out of other organizations."

So lets all be helpful experienced game masters to our newbie players, eh?