ABU Wear Test

[THRAWN]

COPIED FROM MICHIGAN WING FACEBOOK:

The Civil Air Patrol Command Council just voted to transition to the ABUs and to keep the current dark blue BDUs for the CAP Corporate uniform. The name tapes and rank will also change to dark blue with silver thread *** The ABUs/name tape change still need to be approved by the Air Force, do NOT go out and buy the ABUs***

The ABUs are not approved for wear yet, CAP only voted to move forward to try and get the Air Force to approve this uniform for us.

PICTURE OF ABU'S:
https://www.facebook.com/MIWGCAP/photos/a.10151055245118845.439978.9548473844/10153534448528845/?type=3&theater

And now all hell breaks loose....but but but I SAW IT ON FACETHING!....who ever decided to release this, on Facething, should be relieved. Cadets and the pro-ABU elements are going to stop reading after the second sentence.

[THRAWN]

The black boots look just fine, are functional and won't bankrupt the membership.

[Jester]

The issue sage boot is under $100.

[THRAWN]

The issue sage boot is under $100.

Jungle boots are under $25. Most members have black boots already. Why add an expense on top of an expense?

[abdsp51]

The issue sage boot is under $100.

You are aware that's due to the high quantities and govt rate they are procured at right?  Those boots actually retail above $100.

[ProdigalJim]

The phase-in period will probably help ease the cost burden for everyone once ABUs officially happen.

And ABUs are beginning to be available in surplus, eBay and other sources so I don't think it's going to be the apocalypse that's being predicted.

Honestly, I don't know why we all go so ballistic about how much uniforms cost. Boy Scout uniforms, for example, cost $49.99 for the shirt and another $49.99 for the pants...throw in a neckerchief and a hat and a handbook, and you're up to $120 or so. My kids when they were in high school had to pay fees for their athletic uniforms. Yes it's an expense, but CAP is hardly unusual in requiring people to pay for uniforms.

[THRAWN]

The phase-in period will probably help ease the cost burden for everyone once ABUs officially happen.

And ABUs are beginning to be available in surplus, eBay and other sources so I don't think it's going to be the apocalypse that's being predicted.

Honestly, I don't know why we all go so ballistic about how much uniforms cost. Boy Scout uniforms, for example, cost $49.99 for the shirt and another $49.99 for the pants...throw in a neckerchief and a hat and a handbook, and you're up to $120 or so. My kids when they were in high school had to pay fees for their athletic uniforms. Yes it's an expense, but CAP is hardly unusual in requiring people to pay for uniforms.

Apples and hand grenades....sure they're both round....that's about $100 for a complete uni for the Scouts. Less, if you can find surplus (by way of example, I got me and my son complete uniforms for under $75 for both). CAP wants you to have blues and BDUs and multiple sets of each....

[Stonewall]

How many CAP senior members are in the AF/ANG/AFRES who already have several sage boots that will have to buy and maintain black boots now?

Probably not enough to make an impact but just from my experience, I have been issued at least 10 pair of sage boots in the past 6 years and bought 3 or 4 pair (I don't like the issued ones).

I think the black boots just look silly. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

How many CAP senior members are in the AF/ANG/AFRES who already have several sage boots that will have to buy and maintain black boots now?

None. They have black boots for the B/BDUs.

[THRAWN]

How many CAP senior members are in the AF/ANG/AFRES who already have several sage boots that will have to buy and maintain black boots now?

Probably not enough to make an impact but just from my experience, I have been issued at least 10 pair of sage boots in the past 6 years and bought 3 or 4 pair (I don't like the issued ones).

I think the black boots just look silly.

Sillier than the bright blue on camoflague?

[Jester]

The issue sage boot is under $100.

Jungle boots are under $25. Most members have black boots already. Why add an expense on top of an expense?

I wouldn't use knock-off cheap boots as a justification for anything.

The issue sage boot is under $100.

You are aware that's due to the high quantities and govt rate they are procured at right?  Those boots actually retail above $100.

Walk into MCS, find the boots on the wall, buy them. I'm not talking about the ones in supply.

Black boots look like garbage with ABUs. I don't care about shines. They went to suede to shift focus on things that matter.

[goblin]

I don't think that's why we went to suede.

[Chappie]

Here is what was posted on the NCWG Facebook Group: 
The CAP Command Council has voted to endorse 3 uniform related proposals that were brought to the council by Maj Gen Vazquez, CAP's National Commander.

NOTE - the proposals still require AF APRROVAL which is pending.

Secondly, even once approved, there will be a structured transition process.

The proposals are:

1. Make the AF ABU uniform with tan T-Shirt, tan belt and Black Belt as the CAP AF style utility uniform.

2. Transition the name tapes and associated insignia for the utility uniforms (AF and Corporate) from ultramarine blue w/white thread to dark/navy blue with silver thread.

3. Retain Blue BDU style uniform as the CAP corporate utility uniform and phase out the Woodland style BDU utility uniform on a to be announced transition schedule.

NOTE - the proposals still require AF APRROVAL which is pending. Please do not purchase or where any uniform items that are not CURRENTLY authorized by CAPM 39-1.

There is still no guarantee that the AF will approve these proposals. More to follow. The picture shows a representation of the configuration that is being proposed for the ABU style uniform.


The picture of Col LeClair wearing the test uniform included black boots.

[abdsp51]

Adopt ABU. Keep the black shirt, belt and boots to provide distinctness. 

The sand tshirts are hideous...

[NIN]

The phase-in period will probably help ease the cost burden for everyone once ABUs officially happen.

And ABUs are beginning to be available in surplus, eBay and other sources so I don't think it's going to be the apocalypse that's being predicted.

Honestly, I don't know why we all go so ballistic about how much uniforms cost. Boy Scout uniforms, for example, cost $49.99 for the shirt and another $49.99 for the pants...throw in a neckerchief and a hat and a handbook, and you're up to $120 or so. My kids when they were in high school had to pay fees for their athletic uniforms. Yes it's an expense, but CAP is hardly unusual in requiring people to pay for uniforms.

^^ This.

When we moved from fatigues to BDUs, the EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS were had: "uniformity," "cost," "camouflage," and "why?" 
- We moved to BDUs and if my rememberey serves, better than 90% of our membership switched in the first year. So much for uniformity. (a lack of uniformity only bothers a small subset of people..)
- Yes, BDUs were somewhat more expensive than fatigues had been, but fatigues were dwindling rapidly in availability. Even jungle fatigues. Probably even worse than BDUs are today since there was not any sort of commercial market for that uniform like there is today. BDUs were far more readily available than fatigues when we switched. (Even now, I've gotten an ABU shirt and two pairs of ABU pants and spent less than $30, as ABUs are readily available now, and we've had units *turn down* tri-walls full of ABUs from AF sources that were offered for free, citing "we can't wear them". ABUs are plentiful if you look for them.)
- We've worn a camouflage uniform since circa 1991 and nobody's misplaced a member in the woods due to his uniform yet (and you won't do it with ABUs, either)
- It is the Air Force uniform.

The switch to BDUs was predicted to be the end of everything, from discipline to the organization itself.

[NIN]

Walk into MCS, find the boots on the wall, buy them. I'm not talking about the ones in supply.

Black boots look like garbage with ABUs. I don't care about shines. They went to suede to shift focus on things that matter.

I'd love to walk into an MCS.  The nearest one is 90 minutes away and I still haven't cracked the code of who I have to talk to so I can get on the authorization list at the gate, nevermind my vanload of cadets.  The minute I figure that one out, I'll be there.

But I don't disagree with you about the focus shift.  I only shine my jump boots infrequently, but all I ever did with the rough-outs worn with ACUs was brush them off once in awhile with a suede brush. Life was considerably nicer when a) I didn't have to worry about scuffing my boots; and b) I didn't have to shine them anyway if I did.



ETA: https://www.shopmyexchange.com/browse/military/air-force-uniforms/af-footwear/_/N-108188  Which ones are the "issue boot" you speak of, cuz even thru MCSS, the Bellevilles I was coveting are $136.

[Jester]

The DLATS boot is that same model but cheaper. I don't know why they're not on the site.

[LSThiker]

I know this was talked about with the Col Knowles picture, but was there any "final" word on wing patch and squadron patches?  The examples shown show only badges with no NCSA, Wing/Region, Squadron, Left Pocket patches. 

I am curious if CAP will eliminate those as well or if they will stay on board with the final proposal to the USAF.

Likewise, will that also be the same standard for the Corporate BDUs?

How is the small talk/rumor mill going for transitioning the Corporate BDUs to having the dark blue tapes instead of the ultramarine?

[NIN]

How is the small talk/rumor mill going for transitioning the Corporate BDUs to having the dark blue tapes instead of the ultramarine?

it is my understanding that all the utility uniforms (ABUs and BBDUs) would have the same nametag color.

[LSThiker]

How is the small talk/rumor mill going for transitioning the Corporate BDUs to having the dark blue tapes instead of the ultramarine?

it is my understanding that all the utility uniforms (ABUs and BBDUs) would have the same nametag color.

If for whatever reason the ABUs get rejected by the USAF or the dark blue gets rejected by the USAF, is CAP still planning on making the change for the corporate uniform?  Or will CAP approve (again according to the rumor mill) the switch to dark blue tapes before seeking the USAF approval?


It has been a long time since I attended the winter session.  In the past, the CAP-USAF commander would usually attend.  Before the vote session, he would make a comment towards the USAF's point of view.  Did he make a comment on the possible switch?