"The CAP Polo shirt is NOT authorized for this activity."

Started by Swampfox, October 01, 2010, 04:16:20 PM

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Phil Hirons, Jr.

Yes, CAP members should have the basic uniform. I'd not be surprised to learn Swampfox bought the polo because that's what all / most / some of the senior members in his home squadron wear. Personally, I'd rather see someone sitting in my class in the polo rather than "business attire". Considering the number of seniors who never complete Level II, I'd lean toward not putting barriers to attendance.

A.Member

Quote from: SarDragon on October 01, 2010, 10:18:19 PM
"Only" is the key word here. As noted above, the aviator shirt combo is the minimum required uniform for fatties/fuzzies. If you don't have that combo available, you are technically in violation.  ;)
No.  The white/gray combo is the minimum required uniform for those that don't conform to weight and grooming stndards.  Again, see 39-1, page 8 "CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform" as referenced previously. 

Before any member buys a golf shirt, they need to buy the basic required uniform.  It's that simple.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Custer

Quote from: CommGeek on October 01, 2010, 07:00:11 PM
What if I'm a poor CAP member and only have a polo?

http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/prostores/servlet/-strse-1212/EMT-Short-Sleeve-White/Detail

This shirt, with rank slides and a nameplate from vanguard, costs LESS than the polo shirt.  You can look like the lead guitarist from ZZTOP and wear it.  The rest of the uniform is the same as the polo, so you already have it.

It is my personal uniform of choice even though I am within weight standards and do not have a beard.  I work in a medical lab and look like the guy who introduces "Robot Chicken".  If you've ever seen that show, thats not exactly a mil spec haircut.

SarDragon

Quote from: A.Member on October 01, 2010, 10:40:44 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on October 01, 2010, 10:18:19 PM
"Only" is the key word here. As noted above, the aviator shirt combo is the minimum required uniform for fatties/fuzzies. If you don't have that combo available, you are technically in violation.  ;)
No.  The white/gray combo is the minimum required uniform for those that don't conform to weight and grooming stndards.  Again, see 39-1, page 8 "CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform" as referenced previously. 

Before any member buys a golf shirt, they need to buy the basic required uniform.  It's that simple.

Help me out here.

How is what you said different from what I said? Doesn't "fatties/fuzzies" equate with "those that don't conform to weight and grooming stndards [sic]", in spite of its perhaps pejorative nature?

I seriously don't understand what you're getting at.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

RVT

Quote from: Swampfox on October 01, 2010, 04:16:20 PM
I got an e-mail about the upcoming Squadron Leadership School and Corporate Learning Course and am told I cannot attend (I have a beard and require the CAP polo shirt).

You are REQUIRED to have a white aviator shirt uniform.  Don't panic, the shirt, rank slides and nameplate add up to less than $30.  You can add badges & ribbons later if you like, or not, its up to you.

You may OPTIONALLY PURCHASE AND USE:
Blue Flight Suit
Blue Jump Suit
Blue BDU
Blazer uniform
and
any of the three polo shirt uniforms.

However NONE of those are required.

A.Member

Quote from: SarDragon on October 01, 2010, 10:53:07 PM
Help me out here.

How is what you said different from what I said? Doesn't "fatties/fuzzies" equate with "those that don't conform to weight and grooming stndards [sic]", in spite of its perhaps pejorative nature?

I seriously don't understand what you're getting at.
Oops.  Mea culpa.  I'm the one that mis-read your previous post.  We're on the same page.

(p.s. that's why I try to stay out of uniform discussions! ;) )
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

RVT

Especially with senior squadrons in California - a lot of new members think the default uniform set is a polo shirt and a flight suit.

You go to a typical squadron meeting and that's all you see - so regardless of what it says in the documentation they are given - its what everybody else is wearing so its what they also get.  And has been said - most commanders are happy to have them in any uniform at all.

spacecommand

At my unit, virtually all the seniors show up in the golf shirt to regular meetings (I haven't been in long enough to see what they wear during the Winter), so I went along and purchased a golf shirt (and got a AF blue shirt as well), however when  promotion night/awards night comes around, they all show up in either corporate blazer or AF uniforms, so I know they own both sets.   I think there are folks who think the golf shirt is the "working/everyday uniform" (and is the only basic uniform you need) and the white shirt/blazer/AF uniform is only for more formal occasions.  I don't mind the golf shirt, but I'm not a big fan of it either.

Custer

Quote from: spacecommand on October 01, 2010, 11:14:20 PMAt my unit, virtually all the seniors show up in the golf shirt to regular meetings (I haven't been in long enough to see what they wear during the winter)

Probably the same golf shirt   There are three actual uniform jackets you can wear over it but the regs let you wear civilian jackets too.

Gung Ho

Guess the best thing to do is not go to the training if you don't have the required uniform and they don't issue you one. If they want you to go to this training they will change the rules or give you the right one. Seems to me a polo would be better then casual wear

Eclipse

Quote from: Gung Ho on October 02, 2010, 12:23:50 AM
Guess the best thing to do is not go to the training if you don't have the required uniform and they don't issue you one. If they want you to go to this training they will change the rules or give you the right one. Seems to me a polo would be better then casual wear

Or...

...instead of responding like a 6th grader when you don't get your way, actually read the regulations and understand the commitment you are making when you join a professionalized volunteer organization.

Further, as I have already mentioned, most PD activities allow for the wear of civilian business attire in lieu of the whites.  If a dress shirt to go with the gray slacks you already have is out of your reach financially, you probably have more important places to spend your time and money than CAP.

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Quote from: Gung Ho on October 02, 2010, 12:23:50 AM
Guess the best thing to do is not go to the training if you don't have the required uniform and they don't issue you one. If they want you to go to this training they will change the rules or give you the right one. Seems to me a polo would be better then casual wear

Its the same as not wearing BDUs to a dining out. There is a specified uniform, and the polo combo ain't it.

I really wish commanders would wrap their skulls around the idea that there is a minimum basic uniform (both corporate and AF-style) and stop telling people that they can just buy the polo shirt and they're "all set." No, you're not.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
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A.Member

Quote from: Eclipse on October 02, 2010, 12:42:15 AM
...instead of responding like a 6th grader when you don't get your way, actually read the regulations and understand the commitment you are making when you join a professionalized volunteer organization...

...If a dress shirt to go with the gray slacks you already have is out of your reach financially, you probably have more important places to spend your time and money than CAP.
:clap:  This...and only this. 

The regs say members must have a basic uniform and very clearly define that uniform.  Not sure why this is even being debated.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Custer

Quote from: Eclipse on October 02, 2010, 12:42:15 AMFurther, as I have already mentioned, most PD activities allow for the wear of civilian business attire in lieu of the whites.  If a dress shirt to go with the gray slacks you already have is out of your reach financially, you probably have more important places to spend your time and money than CAP.

White shirt from aforementioned website =      $9.99
Rank epaulets (not even this if you are SM)= $7.70
CAP grey nameplate                                         $3.30
TOTAL=                                           $21

CHEAPEST Vanguard Polo =              $22
======================================
Add Wings or any other badge             + $3.30
Same wings on the vanguard polo       +$22.00

Aviator shirt with wings and 2 rows of ribbons = $35
Personalised vanguard polo  most members wear = $44


The trick is don't get the aviator shirt from Vanguard.  Its a vanilla standard design available from a hundred other sources - and you can get it online for $10 - and in sizes the polo doesn't come in.

The aviator shirt uniform is cheaper either way.

Persona non grata

Rock, Flag & Eagle.........

SarDragon

Quote from: eaker.cadet on October 02, 2010, 04:03:55 AM
Polo shirts suck.......  I prefer the golf shirt

Please explain to us the difference between a golf shirt and a polo shirt.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

caphornbuckle

If I remember correctly (and someone correct me if they know different) the golf shirt combination was first designed as an alternative to flight suits for pilots.  This would give CAP pilots a little more comfort and more of a "corporate" look when flying in CAP aircraft as for the "military" look of flight suits (As well as cheaper from what I can tell).  Although now the golf shirt is being used by all members regardless of flight status.

For the sake of argument using what I have said, the golf shirt is an alternative to the flight suit and would not be considered a uniform for corporate training where flight suits are also not authorized.  Just my two cents.
Lt Col Samuel L. Hornbuckle, CAP

SarDragon

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

RiverAux

Quote from: A.Member on October 02, 2010, 01:59:47 AM
The regs say members must have a basic uniform and very clearly define that uniform.  Not sure why this is even being debated.
Probably because this particular regulation is somewhat obscure and we don't make a point of highlighting the fact that these are required where it might do some good for new members.

Then again there is the simple fact that the golf shirt culture is winning out in CAP.  Much as I hate to say it, I would not be surprised if CAP dumped the military style uniforms within 10-15 years just because so few people are wearing them anymore.  The trend is only getting worse.

A.Member

Quote from: RiverAux on October 02, 2010, 02:27:19 PM
Quote from: A.Member on October 02, 2010, 01:59:47 AM
The regs say members must have a basic uniform and very clearly define that uniform.  Not sure why this is even being debated.
Probably because this particular regulation is somewhat obscure...
No, it's not - at all.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."