SM meeting activities

[Eclipse]

I disagree. We have Chaplains for a reason. If you don't agree with the message then step out of the room, or plan an alternate activity if you believe there are more than just you that are not interested.

That's not how it works.

Please explain to me how it works then. I would love to know.

We already did, read the thread.

[MacGruff]

I have yet hear a CAP chaplain meet the requirements. As an atheist I just don't care, but seems interfaith is NOT something they can handle...

I worked with one of the most awesome Chaplins in CAP - someone who totally "got it", sadly he moved to another wing.
You may have worked with him as well.

Was his first name Charlie?

[GroundHawg]

I disagree. We have Chaplains for a reason. If you don't agree with the message then step out of the room, or plan an alternate activity if you believe there are more than just you that are not interested.

That's not how it works.

Please explain to me how it works then. I would love to know.

We already did, read the thread.

I read it, I cant find where anything I said was wrong. It seems to me that it works exactly as I suggested?

[Eclipse]

I read it, I cant find where anything I said was wrong. It seems to me that it works exactly as I suggested?

What "works"?  Is he giving a fully non-denominational invocation? 

Because if he isn't, he's violating regs and policy in that regard.

Also, this idea that it is somehow "OK" to alienate members. for any reason, is so misguided it is hard to know where to start.
What if they "disagree with the message" to the point that they don't come back?

Or does that "work" too?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Don't want their kind around anyway.

[Critical AOA]

CAP is not a religious organization, it is a secular one.  As such, all religious practices such as prayer should not be allowed.  Do it at home or in your church. Don't waste the time of others. 

Non-denominational prayers are a practical impossibility.  In fact to call it non-denominational is somewhat of a fallacy or at least a misnomer. A denomination as it refers to religion is a subcategory of a given religion.  For example, in christianity, your denomination could be catholic, methodist, lutheran, etc.  In islam it could be shiite or sunni.  Christianity and islam themselves are entirely separate religions, not denominations. 

As such, by even referring to a prayer or other activity as non-denominational, you are assuming that it is of a particular religion such as christianity and thereby are excluding other religions.  I as do most rational people choose to dismiss all religions as false just as the members of any given religion dismiss all others. 

As a prayer is a call to a higher power or a god or other mythical creature; the person saying the prayer is in fact calling out to their particular god (or whatever).  To actually or pretend to be calling out to all gods or any other gods as well as your own would be hypocritical and throw your own faith into question.  That is the problem with so called non-denominational / multi religion prayers.  They simply cannot be as not all religions believe in the same god.

I will not attend an organization that has prayers as part of its program. I have no issues with a moment of silence so each person can reflect in a manner that fits their particular belief.  And if someone wants to say a silent prayer during the moment of silence rather than pondering something real, that is their option.  I don't care.  Just don't expect me to listen respectfully to someone's nonsense.

[SunDog]

Most of us use the term non- denomiational in a generic way, to mean " no specific religion". Whether that is Webster's definition or not isn't too relevant in lay conversation.

You have a point, as in CAP  is secular, and someone can choose to pray elsewhen and where. I don't have a denomination or sect; but I don't have your level of contempt for those that do. Maybe a little tolerance for our brother and sister officers isn't a bad thing. It doesn't cost me much (a minute or two) to stand quietly and listen. Most of my sqdn has religion - and they don't inconvenience me, or push it; we do CAP stuff. Every now and then, at a special event, they start with a prayer. I suffer no ill effects from it.

Years ago I went out to fly, an 0200 launch from a hot steamy place, going into moderate harms way. On pre-flight I was startled by a chaplain blessing my aircraft. I was touched by his dedication and concern, out in the mid-watch. I came back from the mission, so he did no apparent harm. And I got some good vibes, as in "someone DOES  care". I think the encounter  tightened my focus a bit, too.

While you and I may THINK religion is just mysticism, it is POSSIBLE we are wrong. We lack the insight, perception and raw data to be certain. It ain't scientific to state the position as a fact.  You don't have to listen closely; think about your taxes, or next haircut.

[Critical AOA]

You'd be much better off having me lay my hands on your airplane and "blessing" it than a chaplain. 

[Eclipse]

While you and I may THINK religion is just mysticism, it is POSSIBLE we are wrong. We lack the insight, perception and raw data to be certain. It ain't scientific to state the position as a fact.  You don't have to listen closely; think about your taxes, or next haircut.

That's the point - because it faith, it should be left at home.

If members are inclined to invocations or prayers, instead of alienating some by making them an official part of the agenda, those who wish to pray should
separate themselves in a discrete way, have their prayer and come back - preferably before or after the meeting or activity, not during.

[Майор Хаткевич]

While you and I may THINK religion is just mysticism, it is POSSIBLE we are wrong. We lack the insight, perception and raw data to be certain. It ain't scientific to state the position as a fact.  You don't have to listen closely; think about your taxes, or next haircut.

That's the point - because it faith, it should be left at home.

If members are inclined to invocations or prayers, instead of alienating some by making them an official part of the agenda, those who wish to pray should
separate themselves in a discrete way, have their prayer and come back - preferably before or after the meeting or activity, not during.

+1.

I'll at times omit "Under God" when I say the Pledge of Allegiance. Partly because I know the history behind it, partly because if I say that part, then it's not really a binding pledge to me. So be it. But if I'm asked to lead the unit in reciting the pledge, then I say all the words.

[Critical AOA]

I'll at times omit "Under God" when I say the Pledge of Allegiance. Partly because I know the history behind it, partly because if I say that part, then it's not really a binding pledge to me. So be it. But if I'm asked to lead the unit in reciting the pledge, then I say all the words.

I also omit that addition to the pledge when I say it.  I always decline in leading the pledge as it would sound awkward if I omitted that part and others said it.  I know, I did it once.   

I got into an argument with a religious nut over the pledge one time.  I made the statement that "under god" should be removed from the pledge as not everyone believes in god.  His reply was that "you atheists are always trying to change American traditions.  When I informed him that phrase was not in the original pledge but rather was added late in the history of the pledge and thus it was the christians not the atheists who were changing American traditions, he called me a liar.  When I showed him a history of the pledge, his response was "well it is in there now and its god's will that it is".  When I asked him how he knew it was god's will.  He said "because that's what I believe".   

Ahhh... faith.

[JeffDG]

I don't recite the Pledge of Allegiance at all...had precisely one person ever ask me about it, and my explanation settled the issue pretty easily.

[FlyTiger77]

I don't recite the Pledge of Allegiance at all...had precisely one person ever ask me about it, and my explanation settled the issue pretty easily.

That's un-'Merican...oh, wait. It's YOU!!

[JeffDG]

I don't recite the Pledge of Allegiance at all...had precisely one person ever ask me about it, and my explanation settled the issue pretty easily.

That's un-'Merican...oh, wait. It's YOU!!

It's like whenever people sing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" I get all frustrated that they don't know the words to "God Save the Queen"

[SunDog]

LOL! O.K., so much for tolerance and courtesy : )

The outrage seems a bit out of proportion, guys. But so be it. Other things to occupy my time. Adios. . .

[Майор Хаткевич]

LOL! O.K., so much for tolerance and courtesy : )

The outrage seems a bit out of proportion, guys. But so be it. Other things to occupy my time. Adios. . .

I tolerate. Had I cared, I don't think there's much courtesy extended to those who are not unidiety-believing. That isn't just Atheists, but Buddists, Wiccans, Hindus, Gaia believers, UFO Ubductees, etc.

[Critical AOA]

I don't recite the Pledge of Allegiance at all...had precisely one person ever ask me about it, and my explanation settled the issue pretty easily.

That's un-'Merican...oh, wait. It's YOU!!

It's like whenever people sing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" I get all frustrated that they don't know the words to "God Save the Queen"

Ha!  Deities and royalty.  Two things that I don't believe in though one actually does exist... unfortunately.