So the Army has been kinda busy......

[SDF_Specialist]

Kinda scared the crap out of my wife yesterday morning, and afternoon. We hear this loud noise that seemed to be approaching somewhat fast, but would taper off once in a while. When my curiousity finally got the best of me, I took a walk outside to see two UH-60A's flying around my street. At one point, one stopped just shy of being directly over my house, and hovered for a minute or so. Once the other caught up, they both took off like a bat out of hell. My wife was only freaking out because the only base near us that hangers military aircraft (to our knowledge) is the 179th in Mansfield. Then again, she may have been freaking out because they were so low (I could actually read "United States Army" on the side). Pretty cool if you ask me.

Message icon - MIKE

[PHall]

As long as nobody is fast roping into your front yard, what's the problem?

[Ricochet13]

That would be the problem perhaps!  No one roped! 

I get A-10's low over my house all the time.  It is inspiring!

[SDF_Specialist]

It was definately cool, don't get me wrong. But we live in a small community. It's rare to even see a LifeFlight bird, let alone an Army bird flying. No one roped in my yard, but I was ready to get out of the way in case they started to fire that huge gun sticking out of the front

[Pylon]

I enjoy the sound of F-16's over my house regularly - especially now that they're ramping up night flying.   

Too bad in a few years, that sound will be gone for the silence of Reapers zipping around.   

[RogueLeader]

From my house in Oklahoma, I was alwas hearing aircraft, artillary, and machine gun fire.


BTW, I was a quarter mile from Ft. Sill's training side of post.
Almost like being in Bagdad, but with no sand, and noone trying to kill you.

[Gunner C]

It was definately cool, don't get me wrong. But we live in a small community. It's rare to even see a LifeFlight bird, let alone an Army bird flying. No one roped in my yard, but I was ready to get out of the way in case they started to fire that huge gun sticking out of the front

What you saw was probably an MH-60 and that "huge gun sticking out of the front" was a refuling probe.

GC

[DC]

I see black hawks flying around all the time. Once, about two years ago I actually saw two MH-60s refueling off a C-130, could even see the fuel lines stringing back off the herk. Very cool.

[notaNCO forever]

I once saw two C-130's flying really low over my house.

[MIKE]

It was definately cool, don't get me wrong. But we live in a small community. It's rare to even see a LifeFlight bird, let alone an Army bird flying. No one roped in my yard, but I was ready to get out of the way in case they started to fire that huge gun sticking out of the front

What you saw was probably an MH-60 and that "huge gun sticking out of the front" was a refuling probe.

GC

^^ Yeah... turn in your CAP membership card.

[SDF_Specialist]

It was definately cool, don't get me wrong. But we live in a small community. It's rare to even see a LifeFlight bird, let alone an Army bird flying. No one roped in my yard, but I was ready to get out of the way in case they started to fire that huge gun sticking out of the front

What you saw was probably an MH-60 and that "huge gun sticking out of the front" was a refuling probe.

GC

^^ Yeah... turn in your CAP membership card.

Not much of a helicopter person, but I did google the MH-60. Yep, that was it. My mistake.

You can have the membership card, but I'm keeping the problems that go with it. I still have to get back at those people.

[♠SARKID♠]

I was just out delivering furniture in Madison, WI last Friday and I seriously thought of moving there.  I was dropping off a bedroom set when a couple F-16s screamed over my head.  I asked the customer if that was annoying to have on a daily basis, she said she loved it.  I probably would too!  Made it even better when a C-130 took off in front of me as I was pulling out of the subdivision.

[SDF_Specialist]

Now that is a place I would love to live. Having places like that fly over you all the time would be great. Truth to be told, I'm kinda sick of having Continental, AA, UA and so on being the only cool thing that flies around here. Of course, there is still that matter of my wife freaking out. Quite hilarious if you ask me.

[sandman]

I see black hawks flying around all the time. Once, about two years ago I actually saw two MH-60s refueling off a C-130, could even see the fuel lines stringing back off the herk. Very cool.

Topic tangent: There's a cool video on military.com showing a helo cutting off its own refueling probe with the main rotors while trying to engage the fuel line! Anybody see it?

LT

[DC]

I see black hawks flying around all the time. Once, about two years ago I actually saw two MH-60s refueling off a C-130, could even see the fuel lines stringing back off the herk. Very cool.

Topic tangent: There's a cool video on military.com showing a helo cutting off its own refueling probe with the main rotors while trying to engage the fuel line! Anybody see it?

LT

Seen it. I'm sure the first thing that crew did after landing was change their shorts...

[Hawk200]

Topic tangent: There's a cool video on military.com showing a helo cutting off its own refueling probe with the main rotors while trying to engage the fuel line! Anybody see it?

An MH-53. Tried to bring the nose up to too fast and forgot about blade droop. The MH-60 has the same issue. 'Hawk blades can droop to four feet off the ground (when on the ground, of course). It's the primary reason that you never walk toward a Blackhawk from the front when blades are turning.

Yeah, I know it's a "No duh!" kind of thing, but people still get killed that way.

Seen it. I'm sure the first thing that crew did after landing was change their shorts...

I would doubt it. Most likely there was plenty of swearing from the time it happened to well after touchdown. Betting the crewcheif got a little torqued too. It takes a little time to change those things.

[Gunner C]

Topic tangent: There's a cool video on military.com showing a helo cutting off its own refueling probe with the main rotors while trying to engage the fuel line! Anybody see it?

An MH-53. Tried to bring the nose up to too fast and forgot about blade droop. The MH-60 has the same issue. 'Hawk blades can droop to four feet off the ground (when on the ground, of course). It's the primary reason that you never walk toward a Blackhawk from the front when blades are turning.

Yeah, I know it's a "No duh!" kind of thing, but people still get killed that way.

Seen it. I'm sure the first thing that crew did after landing was change their shorts...

I would doubt it. Most likely there was plenty of swearing from the time it happened to well after touchdown. Betting the crewcheif got a little torqued too. It takes a little time to change those things.

Blade droop is a fact: the flight surgeon from 3rd SF Group had the top of his head taken off by an MH-60.  The crew chief tried to stop him and the pilots were helpless - they could only watch.

[NIN]

Blade droop is a fact: the flight surgeon from 3rd SF Group had the top of his head taken off by an MH-60.  The crew chief tried to stop him and the pilots were helpless - they could only watch.

Droop notwithstanding (yeah, lets not talk aft centrifugal droop stops on the CH-47..  me and the A-511 fire department got real intimate one night after a goggle flight where my FE had decided to swap out the droop stop springs and not bother to write it up the day before), the Chinook's forward blades can come down to something like 3' 9" with the controls out of neutral.

We landed in a rice paddy one day on a ROK haul. Our forward blade arc was just over the paddy dike off our nose.  We had slow-turning blades after shutdown and one of the ROKs wandered over to watch.  I was working the ramp and my crew chief was distracted by someone on the #2 side when the guy stepped up on the paddy dike to get a better view. The pilots caught the guy's actions about 2 seconds too late to do anything but pull full up on the collective.  The bottom of the leading edge of the forward red blade whacked this ROKA corporal square in the side of the head at about a 25 degree AOA.  He was wearing a steel pot, but the blade inertia still flung him about 20 feet.   They medevac'd him out on a ROKA UH-1 still breathing but looking like a stomped sack of poo.

Ugh.

Left a big dent in the honeycomb of the bottom of the blade, too.  We had to fly it home like that on a "one-time"

[SJFedor]

Blade droop is a fact: the flight surgeon from 3rd SF Group had the top of his head taken off by an MH-60.  The crew chief tried to stop him and the pilots were helpless - they could only watch.

Droop notwithstanding (yeah, lets not talk aft centrifugal droop stops on the CH-47..  me and the A-511 fire department got real intimate one night after a goggle flight where my FE had decided to swap out the droop stop springs and not bother to write it up the day before), the Chinook's forward blades can come down to something like 3' 9" with the controls out of neutral.

We landed in a rice paddy one day on a ROK haul. Our forward blade arc was just over the paddy dike off our nose.  We had slow-turning blades after shutdown and one of the ROKs wandered over to watch.  I was working the ramp and my crew chief was distracted by someone on the #2 side when the guy stepped up on the paddy dike to get a better view. The pilots caught the guy's actions about 2 seconds too late to do anything but pull full up on the collective.  The bottom of the leading edge of the forward red blade whacked this ROKA corporal square in the side of the head at about a 25 degree AOA.  He was wearing a steel pot, but the blade inertia still flung him about 20 feet.   They medevac'd him out on a ROKA UH-1 still breathing but looking like a stomped sack of poo.

Ugh.

Left a big dent in the honeycomb of the bottom of the blade, too.  We had to fly it home like that on a "one-time"

Lucky doesn't even begin to explain that guy that day...

[NIN]

Lucky doesn't even begin to explain that guy that day...

Well, I picked his steel pot up as they were working on him (it wound up another 30-40 ft downrange from his point of impact) and it was mashed to hell on one side.  I'm not sure how "lucky" the guy really was.

A 600lb rotor blade made of fiberglass, honeycomb, kevlar, stainless steel & nickel even moving "slow" (we were about a rev and a half from the blades stopping, so they were probably moving at 4-5 fps? dunno, never calculated it) carries a crapload of inertia and kinetic energy to transfer.  Had the leading edge whacked him, even at that speed, it probably would have killed him outright.  As it was, judging by the helmet, my guess is that he either suffered a traumatic brain injury or never regained consciousness. 

Back on the original subject:  Up until 2 years ago, I lived just inside the downwind-to-base turn for the 17 RWY at the local airpatch.  It was nice to look up from my back deck and see a J-3 or something puttering over on a lazy Sunday morning.  The Aviation Support Facility, OTOH, was less than a 1/2 mile away directly south, and the UH-60s would often launch off their ramp and go straight north, and bomb over my house at less than 500ft.  While the sound of rotary wing aircraft will put me to sleep, I always expected the Blackhawk Bus Bombers to come thru my roof some night.*

* NIN is not a fan of UH-60s in any incarnation.

[Duke Dillio]

On the UH-60 thing, I remember scraping up a general off a mountain in the ROK.  It was the same year that the entire chain of command for the LRS unit there was relieved after they killed a KATUSA and another soldier on a jump.  Both guys landed in a river and there was no water team on the ground.

I've been in two Blackhawk "incidents."  Fortunately noone was injured in either case but very disturbing to me.  I wouldn't bee too upset to never have to fly in one ever again....

[Hawk200]

Aviation is enherently dangerous, both to the crews and those on the ground, be it military or general aviation. Letting your awareness slip for even a few seconds will, at best, leave you maimed for life. The obvious worst is death. It's not just limited to 'Hawks.

You guys in Chinooks are spoiled  . You rarely have to worry about walking into blades.

[Fireball]

We live under a low level military training route and are treated to the flyby of some sort of military aircraft almost daily. And I mean LOW, about 500-1000 AGL. Most days it is a C-17 or a flight of F-15s or 16s. We've even had a Blackhawk make an emergency landing in my hay field. About a year and a half ago I counted 16 C-17s fly over in formation, awesome.

But the latest has got to be the coolest. I was sitting here a couple of evenings ago when I heard an unfamiliar aircraft reveberation, I stepped outside in time to spot three V-22 Ospreys fly over. Very cool!

[DNall]

It was definately cool, don't get me wrong. But we live in a small community. It's rare to even see a LifeFlight bird, let alone an Army bird flying. No one roped in my yard, but I was ready to get out of the way in case they started to fire that huge gun sticking out of the front

What you saw was probably an MH-60 and that "huge gun sticking out of the front" was a refuling probe.

GC

Can you imagine the recoil though? 

Aviation is enherently dangerous, both to the crews and those on the ground, be it military or general aviation. Letting your awareness slip for even a few seconds will, at best, leave you maimed for life. The obvious worst is death. It's not just limited to 'Hawks.

Think 60s are bad? Don't walk in front of my gun cause I can't absolutely guarantee it won't go off or explode that double feed w/o me touching anything, don't touch nothin cause you'll get a real nice shock and the rockets might do funny stuff. Other then that just stay the hell out of the way cause I can't see crap around the airframe & nothing I can do about it anyway.

[Duke Dillio]

What are you flying DNall?  Apaches?

[Hawk200]

What are you flying DNall?  Apaches?

He's in school to drive ( ) Apache's. Not much else in the Army has guns and rockets.

[cap235629]

What are you flying DNall?  Apaches?

He's in school to drive ( ) Apache's. Not much else in the Army has guns and rockets.

OH-58 Kiowa.......

[cadet cmsgt dotson]

i live were they do mountain traning missions and  f-16s fly over so low that you can wave at the ploit and he can wave back its super cool and just a week ago there was a blackhawk go above my house with the side doors open i saw the 2 polits and gunners

[Hawk200]

What are you flying DNall?  Apaches?

He's in school to drive ( ) Apache's. Not much else in the Army has guns and rockets.

OH-58 Kiowa.......

Delta models, and just barely.

I'd bet money that if DNall was in training for Kiowa's he wouldn't even mention that he was a pilot. For some reason, a lot of people hate the Kiowa.

He may fly one of the TH-67's while he's down there, but that's as close as he's gonna be to flying a Kiowa.

[cap235629]

I was just pointing out another armed Army airframe.

[afgeo4]

I enjoy the sound of F-16's over my house regularly - especially now that they're ramping up night flying.   

Too bad in a few years, that sound will be gone for the silence of Reapers zipping around.   

Total silence, since from what I've read, the Reapers will be housed and launched from Ft. Drum, where a detachment from the 174th will be located. The take-off/landing and maintenance ops would take place at Drum, while mission pilot/sensor operator and unit ops/support would be located at Hancock. Reapers (nor any other UAVs) aren't allowed to operate out of public airports.

[afgeo4]

We live under a low level military training route and are treated to the flyby of some sort of military aircraft almost daily. And I mean LOW, about 500-1000 AGL. Most days it is a C-17 or a flight of F-15s or 16s. We've even had a Blackhawk make an emergency landing in my hay field. About a year and a half ago I counted 16 C-17s fly over in formation, awesome.

But the latest has got to be the coolest. I was sitting here a couple of evenings ago when I heard an unfamiliar aircraft reveberation, I stepped outside in time to spot three V-22 Ospreys fly over. Very cool!

You mean this? No folks, this isn't modified. It's a flight of 15 Globemaster IIIs fromn Charleston AFB, SC over the city of Charleston, SC for a training exercise.

[Hawk200]

I was just pointing out another armed Army airframe.

Not all OH-58's are armed, only a select few. Delta models are capable of being armed, and are commonly referred to as a Kiowa Warrior when they are.

The Kiowa is primarily a scout/observation helicopter.

The biggest difference is that all Apaches have guns, and/or rockets and missiles. Some Blackhawks are armed, but the airframe is not primarily an armed one. Same with the Kiowa.

[DNall]

What are you flying DNall?  Apaches?

yep. be a while yet before I get to start shooting things. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I live near Patrick AFB.  The only flying unit is the 920th Rescue (USAFR-- C-130's and MH-60 Pave Hawks).  There is a C-17 that makes regular visits, and sometimes Tweets from Georgia come by on training flights.

Back when we had an aero club, it made flying interesting.

[♠SARKID♠]

You mean this? No folks, this isn't modified. It's a flight of 15 Globemaster IIIs fromn Charleston AFB, SC over the city of Charleston, SC for a training exercise.

That picture is screams awesome.  Isn't there a wake turbulence issue though?

[SDF_Specialist]

Talking to my father in law this evening. He was telling me that he saw two F-16s and an A-10 flyby his house, then a KC-135 (which I got to see) flyby not too long after that.

[PHall]

You mean this? No folks, this isn't modified. It's a flight of 15 Globemaster IIIs fromn Charleston AFB, SC over the city of Charleston, SC for a training exercise.

That picture is screams awesome.  Isn't there a wake turbulence issue though?

Notice the horizontal and vertical separations between the aircraft. (It's not a visual illusion.)
There are set vertical and horizontal separations for aircraft in formation. (AFI 11-17 Vol III)
With Station Keeping Equipment (SKE) you can do this in IFR conditions and even at night.

[SAR-EMT1]

From everything Ive heard the Globemaster has the most computerized controls of almost any airframe (save maybe the new Raptor)

The thing is really good at SF work.

[Stonewall]

Here at Lackland AFB, there always seems to be a C-5 flying in circles.  My guess is they can only get one of the 7 or so birds to fly at a time so they take turns behind the wheel. 

I remember standing by for take off out of Indonesia when a C-5 came in over us bringing in relief supplies for the tsunami.  We were in a G-4 and I felt like a toy airplane next to the real deal.

Growing up in a navy town and 2 or 3 miles from an ARNG blackhawk and apache unit, it never got old seeing those bad boys fly over my house.  Just makes you feel good.

[PHall]

Here at Lackland AFB, there always seems to be a C-5 flying in circles.  My guess is they can only get one of the 7 or so birds to fly at a time so they take turns behind the wheel. 

I remember standing by for take off out of Indonesia when a C-5 came in over us bringing in relief supplies for the tsunami.  We were in a G-4 and I felt like a toy airplane next to the real deal.

Growing up in a navy town and 2 or 3 miles from an ARNG blackhawk and apache unit, it never got old seeing those bad boys fly over my house.  Just makes you feel good.

The C-5 School House is at Lackland, so yeah, you might see just a couple FRED's in the pattern.

[PHall]

From everything Ive heard the Globemaster has the most computerized controls of almost any airframe (save maybe the new Raptor)

The thing is really good at SF work.

It's SOLL II capabilities are no better then the C-141B's it replaced.
It can just carry more and was built for use with NVG's from day one.

It doesn't have TFR or anything. It just flies low level with the pilots using the ol' Mark I eyeball.

[SAR-EMT1]

I must be mistaken then... I was under the impression that it had a computerized terrain following system for LOW level flight, (under 500 AGL) with radar avoidance in mind for SF team entry via parachute.
-- that begs a question: whats the absolute lowest altitude required for a military parachutist to deploy his chute and land without killing himself? --

I was also under the impression that the plane could run an entire mission - taxi, takeoff, flight, landing, taxi to hanger; totally on autopilot, and that the only reason human pilots were aboard was to handle the mid-air refueling.

I must have been mistaken.
... It seems Ive been awfully gullible lately.

[CadetProgramGuy]

You mean this? No folks, this isn't modified. It's a flight of 15 Globemaster IIIs fromn Charleston AFB, SC over the city of Charleston, SC for a training exercise.

That picture is screams awesome.  Isn't there a wake turbulence issue though?

Notice the horizontal and vertical separations between the aircraft. (It's not a visual illusion.)
There are set vertical and horizontal separations for aircraft in formation. (AFI 11-17 Vol III)
With Station Keeping Equipment (SKE) you can do this in IFR conditions and even at night.

Wake turbulence falls downward from the wingtips as well.

[Gunner C]

I must be mistaken then... I was under the impression that it had a computerized terrain following system for LOW level flight, (under 500 AGL) with radar avoidance in mind for SF team entry via parachute.
-- that begs a question: whats the absolute lowest altitude required for a military parachutist to deploy his chute and land without killing himself? --

I was also under the impression that the plane could run an entire mission - taxi, takeoff, flight, landing, taxi to hanger; totally on autopilot, and that the only reason human pilots were aboard was to handle the mid-air refueling.

I must have been mistaken.
... It seems Ive been awfully gullible lately.

Unless things have changed 500' is the combat minimum.  The aircraft of choice is the MC-130 Combat Talon.  It has some capabilities that the "conventional herks" don't have.  Plus they have the standard of plus or minus 30 seconds over the dz - that's a huge advantage.

The C-17 has a computerized paradrop system.  My experience was that it is too conservative on it's computed air release point (CARP) and the high altitude release point (HARP).  It puts you too close in the air to the desired impact point (DIP).  The jumpmasters' calculation puts the jumper farther away so he doesn't have to hold against the wind the whole time he's in the air.

GC

[bricktonfire]

the other day i sew five OH-58D Kiowa Warrior  and one Blackhawk fly low going to Fort Drum

[mikeylikey]

the other day i sew five OH-58D Kiowa Warrior  and one Blackhawk fly low going to Fort Drum

Fort Drum = worst year in the Army for Mikey.  How can anyone live in that cold of an environment.  Not to mention, when the snow pile fell off the overhang into the PX onto me and two others.  I thought that place should be closed.  Heck the BOQ's were old WWII barracks.  Officers DO NOT subject themselves to that type of misery.  Only good thing......Canada was so fun.  However, I am sick of Maple flavored anything      

[Tubacap]

^So you've never been to FTIG???  You should be used to the T-#### barracks.  Lead paint is apparently tastey as well as the lead lined water from the water fountains.

[mikeylikey]

^ Fort Indiantown Gap PA, is a death trap.  I hope this year at Encampment they get the Cadets into those new Battalion Barracks buildings they were building.  I am sure it is a long shot, but someone in PAWG needs to press for that.  Aren't you the Chief TAC or training guru?? 

Indiantown GAP, saw the most lives lost to fires in those old WWII buildings than any other Post in the Continental United States (from 1954-1999).  They were supposed to tear them ALL down by 2005 (as per DOD Directive), but I guess our funding for National Guard facilities was "appropriated" to other DOD activities like paying civilian contractors billions for work that should be done by Enlisted personell overseas.   

I hugely digress.  Anyway, I wish you good luck at Indiantown Gap this summer, I read the fire dept on Post was cut down from 7 full-time guys to 4.  That may factor into response time.  But then again, those Old temporary barracks will completely burn in under 2 minutes, so the Fire Dept is really only for show.

(Heck, for Ranger challenge this year, the Battalion Commander decided that we would not subject our ROTC cadets to Indiantown Gaps living arrangements.  We all stayed at Carlisle Barracks in buildings that were supposedly designed by George Washington for his Officers.  Let me say, if you can ever get out there Carlisle Barracks is a real step back in time.  It is one of the finest Army installations in World.  Plus, there are like 1000 Colonels and 100 Generals walking around the place).   

[cap235629]

On the UH-60 thing, I remember scraping up a general off a mountain in the ROK.  It was the same year that the entire chain of command for the LRS unit there was relieved after they killed a KATUSA and another soldier on a jump.  Both guys landed in a river and there was no water team on the ground.

I've been in two Blackhawk "incidents."  Fortunately noone was injured in either case but very disturbing to me.  I wouldn't bee too upset to never have to fly in one ever again....

When I was an Active Duty Army MP we called the UH-60 the "Crash Hawk".  In a 2 year period we had 3 Black Hawks go down on Fort Chaffee,  2 with multiple fatalities. The worst one was in 1990 when a bird from the 10th Special Forces went down and killed 5, caused by a 65 cent washer in the tail rotor. That was a long couple of days.  We had to hike in to the sight and cut an LZ to bring in medical personnel. The crash was so severe that I could touch the top of the engine cowling while standing up and putting my hand directly in front of me.  I hated flying on the Crash Hawk so much I once took a butt chewing and a counseling statement for "forgetting" my dogtags and missing a days worth of flight ops.

[Fireball]

You mean this? No folks, this isn't modified. It's a flight of 15 Globemaster IIIs fromn Charleston AFB, SC over the city of Charleston, SC for a training exercise.

Yup, except my vantage point was from below and behind. As they flew away you could see the separation between aircraft, beautifully done.

Tags - MIKE