Future CAP fleet

[Eclipse]

I don't know about that "more available" comment, especially in smaller GA airports.

Also consider that outside North America, 100LL is much more difficult to find.  Jet-A is everywhere worldwide.

Anecdotally interesting, but not really relevent to CAP, nor the average 3-x's a year restaurant-running GA pilot.

[NorCal21]

Does anyone know what the estimated current fleet age is?

[JeffDG]

Does anyone know what the estimated current fleet age is?

That should be derivable from WMIRS data if I had access to it all, both in terms of years old and TTAF, rather than estimating.

[Eclipse]

In my wing, across 9 aircraft, it is 18.5 years old average.

The 172's are all in the 27-28 range, and the 182's, except for one, are 10 or under.

The oldest plane we have is 31 years old, and the newest is 4.

[NIN]

http://www.airnav.com/fuel/report.html

JetA is, approximately, $.60 a gal cheaper on a national average.  At my local airpatch (just seen about 2 hrs ago) JetA is $5.95, 100LL was $6.00.  A nickel ain't much.

[Critical AOA]

I don't know about that "more available" comment, especially in smaller GA airports.

Also consider that outside North America, 100LL is much more difficult to find.  Jet-A is everywhere worldwide.

Exactly!  This is one of the prime factors driving not only Cessna but other aircraft manufacturers to pursue Jet-A powered diesels for GA aircraft.  North America is not their only market. 

[NorCal21]

In my wing, across 9 aircraft, it is 18.5 years old average.

The 172's are all in the 27-28 range, and the 182's, except for one, are 10 or under.

The oldest plane we have is 31 years old, and the newest is 4.

Wow. So some are pretty old. Now, as a relative newb to the air side are those "old" aircraft? Clearly they're not new, but as they similar to an 76 Datsun for instance? What's a good number for an age of an aircraft in that we'd want and not saying its brand new.

[SarDragon]

In my wing, across 9 aircraft, it is 18.5 years old average.

The 172's are all in the 27-28 range, and the 182's, except for one, are 10 or under.

The oldest plane we have is 31 years old, and the newest is 4.

Wow. So some are pretty old. Now, as a relative newb to the air side are those "old" aircraft? Clearly they're not new, but as they similar to an 76 Datsun for instance? What's a good number for an age of an aircraft in that we'd want and not saying its brand new.

I used to drive a '76 Datsun. It had issues. Most aircraft are much more well built, and maintained. Old is relative. As long as the required periodic maintenance is done, and the pilots follow good flying practices, there's no reason to arbitrarily get rid of older airframes. I think the biggest reason for getting rid of older CAP planes is that the engines have timed out for complete overhaul. Someone jump with more info if you have it.

[NorCal21]

I used to drive a '76 Datsun. It had issues. Most aircraft are much more well built, and maintained. Old is relative. As long as the required periodic maintenance is done, and the pilots follow good flying practices, there's no reason to arbitrarily get rid of older airframes. I think the biggest reason for getting rid of older CAP planes is that the engines have timed out for complete overhaul. Someone jump with more info if you have it.

OK, so what you're saying is age really doesn't matter so much as what the maintenance cost is to a cost/return basis. OK. Makes sense really. My old squadron had a G8. It was pretty cool actually, but holy crap old. I actually had the least amount of air sickness I've ever had flying in that because I was backwards. I don't get air sick in general, but if my sinuses start to drain they usually drain to the stomach versus being spit out and then you get some nausea going on.

Any suggestion for that?

[SarDragon]

I use ginger. Either gum, or candied. Trader Joe's has some dark chocolate covered stuff that's great.

[Critical AOA]

OK, so what you're saying is age really doesn't matter so much as what the maintenance cost is to a cost/return basis. OK. Makes sense really. My old squadron had a G8. It was pretty cool actually, but holy crap old.

The GippsAero GA8, which I assume you are referring to, was first produced in 2000 which makes the oldest ones currently 13 years old.  I would not even call that old, let alone "holy crap old".  That is really pretty young for airplanes.

[LegacyAirman]

In my wing, across 9 aircraft, it is 18.5 years old average.

The 172's are all in the 27-28 range, and the 182's, except for one, are 10 or under.

The oldest plane we have is 31 years old, and the newest is 4.

Wow. So some are pretty old. Now, as a relative newb to the air side are those "old" aircraft? Clearly they're not new, but as they similar to an 76 Datsun for instance? What's a good number for an age of an aircraft in that we'd want and not saying its brand new.

Maintenance is the key. I just saw where a guy is supposed to have driven his 1966 Volvo over 3 million miles since he purchased it new. Up until 2004 I was flying in 1964 & '65 WC-130's through hurricanes. Sure, a couple of minor problems now and then; but most of them are still flying, although they've been sent elsewhere now.

[Eclipse]

Even at minimum expectations most aircraft are maintained at a level well beyond your average street vehicle.

CAP exceeds those minimum expectations by considerable factors, which means our aircraft are used for decades after they
are removed from our fleet.  Generally, what "breaks" a plane is a hard landing, or engine issue that is cost prohibitive for
the owner to repair, other then that, there's no reason an aircraft can't fly indefinitely.  Metal fatigue and corrosion
are certainly factors, but can be mitigated during inspections.

[lordmonar]

Well....there is a absolute life expectancy for any air frame......it all comes down to maintenance costs.

At some point it is just cheaper to scrap the airframe then to try to keep if flying.

But yes.....If you are willing to keep pouring money into an airframe it will keep flying indefinably.

There are still WWI planes flying around....and DC-3 and P-38's and B-52s and even some older planes.

[Critical AOA]

There are a lot of correct statements here in regard to maintenance being the key, that there are limits to an airframe's life, that fatigue and corrosion are major issues.  What everyone needs to realize however is that none of this has anything at all to do with how old in years an aircraft is.  It has to do with flight hours and flight cycles.  Fatigue happens from flying not sitting.  Also on pressurized aircraft, cycles come into play as the more times you pressurize and depressurize a pressure vessel, the more fatigue you cause and the increase chances of cracking.  That is why commercial jets undergo periodic NDT as part of their ICA / maintenance program.
 
But in respect to aircraft most of us normally fly, Cessna recently put out a notice that recommends a life limit of 30,000 hours for many 100 series airframes.  That is a ton of hours.

BTW, I recently flew right seat in the EAA's Ford Tri-Motor which was built in 1929.  It is in great shape and will most likely fly for many more years to come. 

[Eclipse]

This popped up today an A&SS about the AVGAS issue:
http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/The-Fight-Over-Avgas-215585091.html?c=y&story=fullstory