Future CAP fleet

[NIN]

Looks like "normally aspirated" Skyhawks are going away in favor of the JT-A

[PHall]

...or ask senior members to lay off the pizzas, donuts, and cheese fries?

Flyer

Stereotype much?

[Critical AOA]

...or ask senior members to lay off the pizzas, donuts, and cheese fries?

Flyer

Stereotype much?

No doubt.  I hate donuts.

[Critical AOA]

Looks like "normally aspirated" Skyhawks are going away in favor of the JT-A

I have not heard anything in regards to the Skyhawk going away.  Also, last year when the JT-A was first announced, I am certain that the articles said that only the T182 was being replaced.  That must have changed or I misread. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Oh yeah.

All cops receive free donuts from corner stores. And take free apples from those markets which have their fruits and vegetables open on display.

Library teachers are old ladies wearing their hair on buns and going "Shhhh!" all the time.

And PHall can never take jokes, the same jokes which others in this medium give out. In high school, PHall was the bully pickingon all others.

Flyer

[Cliff_Chambliss]

I feel there is still a lot of life left in the Cessna 100 series aircraft.  Before closing the Maxwell AFB Aero Club had a T-41A (Cessna 172G) that had more than 17,000 hours on the airframe and was still a very nice flying plane (in spite of having only 145hp).  After the club closed that airplane was sold at auction and the new owner "fixed" it.  Gone through from end to end and top to bottom, and then an STC for a 180hp engine, new interior, Aspen Panel, new paint, completely re-rigged, and today that plane looks and flies like a brand new machine and still for a fraction of what a new plane would cost. 

[bflynn]

...or ask senior members to lay off the pizzas, donuts, and cheese fries?

Flyer

Sure.  And that would leave...what, 30% of the current SM members left?  If you don't want us around, we definately have other things to do.

[NIN]

I remembered a discussion I had with an esteemed CAP friend of mine (who is a Wing Commander) on this very subject.

The bare Skylane numbers, as I recall, are for the most recent production C-182

Skylane - 937NM - 145 Kts - 4 seats - 1,142 lbs - $398K
Skylane JT-A - 1360NM - 4 seats - 1,018 lbs - $515K

1142 - 1018 = 124 lbs (1 small SM or one semi-large cadet)

The range difference is 423NM. That's about 3.5 hrs at a comfortable cruise (CAP very seldom has the need to use the 937NM range of the 182, let alone 1360, which, from the center of the country, allows a radius of action that encompasses both coasts!)

The JT-A burns 11gph at 90% power (mind you, I'm not a pilot, so I don't know if 90% power is cruise in the JT-A or not, but I'm betting it is, or its at least close).

By my "back of the envelope" calculations, thats 35-38 gal of Jet-A.  Jet-A is, what, 6.7 or 6.8 lbs / gal?  So 38 gal of Jet-A is 256lbs.  So you gain back the 124 lbs plus another 132 lbs.

So don't fly the thing with full tanks when the mission parameters dictate.

Tempest in a teapot.

[A.Member]

Annual flight hours reportedly continue to decline across the organization.   So, the greater concern is addressing this problem and keeping the aircraft we have as opposed to figuring out what airframe might meet our need a few decades from now. 

FWIW, agree with the earlier comment on LSA's - they are pretty worthless to us, regardless of where you're located.  UAV's anyone?

[LGM30GMCC]

Bah, forget the 206s, let's go on up to the 208s  :clap: Plenty of useful load, can throw in plenty of sensor packages, and in a pinch could airlift small ground teams to remote stretches and leave 'em there. 

[PHall]

Bah, forget the 206s, let's go on up to the 208s  :clap: Plenty of useful load, can throw in plenty of sensor packages, and in a pinch could airlift small ground teams to remote stretches and leave 'em there. 

They only cost about $2.1 million each!

[Mustang]

The C-208 (Caravan) isn't terribly practical for CAP costwise, but the Quest Kodiak might be! Is essentially a better-engineered Gippsland with a PT6 turboprop engine and dual G1000 setup. Very nice aircraft. 

But honestly, I'm happy settling for a turbo 206.

[Critical AOA]

The C-208 (Caravan) isn't terribly practical for CAP costwise, but the Quest Kodiak might be! Is essentially a better-engineered Gippsland with a PT6 turboprop engine and dual G1000 setup. Very nice aircraft. 

But honestly, I'm happy settling for a turbo 206.

Thank you for your sacrifice.   

[A.Member]

Anything that gets away from the 172/182 negatively impacts our value proposition.  Who's going to maintain proficiency, especially at the higher rates?  Again, we're having trouble just putting hours on the most common airframe in GA.  We need to stay focused on core competencies.  And any oddball aircraft, such as the Gippsland (or Kodiak et al) is just....well, no!

[Brad]

Granted I'm not as up to speed on the performance and maintainability of the 182 as I need to be, being "only" a Mission Observer, but I did find this:

http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/pistons/cessna-introduces-jet-skylane

"Cessna's Turbo 182 NXT delivers a solution that the marketplace has been asking for," said Jeff Umscheid, Cessna 172, 182, 206 business leader. "The 230-horsepower jet-A engine offers customers increased range and greater payload capacity and does not sacrifice performance. This plane offers significantly lower direct operating costs due to the fact that jet-A fuel is typically more affordable and much more widely available."

[Eclipse]

I don't know about that "more available" comment, especially in smaller GA airports.

[SarDragon]

FWIW, all three of our local GA airports have Jet-A. SEE, MYF, and SDM. Primary runways exceed 4500'.

[BillB]

At all area airports I've seen, Jet-A is more expensive than 100-LL av gas.

[Critical AOA]

At all area airports I've seen, Jet-A is more expensive than 100-LL av gas.

That is a rarity.  Where are you at?

[JeffDG]

I don't know about that "more available" comment, especially in smaller GA airports.

Also consider that outside North America, 100LL is much more difficult to find.  Jet-A is everywhere worldwide.