American Pilot Declares Emergency at JFK

[tdepp]

It's truly amazing to see the difference in opinions between those who have flown/flown in heavy aircraft and those who only have flown in light aircraft.

And like the man said, the FAA and the NTSB will figure out what really happened. Complete tapes are wonderful things.

Doesn't matter what any of us think here, even my brilliant and well reasoned opinion.  The feds will sort it out. 

[simon]

What was the pilot's urgency? That is the key missing information.

Other things that help assess the pilot's call in declaring the emergency are the weather conditions (Although he was on a visual) and the overall stress of the ATC environment at the time.

Without this information however, I will say a couple of the things:

- If he was short on fuel, the controller should have been told sooner. Why he was short on fuel - well, that could get complicated and may come down to the business reality of how the Part 121 guys do the coast to coast. FAA rules vs. how pilots and companies try to wiggle it in.

- If he was tired and stressed, that might play a part. Maybe he overreacted to the inactive localizer?

The big deal was that he made life pretty hard for ATC. Yes, they are trained to deal with this. But I'd really want to know why he felt it neccessary to move everybody out of the way. Not wanting to go around and set up for another runway is NOT a valid reason for declaring an emergency. He just forced EVERYBODY at JFK to reshuffle, including I'd wager some holding by others. He could of flown the runway heading as instructed and gone missed. There is no requirement to land. ATC sounded busy. At least it would have given the controller time to get everybody else sorted.

I'd say it is going to be a thorough interview. Whether we get the truth is another matter. The pilot has the right, but needs to have a good reason.

[Short Field]

The big deal was that he made life pretty hard for ATC.

As a pilot declaring an emergency, I really don't care if I make life hard for ATC and that should be the absolutely least of my concerns.

As in all cases, the FAA will sort it out on the ground - after the plane has landed and everyone is safe.

[mbrown]

let's think this one out, almost everyone here is slamming this pilot for declaring in what was his mind, an emergency. if we set the tone that says you're 'emergency' will be scrutinized to hell to all pilots, we might scare pilots into not declaring an emergency. if this pilot had that mentality, maybe he wouldn't have declared and maybe his plane could have crashed into the runway and killed all on board. Then the whole process starts all over again and I guarantee some of the same people slamming this guy because they think he just wanted 'connivence' would be the 1st ones calling foul and saying this guy should have erred on the side of caution and declared an emergency. 20/20 hindsight is a gift we all have isn't it?

[heliodoc]

Like I said before...

This is excluding the airline drivers and ATP types....

The CAP "spinner" pilots who have tons of hours thinking they were right there throughout the thick and thin of it,,,and KNOW it alll....

LET THE NTSB and FAA sort it out....Anyone here on CAPTalk....PURE CONJECTURE

As I stated before and MR Tdepp also.......see above.  CAP second guessing anyone in the cockpit? That sure is pretty swell folks...again for low and even large hour C172 and C182 pilots in CAP....Pure conjecture...you were not there and I KNOW I wasn't there.......keeeep the CAP trap quiet til the reports come out.

Makes CAP pilots look less and less professional EVERY day

[tdepp]

^^^^Indeed, Helio.  Or to summarize some of the comments: "Ready. Fire. Aim."

[Thrashed]

Everyone says to let the FAA and NTSB handle it.  Handle what?  I've declared a few emergencies in airliners and I've never talked to the FAA or NTSB about it. I'm sure a record is made of it, but who cares? This is such a non-issue.

[heliodoc]

You are right, Thrash....

Should be a non issue to most of the GA type pilots here anyway....

[N Harmon]

Everyone says to let the FAA and NTSB handle it.  Handle what?  I've declared a few emergencies in airliners and I've never talked to the FAA or NTSB about it. I'm sure a record is made of it, but who cares? This is such a non-issue.

You never filed a devation report, or incident report or had to sign anything?

[a2capt]

I've declared twice- and was present when someone was flying my leased back aircraft inbound while holding the windshield together with one hand, and declared an emergency, and squawked 7600 because he said it was so loud he couldn't hear anything anyway. Equipment followed him to the tie down spot and no paperwork was ever filled out.

[Thrashed]

Everyone says to let the FAA and NTSB handle it.  Handle what?  I've declared a few emergencies in airliners and I've never talked to the FAA or NTSB about it. I'm sure a record is made of it, but who cares? This is such a non-issue.

You never filed a devation report, or incident report or had to sign anything?

I file a company report.  Some are forwarded to the Feds.  Like I said, "I've never talked to the FAA or NTSB about it."  Nor was there any electronic or written communication.  No one cares. It's not a big deal.  One emergency was smoke in the cockpit, another two were flight control issues, and one was hydraulic system.

[N Harmon]

I file a company report.  Some are forwarded to the Feds.  Like I said, "I've never talked to the FAA or NTSB about it."  Nor was there any electronic or written communication.  No one cares. It's not a big deal.  One emergency was smoke in the cockpit, another two were flight control issues, and one was hydraulic system.

Were any into major national airports and involved heated conversations with ATC where you gave them ultimatums before declaring your emergency? I think in cases where the nature of the emergency is doubted, or the actions of the pilots appeared not to be very safe, the FAA and/or NTSB should get involved.

I think this particular incident involving the American Airlines pilot, even if the pilot was in the right, should be treated like a big deal.

[tdepp]

Everyone says to let the FAA and NTSB handle it.  Handle what?  I've declared a few emergencies in airliners and I've never talked to the FAA or NTSB about it. I'm sure a record is made of it, but who cares? This is such a non-issue.

You never filed a devation report, or incident report or had to sign anything?

I file a company report.  Some are forwarded to the Feds.  Like I said, "I've never talked to the FAA or NTSB about it."  Nor was there any electronic or written communication.  No one cares. It's not a big deal.  One emergency was smoke in the cockpit, another two were flight control issues, and one was hydraulic system.

Yikes! Thrash, what would your company consider a "big deal"?  To a lay person like me, they sound like big deals.  Is there a reporting standard to the FAA or NTSB?  In other words, what triggers a report to the feds and what doesn't?

[Short Field]

Yikes! Thrash, what would your company consider a "big deal"?  To a lay person like me, they sound like big deals.  Is there a reporting standard to the FAA or NTSB?  In other words, what triggers a report to the feds and what doesn't?

The radio call that includes the instructions to "Call this number after you land".    Or the Federal Aviation Regulations
91.3 (c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule
under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request
of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation
to the Administrator.

121.557 (c) Whenever a pilot in command or dispatcher
exercises emergency authority...The person declaring the
emergency shall send a written report of any deviation
through the certificate holder's operations manager, to the
Administrator.   

[simon]

"If the pilot lives, you'll never find out what really happened."

Hopefully we can all agree that there is some explaining to do. Sometimes the ATC vs. pilot tempo gets a little heated, but nothing results from it. I suspect with the coverage that this got in the media that the Feds will have some kind of hearing just to placate everyone. We all know that nobody will get into trouble. The unions will ensure that. So don't hold your breath on the findings, if any.

I still stand by my comment that regardless of no bent metal, if the pilot didn't like the clearance, he should have simply said "Unable" (Like Sully in that model moment) and left it to ATC to vector him instead of coming in guns blazing and blasting everybody out of the way. After all, this was JFK. Everyone know they were short a runway and operating in high winds. Getting everyone in with reduced capacity isn't exactly a cakewalk.

If the pilot had a good reason, so be it. But he sounded like an ass on the radio. If I was the guy sent around, I'd want an explanation.

And to those that say American limits the 767 crosswind component to 29 knots, that's fine, see my previous paragraph. "Unable".

Since rampant speculation IS the job of web forums, my guess is they were low on fuel and didn't fess up. Who'll match me?