American Pilot Declares Emergency at JFK

DG · May 11, 2010, 01:01:11 AM

So if ATC assigns me something I don't like, no problem, I just declare an emergency.

http://www.avweb.com/other/jfkemergencygo.mp3

1LtNurseOfficer · May 11, 2010, 01:28:50 AM

So not getting the runway you want and/or having to make a turn to line up for approach is an "emergency?"

PHall · May 11, 2010, 01:32:02 AM

With the winds they were calling, the crosswinds may have been out of limits for that aircraft.

So before you slam this guy, what kind of aircraft was it? What was his weight? Was the runway wet or dry?

NCRblues · May 11, 2010, 01:43:29 AM

^^
He never said the winds were to much or to much weight..... all he said was if he didn't get the runway he WANTED he was going to declare an IFE.....

Fire this man....fire him now

cap235629 · May 11, 2010, 03:15:14 AM

here is the whole story

click here

cap235629 · May 11, 2010, 03:17:59 AM

and some interesting analysis

click here

JC004 · May 11, 2010, 03:29:33 AM

So what happens if he declares an emergency and he didn't have a real one? Is its the final call of the pilot after it's all over, or can it be challenged? Does he get in crap if they determine he declared an emergency because he felt like it?

heliodoc · May 11, 2010, 04:25:03 AM

Obviously, some of the commentary in the analysis is in favor of the pilots...

Me being a low time pilot and in CAP...

I will keep mouth shut until an investigation team spells it out.......

Maybe some the CAP "spinner" pilots could the same

A 75 or a 76 requires a liiiiitle more knowledge than flying a C172 or C182 series....lets leave the professionals to answer the real issues of what determines the apparent "emergency."

Otherwise, CAPTalk is, once again, Monday morning quarterbacking someone else's flying....maybe we need MORE airline drivers evaluating US

PHall · May 11, 2010, 04:30:23 AM

Quote from: JC004 on May 11, 2010, 03:29:33 AM
So what happens if he declares an emergency and he didn't have a real one? Is its the final call of the pilot after it's all over, or can it be challenged? Does he get in crap if they determine he declared an emergency because he felt like it?

Yes he can "get in crap" for declaring an emergency when there isn't one. But they usually tend to error on the side of safety and not call the pilot on it unless it's really flagrant.

Flying Pig · May 11, 2010, 05:05:19 PM

Theres a couple of heavy pilots on CAPTalk. Maybe after they get done screwing around in London, Tokyo and Sydney they could give us some commentary.
Flying in my C206 Heavy, I could land on a sidewalk if I needed to. I've never flown something or had to make decisions with 500 people sitting behind me.

Major Lord · May 11, 2010, 05:25:33 PM

If I am riding in the back seat of an aircraft, that is the guy I want as the driver! He has gonads the size of Alabama, and uses them to dominate a situation which in his judgment, requires a command decision taken for safety's sake. I am sure he knew in advance that he would have to stand tall before the man at some point and take full responsibility, but he acted decisively and with enormous resolution. Since I have not heard about any recent incidents ending in flaming aircraft and scattered bodies, I guess it worked out okay(?) Actually, by New York standards, the whole exchange sounded pretty civil, where a request for a hotdog can start with an argument and end with a fistfight.

Major Lord

heliodoc · May 11, 2010, 05:31:09 PM

I am with on that, Rob

After 2.5 years flying skydivers from 1,500 to 12,000 ft agl with 5 SOB and WATCHING my loads and CG limits, opening the door at 80 kts hanging near stall speed

Returning doing the cautionary range descents followed by some other commercial maneuvers

Then doing again for approx 8 hours a day is a LITTLE different than CAP flying ...you know ..... straight and level ..... ooohh 1000 ft flying

Again CAP needs to wait to find out what exactly the emergency was about. You are right, Rob, 500 pax on board is QUITE a bit different than any CAP mission....the only thing related 3 on board vs 200 or whatever on board. Different than us C182 and C206 drivers

I just worry about those CAPTalkers wanting to "fire him , Fire him now" attitudes...No of us were there

Keep the cheeeeep and cheeeeesy CAP commentary about firings to ones self unless you are ready to assume command of that flight, Mister!!!

N Harmon · May 11, 2010, 07:08:16 PM

Quote from: Major Lord on May 11, 2010, 05:25:33 PMIf I am riding in the back seat of an aircraft, that is the guy I want as the driver!

Maybe. What if you were riding in the back seat of one of the other aircraft in the airspace? Chances are better you would be on one of those rather than *his* plane.

Declarations of emergencies cause a lot of problems for air traffic. It requires aircraft up the stream to be put into holds and diverted. Once over with, you then have to decide which aircraft in the hold is low on fuel and what not because if not then you'll have another emergency on your hands.

The pilot has some explaining to do, that's all. And until he does, we should hold off on judgement. But throwing up our arms and saying "W00P, plane isn't bent, no harm"...that's no good either.

heliodoc · May 11, 2010, 07:19:25 PM

Remember Rob

My cheeeep and cheeeesy commentary was NOT directed at you!

An earlier poster!

Major Lord · May 11, 2010, 07:32:10 PM

Quote from: N Harmon on May 11, 2010, 07:08:16 PM
Quote from: Major Lord on May 11, 2010, 05:25:33 PMIf I am riding in the back seat of an aircraft, that is the guy I want as the driver!

Maybe. What if you were riding in the back seat of one of the other aircraft in the airspace? Chances are better you would be on one of those rather than *his* plane.

Declarations of emergencies cause a lot of problems for air traffic. It requires aircraft up the stream to be put into holds and diverted. Once over with, you then have to decide which aircraft in the hold is low on fuel and what not because if not then you'll have another emergency on your hands.

The pilot has some explaining to do, that's all. And until he does, we should hold off on judgement. But throwing up our arms and saying "W00P, plane isn't bent, no harm"...that's no good either.

Indeed. Emergencies ( even in flight) are very inconvenient........I admit that I am giving this pilot the presumption that he was in a better position to judge the safety of his aircraft, crew, and passengers, then perhaps the guy in the control tower who may tend to view the problem as a convoluted scheduling problem. Both sides could be right or wrong in this to varying degrees, but this guy has the courage of his convictions. He did not have to text the Company to ask for a legal decision, or flip a coin; He as a commander made a strong and fast decision. He is a commander, not a manager.

Major Lord

Major Lord

tdepp · May 11, 2010, 10:24:29 PM

I'm guessing the pilot had his sleeve braids an 1/8th of an inch off of where they should have been. I'm just trying to turn the discussion to where it always ends up: uniforms.

Major Lord · May 11, 2010, 10:26:18 PM

Shall we take odds over whether he was a CAP cadet?

Major Lord

tdepp · May 11, 2010, 10:39:57 PM

Quote from: Major Lord on May 11, 2010, 07:32:10 PM

He is a commander, not a manager.

Major Lord

:clap: Here, here. America used to be full of commanders, now it is full of managers. Which of course means he's screwed in our corporate America.

Flying Pig · May 11, 2010, 11:28:19 PM

Or hes just a jerk. We havent established that yet. But seeing as how a lot of managers are jerks, could be a possibility.

Rotorhead · May 12, 2010, 12:17:25 AM

Quote from: Major Lord on May 11, 2010, 05:25:33 PM
If I am riding in the back seat of an aircraft, that is the guy I want as the driver! He has gonads the size of Alabama, and uses them to dominate a situation which in his judgment, requires a command decision taken for safety's sake.

..except for the potential mid-airs he caused among all the other traffic that had to be moved for him.