How Many Ribbons?

[RogueLeader]

Two of my military awards are due in part (one exclusively) to my CAP service. Why would I NOT wear them?

[abdsp51]

  It's not clear to me why members would be allowed to wear any armed forces occupational designations insignia  (e.g. pilot, navigator, security police, information management, nurse, doctor, etc.) on their CAP AF type uniforms, since it likely has no bearing on their current CAP duties.

Because we worked hard to earn them and have a great deal of pride in our accomplishments?

Yep and help shows what is brought to the table.

[lordmonar]

Well it all comes down to how much we are willing to piss off the USAF.

Assuming that the USAF does not want our FAT and FUZZIES in USAF style uniforms.....we could just say......"no this is what we are going to wear" and let the USAF do what it will to us.

Of all the arguments that goes on about this subject...I agree that we need to have ONE uniform with ONE set of rules.   If we can't make a compromise with the USAF over a USAF style uniform.....then we should just pick our own and go with it.

I would hate looseing the USAF blues....but would rather have a single uniform.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Well it all comes down to how much we are willing to piss off the USAF.

That's been the modus operandi ever since the berry boards...worrying about pissing the USAF off when that worry is largely unfounded.

.....then we should just pick our own and go with it.

I would hate looseing the USAF blues....but would rather have a single uniform.

And what choices would we be given?

You know bloody good and well it would have to be grey.

[lordmonar]

So?

I really don't hate the gray....except that there is no "standard shade".

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So?

I really don't hate the gray....except that there is no "standard shade".

I do, and many others do.

It is colourless and has naught to do with "aviation," civil or military.

There is no standardised headgear, and no true service dress option.

I would like it a lot better if a blue shirt were allowed.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I don't mind the Grey and Whites, but I would love a flight cap. I would also love a Service jacket. Even a simple 3 button, no pocket gray (like the AF coat basically). Set up the same way as the Blues, and there ya go.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

d

I don't mind the Grey and Whites, but I would love a flight cap. I would also love a Service jacket. Even a simple 3 button, no pocket gray (like the AF coat basically). Set up the same way as the Blues, and there ya go.

heck a Tweed jacket that you're able to put awards and badges on would be a massive improvement!!!   

[Garibaldi]

d

I don't mind the Grey and Whites, but I would love a flight cap. I would also love a Service jacket. Even a simple 3 button, no pocket gray (like the AF coat basically). Set up the same way as the Blues, and there ya go.

heck a Tweed jacket that you're able to put awards and badges on would be a massive improvement!!!

So we could look like the Surgeon General? I have always wondered why (s)he wears a uniform. Is it dependent on what branch of the service (s)he was in when (s)he got tapped? Or is that an actual uniformed branch of the government?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I've thought of something like the old Air America uniforms, and aired it on CT, but even that got a less-than favourable response from the anti-military types.   This boggles me, since the blasted things are grey!





I don't get it.  The elephant in the room is that the powers-that-be are skittish about us looking too much like the USAF, but there seems to be no problem with us looking like the old East German Luftstreitkräfte.

So we could look like the Surgeon General? I have always wondered why (s)he wears a uniform. Is it dependent on what branch of the service (s)he was in when (s)he got tapped? Or is that an actual uniformed branch of the government?

The Surgeon General heads the U.S. Public Health Service, which, among other things, provides health care for the USCG.

[AirDX]

So we could look like the Surgeon General? I have always wondered why (s)he wears a uniform. Is it dependent on what branch of the service (s)he was in when (s)he got tapped? Or is that an actual uniformed branch of the government?

There are 7 uniformed services in the US - the Commissioned Corps of the US Public Health Service is one.  The Surgeon General is the head of the USPHS.  Note on her official portrait, since she has no prior service, she wears only a single ribbon, the Regular Corps Ribbon.

[68w20]

d

I don't mind the Grey and Whites, but I would love a flight cap. I would also love a Service jacket. Even a simple 3 button, no pocket gray (like the AF coat basically). Set up the same way as the Blues, and there ya go.

heck a Tweed jacket that you're able to put awards and badges on would be a massive improvement!!!

So we could look like the Surgeon General? I have always wondered why (s)he wears a uniform. Is it dependent on what branch of the service (s)he was in when (s)he got tapped? Or is that an actual uniformed branch of the government?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USPHS

http://usphs.gov/

[spacecommand]

Both the NOAA and USPHS Commissioned Corps (who the Surgeon General leads) wear uniforms similar to the US Navy/Coast Guard but with distinctive insignia. 

[GroundHawg]

So we could look like the Surgeon General? I have always wondered why (s)he wears a uniform. Is it dependent on what branch of the service (s)he was in when (s)he got tapped? Or is that an actual uniformed branch of the government?

There are 7 uniformed services in the US - the Commissioned Corps of the US Public Health Service is one.  The Surgeon General is the head of the USPHS.  Note on her official portrait, since she has no prior service, she wears only a single ribbon, the Regular Corps Ribbon.

Im working on a commission with the USPHS now. Im pretty sure hitting the powerball would be easier.

[jimmydeanno]

But how do they get their mission done without having an enlisted corps?

[ColonelJack]

Both the NOAA and USPHS Commissioned Corps (who the Surgeon General leads) wear uniforms similar to the US Navy/Coast Guard but with distinctive insignia.

And the Navy doesn't make a big deal out of the fact that NOAA and USPHS officers don't always fit the uniform guidelines ... look at former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, for instance.  Full beard and quite a bit overweight ... but he was in uniform.  The current Surgeon General - who I am certain is a fine physician - wouldn't exactly be a recruiting poster for the Navy either.

Perhaps the "distinctive insignia" - which, unless you're looking for it, isn't all that distinctive - isn't so much an issue to the Navy as it is to the Air Force, vis-a-vis us.

As the kids would put it ... "I'm just sayin'..."

Jack

[Nolan Teel]

What about one ribbon that says you earned all the ribbons? We could also do devices for how many times you earned all the ribbons?    :clap: Couldn't
resist!

Allllrighty I think I may jump into the fire for a bit. 

Regarding too many 'candy' ribbons. Because of the host of different ways one can get promoted I can see value in the PD ribbons still. (The senior who has come up through the PD program to become Captain vs the CFI who did Lvl 1 and then pinned on Capt.)

I can see the argument to shed the Membership ribbon but I can also see it as a way of saying 'thank you' and a tiny bit of motivation for someone who has just come into the program. If done with a little bit of ceremony and genuine appreciation it can help the newbie feel wanted and valued in the 6 months prior to pinning on 2d Lt. I don't have a problem with that.

Regarding G/Ws vs Blues. It actually cost me more money to set up G/Ws than it did blues and requires more work to put them on in some cases. I'm an AD AF Officer. I need to switch out 2 things on my shirt and 'Poof!' CAP shirt. 1 thing on my flight cap. Service dress is even easier. I also wear the G/Ws sometimes (rarely) and (if you couldn't guess) I am neither fat nor fuzzy. I wear them in the same manner in which I wear my blues. Mx on them is just as heavy. Comfort is the same as blues.

I don't wear any of my military ribbons on any of my CAP uniforms. I'm not a big guy (5'7" 130lbs) so I just don't have room for that many ribbons plus my various wings/badges. The only AF item I regularly wear on my uniform is my missile badge. At NSC we could only wear 2 badges total on G/Ws and Blues (don't know why, but hey) and I was a little bummed but I played around with what 2 to wear and it amused me on some level. The few days I wore G/Ws I was a little bummed I couldn't wear my missile badge, but I got over it. If a young little pup like me can do it, so can our older vets.

As to the whole second-class citizen I think that is a cultural problem and a completely different issue that isn't going to go away no matter what you do with uniforms.

There are vets out there who feel like they should be given 'extra' recognition or that somehow others in CAP don't 'deserve' or haven't 'earned' the right to wear officer insignia to begin with. Frankly, the vast majority of vets never earned the right to wear officer insignia either, so tough. I wear O-4 rank in CAP and have done so while an O-2 and O-3 on AD. My AD Sq/CC (an AD O-5) would tease me sometimes, but he teased me regardless. He had quite a bit of respect for what I did. The better things we do as CAP, the less the people who have AD rank are going to care what we are wearing. They'll know who we are, and what we do, and the majority won't care what we wear. The ones with sticks up their rears may get all bent out of shape, but they tend to get bent out of shape no matter what.

There are those who feel they are treated as a second-class citizen and I tell you that can happen no matter what we wear. Some pilots treat non-pilots like second class citizens. Some ES folks treat non-ES folks that way. Some ground team members do it. Some Cadet Programs members treat anyone who doesn't want to work with cadets for whatever reason that way. Comm guys, commanders, dudes from one wing or specific squadrons. People like to feel they are more equal than others. As long as you get a group of more than about...2 you have a pretty decent chance of someone being treated like a second-class citizen.

To get back closer to the topic: AD does give out 'congratulations you did a decent job at your job and didn't kill anyone' awards. At the end of a duty assignment the  vast majority of people give out some kind of service award. It's roughly tied to your rank in many cases.

An enlisted member of the AF, only in the AF, can earn about 55 ribbons
An officer, who has only been in the AF, can earn about 48 ribbons

Also of note: There is an enlisted-only AF NCO PME Graduate ribbon.

As to ribbon addition/removal: I may send it up at some point but with regards to the command service ribbon vs the badge. I would like us to dump the command service ribbon and use the basic command badge the way the USAF does. All current commanders O-6 and below wear it above the name plate, all former wear it below. No difference for SQ, Gp, or Wg. This would also provide the benefit amongst the O-6 crowd of identifying who is a current Wing or Region CC vs who was one, vs who was one of those high-up NHQ level positions that garnered O-6 for a bit. It would also be 1 less ribbon, and a fair trade I would say. And mirrors the AD USAF which I think is a good thing.

Now back to your regular squabbles.