So why do we have height and weight standards?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Or, maybe the customers appreciate an element of the Air Force, with its reputation for professionalism and safety, coming in to provide light-plane air support to their search operation.

That is a good part of what I was saying, the uniform helps convey what we are, professionals. Part of being a professional is looking the part. Proper wear and appearance of the uniform is massive when talking about being a professional. If you don't look like you would be in the military, like being over weight or having long hair, then you shouldn't be in the uniform. Most civillians don't know what we know, that there are overweight soldiers and airmen. USAF Army Navy and Marines work hard to keep the image of a soldier in the forefront. Overweight personnel in uniform are kept kind of in the back. The ARMY usually keeps those who are trying to get back into standards in the comms room or supply/arms rooms.

I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THIS IS WHAT WE SHOULD DO!!! I am only saying that the military do what they can to keep the image of a proper soldier in the media and forefront of what civilians see so that they can keep the professional image that they want. That is most likely the reason that they say we have to be in some sort of weight and grooming standars to be in the uniform.

[RADIOMAN015]

Or, maybe the customers appreciate an element of the Air Force, with its reputation for professionalism and safety, coming in to provide light-plane air support to their search operation.

That is a good part of what I was saying, the uniform helps convey what we are, professionals. Part of being a professional is looking the part. Proper wear and appearance of the uniform is massive when talking about being a professional.

I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THIS IS WHAT WE SHOULD DO!!! I am only saying that the military do what they can to keep the image of a proper soldier in the media and forefront of what civilians see so that they can keep the professional image that they want. That is most likely the reason that they say we have to be in some sort of weight and grooming standards to be in the uniform.

The golf shirt uniform works very well in many of our "Missions for America", ES.  I know folks that have beards & long hair/small pony tails that in fact are some of the most "competent" people I've ever met on ES missions. Also there's a lot of outstanding volunteers that are overweight who only can wear the CAP type uniforms.   Now if you were to ask me as the PAO who I would put in front of the camera, likely it would be the sharpest senior and cadet in the AF type blue uniform.  HOWEVER, utility uniform type I would prefer to have senior members in Blue BDU's, blue flight suits, and possibly the golf shirt.   Also, IF POSSIBLE, IF ALL the senior members are wearing the corporate white aviator shirt, I would also take that picture.  When you start mixing uniforms, that's when it causes confusion.

It should be interesting to see what the uniform committee comes up with in the near future.  Again I think costs to the membership is a VERY important factor in any uniform decisions.
RM

[RiverAux]

Glass half-empty: CAP wants to set me apart and differentiate me because I am overweight/long-haired/Gene Simmons.

Glass half-full: CAP managed to work around USAF to ensure I could still wear a uniform and gave me a guide to my attire.

Correction - the AIR FORCE wants to set you apart.  I'm sure CAP would be fine with having everyone in the AF style uniform as we were for the vast majority of our history.

[ZigZag911]

I've said it before and am saying it again: seniors should all go to a single uniform, which, practically speaking, means non-USAF style.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am one of those restricted to the CAP rather than AF uniforms...but my point is not personal convenience, but uniformity.

Keep the military uniforms for the cadets.

Design a decent looking service jacket for seniors (corporate) that can be worn with insignia, badges, awards.

Use BBDUs, equivalent flight suit, and golf shirt where appropriate.

Give it a fairly long (5 year? 7 year?) phase in to make it less of a financial burden.

And declare an end to the 'uniform wars'!

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The golf shirt uniform works very well in many of our "Missions for America", ES.  I know folks that have beards & long hair/small pony tails that in fact are some of the most "competent" people I've ever met on ES missions. Also there's a lot of outstanding volunteers that are overweight who only can wear the CAP type uniforms.   Now if you were to ask me as the PAO who I would put in front of the camera, likely it would be the sharpest senior and cadet in the AF type blue uniform.  HOWEVER, utility uniform type I would prefer to have senior members in Blue BDU's, blue flight suits, and possibly the golf shirt.   Also, IF POSSIBLE, IF ALL the senior members are wearing the corporate white aviator shirt, I would also take that picture.  When you start mixing uniforms, that's when it causes confusion.

It should be interesting to see what the uniform committee comes up with in the near future.  Again I think costs to the membership is a VERY important factor in any uniform decisions.
RM

Like I said, We should NOT be pushing those in CAP who are overweight or fuzzy into the back of the units. Instead we should treat everyone the same regardless of uniform.

There is no "uniform war" there are just some who think that we should loose the USAF style uniforms and those who think we should either loose the alternative uniforms, and then there are those who should be gotten rid of because they think that we should not allow personnel who do not meet standards for USAF uniform appearance. I do not see the confusion that some people insist is there about confusion because of different uniforms. Those who know what CAP is, have no problem recognizing us, and those who don't know what CAP is just think we are part of the military, and that is not too far off.

[Flying Pig]

I am not currently a member but I intend to rejoin and I am happy to wear the blue BDU once in a while even though I am within height and weight standards. I think that too many organizations out there are too keen to adopt the woodland pattern and it makes us look like wannabees to our customers in emergency services. The past 3 search and rescue organizations I have been involved with used navy, black, and desert tan battle dress for field ops.

So its more professional to wear desert tan BDU's?  My Departments SAR team wears BDU pants with orange shirts.  No different than CAP wearing orange vests on SARs. 

[DakRadz]

Glass half-empty: CAP wants to set me apart and differentiate me because I am overweight/long-haired/Gene Simmons.

Glass half-full: CAP managed to work around USAF to ensure I could still wear a uniform and gave me a guide to my attire.

Correction - the AIR FORCE wants to set you apart.  I'm sure CAP would be fine with having everyone in the AF style uniform as we were for the vast majority of our history.

Agreed, sir. I was drawing upon the complaints usually seen on CT. People feel that CAP is setting them apart- others realize CAP is helping them out.

[Eclipse]

Are we really going to do this dance, again?  Just use the search function.

The answer is "because the USAF says so..."  read, heed, and move on.

[JokerMafia248]

OK, I get that "them's the rules". I am just saying the rules should be changed. Yes, I get that the Air Force makes the rules. I'd like to think the AF is capable of thinking this through and making an appropriate change.

I know of a senior member, who is training to be a professional pilot, who has been in CAP as a cadet. There are pictures of this member in green cadet BDUs and now that the member is not a cadet the member has to wear blue BDUs, etc. What changed? How was the member an asset to the uniform before but now would be an embarrassment to it?

Myself, as of this morning, I am five pounds away from the limit. I can and will lose those five pounds and be legal to wear the green probably next month. But, I will still have "a gut". I am thinking of wearing a small pillow inside the shirt at the next weigh in just to be a smart-a$$. I will claim it is a survival gear bag...

[JokerMafia248]

Are we really going to do this dance, again?  Just use the search function.

The answer is "because the USAF says so..."  read, heed, and move on.

Sorry, this was my first posting. Is there only one possible answer?

Ed

[Flying Pig]

Yeah, thats pretty much the answer.  Our uniform wear is governed by the Air Force.  We have this multi page discussion about once a month. 

[PHall]

I know of a senior member, who is training to be a professional pilot, who has been in CAP as a cadet. There are pictures of this member in green cadet BDUs and now that the member is not a cadet the member has to wear blue BDUs, etc. What changed? How was the member an asset to the uniform before but now would be an embarrassment to it?

Cadets under the age of 18 do not have to meet weight standards to wear the USAF style uniforms.
But, one of the little things you get on your 18th birthday, along with the right to vote and a few other things, is the requirement to meet weight standards to continue wearing the USAF style uniforms.

And yes, this requirement was mandated by the Air Force.

[SARDOC]

I know of a senior member, who is training to be a professional pilot, who has been in CAP as a cadet. There are pictures of this member in green cadet BDUs and now that the member is not a cadet the member has to wear blue BDUs, etc. What changed? How was the member an asset to the uniform before but now would be an embarrassment to it?

Cadets under the age of 18 do not have to meet weight standards to wear the USAF style uniforms.
But, one of the little things you get on your 18th birthday, along with the right to vote and a few other things, is the requirement to meet weight standards to continue wearing the USAF style uniforms.

And yes, this requirement was mandated by the Air Force.

Cadets who are physically capable are also required to Participate in a Physical Fitness program in an effort to encourage a healthy lifestyles.

[RiverAux]

True, but they still have to meet the height-weight requirements. 

[arBar]

I do love uniforms and take pride in whatever uniform it is, but I would be perfectly happy with some very simple identifier (vest, armband, etc.) in place of the multiple uniform options.  Still, I understand why the different uniforms exist and how they evolved. 

I do like the thought of keeping cadets in the USAF unform and all seniors having the CAP uniform, but I can see alot of unhappy folks if they ever went that way.

I think that the uniform issue is complicated partly because of the following reasons:
1. We have 3 different missions and uniforms reflect the various duties we perform
2. Our dual role as auxiliary vs. corporation
3. Free uniforms from the AF for cadets
4. Weight limits for seniors but not cadets
5. Even the military (esp the AF) changes their uniforms alot


I'm sure there are other reasons as well.  Seems to me that as long as we have a dual nature and diverse mission, there is likely always going to be a multitude of unform options reflecting that. 

With that said, I'm gonna wear whatever is asked, even if I think it looks a little goofy to me.  I have the BBDU, aviator unform, and golf uniform.  Doesn't matter what we wear, we'll still be confused with someone else.

[billford1]

 I've been on more than one AFAM mission where there were four different uniforms on a ground team of four people.

[GroundHawg]

Im a USAF Reservist, I pass height and weight by "taping out" with BMI. I am not small, but I have never failed a PT test in either the Army or Air Force. According to current CAP regs, the uniforms I was issued by the USAF couldnt be worn as I dont meet CAP height and weight. Dumb. 

[Ned]

Im a USAF Reservist, I pass height and weight by "taping out" with BMI. I am not small, but I have never failed a PT test in either the Army or Air Force. According to current CAP regs, the uniforms I was issued by the USAF couldnt be worn as I dont meet CAP height and weight. Dumb. 

Not so dumb, really.

We don't have the education, training, or resources to do the taping used by the AF and the Army.

As a vet, I'm sure you recall that the folks who do the taping have to go to a class and be certified.  And of course the whole taping thing is surrounded by controversy in the armed forces.  They have changed their methods and standards several times, and there is a certain lack of consistency during weigh-ins, depending on who is doing the the taping that day.

Rather than go through that goat-rope, we  chose the easier and more sustainable "add 10% to the chart" method.

Easier all around.  Of course it is a little less accurate than taping, but we avoid all the angst involved in adding a whole new layer of training and certification for local squadron folks as well as the indignity of having a fellow squadron commander measure your neck, waist, etc. while standing around in your undershirt at the meeting.

[FARRIER]

Why couldn't the HSO's take over this duty?

Im a USAF Reservist, I pass height and weight by "taping out" with BMI. I am not small, but I have never failed a PT test in either the Army or Air Force. According to current CAP regs, the uniforms I was issued by the USAF couldnt be worn as I dont meet CAP height and weight. Dumb. 

Not so dumb, really.

We don't have the education, training, or resources to do the taping used by the AF and the Army.

As a vet, I'm sure you recall that the folks who do the taping have to go to a class and be certified.  And of course the whole taping thing is surrounded by controversy in the armed forces.  They have changed their methods and standards several times, and there is a certain lack of consistency during weigh-ins, depending on who is doing the the taping that day.

Rather than go through that goat-rope, we  chose the easier and more sustainable "add 10% to the chart" method.

Easier all around.  Of course it is a little less accurate than taping, but we avoid all the angst involved in adding a whole new layer of training and certification for local squadron folks as well as the indignity of having a fellow squadron commander measure your neck, waist, etc. while standing around in your undershirt at the meeting.

[Ned]

Why couldn't the HSO's take over this duty?

Good question.

I doubt it would work well, however, for the following reasons:

1.  There simply aren't enough HSOs in the system to start with.  Most units have never seen one.

2.  Worse yet, distribution of the existing HSOs is not even.  Some units aren't within 100 miles of an HSO.

3.  The HSO tent is pretty large.  It includes doctors and nurses, of course, but also includes folks like psychologists and optical technicians who probably aren't much help in this area.

4.  And the HSOs would still need to be trained and certified to do tapings.  That kind of leaves us back at square one.