CAP Talk

Operations => Emergency Services & Operations => Topic started by: Eclipse on March 05, 2018, 11:22:35 PM

Title: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Eclipse on March 05, 2018, 11:22:35 PM
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/static/media/cms/CAPP_703_5_Mar_18_693D84E455FEE.pdf

Looks to my eyes like the majority of the changes are reasonable and in line with current expectations
of the position.

Reduces the service time for Master to 18 months, which is a little more then 1/2 what it was before
(and means I can make Master now, which is clearly the most important point).

Removes reference to ECI test and adds updated ESO tests in the LMS.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Holding Pattern on March 05, 2018, 11:54:05 PM
Well, this explains where the arctic blast came from...
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: darkmatter on March 07, 2018, 12:02:41 PM
There's no grandfather clause I don't like that
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: SarDragon on March 07, 2018, 08:12:16 PM
Quote from: darkmatter on March 07, 2018, 12:02:41 PM
There's no grandfather clause I don't like that

Like this:
QuoteSenior members/cadets that have accomplished a rating prior to the release date of this pamphlet will retain their rating. All tasks required for a rating not yet achieved must be completed for the next rating in the specialty track.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Disenchanted on March 08, 2018, 04:55:10 AM
In Attachment 3, a "Disaster Relief Team Member" is a position that is under development.
Does anybody in the know, know what that might look like?
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: darkmatter on March 08, 2018, 11:27:03 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 07, 2018, 08:12:16 PM
Quote from: darkmatter on March 07, 2018, 12:02:41 PM
There's no grandfather clause I don't like that

Like this:
QuoteSenior members/cadets that have accomplished a rating prior to the release date of this pamphlet will retain their rating. All tasks required for a rating not yet achieved must be completed for the next rating in the specialty track.

Does not help me one bit because I'm still working on tech rating and there's again no grandfather clause
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: cnitas on March 08, 2018, 02:11:14 PM
What exactly do you need to be grandfathered? 

They have dropped some of the old dated requirements, and other than adding the e-services/WMIRS items and IS courses (which as ES officer you should know well), there is not a whole lot of difference between the new and old items. 

You still have to have a mission specialty rating, and participate in several exercises and/or missions.  You still need to do a training plan, and be familiar with the relevant regulations, and be able to explain and describe the job.

I do not see a problem, and it seems straight forward and appropriate to me.  If you were 1/2 way through the old Tech rating, and active in ES, you should be well on your way in the revised system.  A meeting with your OJT Mentor should be able to get most things sorted.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Sriracha on March 09, 2018, 04:59:25 PM
Quote from: Disenchanted on March 08, 2018, 04:55:10 AM
In Attachment 3, a "Disaster Relief Team Member" is a position that is under development.
Does anybody in the know, know what that might look like?

It would most likely be similar to GTM right now, but most likely have higher qualifications for medical capabilities and more FEMA classes required. In function, they would probably be a more specialized GTM, so SAR and Disaster Relief could be separated. At least, that's my guess.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Geber on March 09, 2018, 06:08:05 PM
Quote from: Disenchanted on March 08, 2018, 04:55:10 AM
In Attachment 3, a "Disaster Relief Team Member" is a position that is under development.
Does anybody in the know, know what that might look like?

I have no insight into what CAP is planning. I am a member of an American Red Cross disaster action team. Their training requirements are undergoing revision. In the latest draft, entry level qualification, just above trainee, involves these topics:


If I were putting together requirements for CAP, I would include knowledge of the CAP alerting system, General Emergency Services, shelter fundamentals, and physical fitness (perhaps passing, rather than attempting, the current cadet fitness requirement, or for senior members, the Air Force fitness requirement for their age and gender).
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: CAP9907 on March 09, 2018, 07:03:54 PM
Would you propose those same physical standards for anything else, like UDF or GTL? Why for this, since no other op qual requires this standard?


Quote from: Geber on March 09, 2018, 06:08:05 PM
Quote from: Disenchanted on March 08, 2018, 04:55:10 AM
In Attachment 3, a "Disaster Relief Team Member" is a position that is under development.
Does anybody in the know, know what that might look like?

I have no insight into what CAP is planning. I am a member of an American Red Cross disaster action team. Their training requirements are undergoing revision. In the latest draft, entry level qualification, just above trainee, involves these topics:


  • Training about resources for families to help their recovery
  • Casework
  • Even-handed treatment of various kinds of families
  • Shelter fundamentals
  • Psycological first aid
  • Introduction to Red Cross alerting system

If I were putting together requirements for CAP, I would include knowledge of the CAP alerting system, General Emergency Services, shelter fundamentals, and physical fitness (perhaps passing, rather than attempting, the current cadet fitness requirement, or for senior members, the Air Force fitness requirement for their age and gender).
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Geber on March 09, 2018, 08:00:35 PM
Quote from: CAP9907 on March 09, 2018, 07:03:54 PM
Would you propose those same physical standards for anything else, like UDF or GTL? Why for this, since no other op qual requires this standard?

As you may know, there is a list of national MOUs at  https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/cap-national-hq/general-counsel/national-mous-1665/ (https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/cap-national-hq/general-counsel/national-mous-1665/). The two organizations that seem most disaster-related are the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army. The Salvation Army MOU is mostly about transporting people and things by air. The Red Cross MOU does mention ground activities.

Some kinds of aid, such as sheltering and feeding, require the CAP member to receive training from the Red Cross. If this training were done extensively and well in advance, as with a specialty qualification, the member would be well on the way to being qualified as a Red Cross Disaster Action Team (DAT) member, and might end up joining Red Cross and responding with them rather than CAP.

Some kinds of assistance by CAP for which Red Cross members don't receive any special training, and for which some of them may not be well prepared, are (from the MOU) "manual labor (e.g. filling sand bags for flood control), radio communications, and ground teams (typically used in search and rescue (SAR) missions)". We already have specialties for communications and SAR. What neither organization has at present is a qualification that includes evaluating the member's ability to perform manual labor, beyond the walking required for a ground team.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Fubar on March 09, 2018, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: Geber on March 09, 2018, 08:00:35 PMSome kinds of aid, such as sheltering and feeding, require the CAP member to receive training from the Red Cross. If this training were done extensively and well in advance, as with a specialty qualification, the member would be well on the way to being qualified as a Red Cross Disaster Action Team (DAT) member, and might end up joining Red Cross and responding with them rather than CAP.

I don't think there's any "might" about it as unless you're air crew, there likely won't be an opportunity to respond other than with the ARC.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Holding Pattern on March 09, 2018, 10:57:50 PM
Quote from: Fubar on March 09, 2018, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: Geber on March 09, 2018, 08:00:35 PMSome kinds of aid, such as sheltering and feeding, require the CAP member to receive training from the Red Cross. If this training were done extensively and well in advance, as with a specialty qualification, the member would be well on the way to being qualified as a Red Cross Disaster Action Team (DAT) member, and might end up joining Red Cross and responding with them rather than CAP.

I don't think there's any "might" about it as unless you're air crew, there likely won't be an opportunity to respond other than with the ARC.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Katrina was and will be the last time we see a ground team effort on any major scale. We never adapted, we got left behind. I look forward to being proven wrong.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: etodd on March 10, 2018, 04:44:32 AM
Quote from: Mordecai on March 09, 2018, 10:57:50 PM

I have a sneaking suspicion that Katrina was and will be the last time we see a ground team effort on any major scale. We never adapted, we got left behind. I look forward to being proven wrong.

But with Katrina we excelled in the Airborne Photography arena. Noticed by many, and we have been tasked more and more ever since. FEMA and others love what we do.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: PHall on March 10, 2018, 02:53:23 PM
Quote from: etodd on March 10, 2018, 04:44:32 AM
Quote from: Mordecai on March 09, 2018, 10:57:50 PM

I have a sneaking suspicion that Katrina was and will be the last time we see a ground team effort on any major scale. We never adapted, we got left behind. I look forward to being proven wrong.

But with Katrina we excelled in the Airborne Photography arena. Noticed by many, and we have been tasked more and more ever since. FEMA and others love what we do.

Until they get their own drones and they don't need us anymore...
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: CAPLTC on March 11, 2018, 08:47:26 PM
Quote from: etodd on March 10, 2018, 04:44:32 AM
But with Katrina we excelled in the Airborne Photography arena. Noticed by many, and we have been tasked more and more ever since. FEMA and others love what we do.

That is absolutely true.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Ed Bos on March 17, 2018, 12:46:02 PM
Quote from: Disenchanted on March 08, 2018, 04:55:10 AM
In Attachment 3, a "Disaster Relief Team Member" is a position that is under development.
Does anybody in the know, know what that might look like?

I started workshopping that with Mr. Desmarais and left it in when the draft for this pamphlet was written.

As conceived, it would be an add-on for GTM... You'd have to have a Ground Team Member qualification first, and then some additional training for disaster relief work. Some ideas included:

And for Team Leaders:

The concept was that Search and Rescue Ground Teams already have training in navigating, communicating, and operating in the field.

Quote from: Geber on March 09, 2018, 06:08:05 PM
....physical fitness...

I hadn't considered this, but I think it's better to leave the IC, OSC, and team leader in charge of determining who's fit to head out the door. I believe a little discretion left in the hands of our leaders in the field is good.

Speaking of which, none of the concept is meant to prevent an IC from asking any 101-Card-Carrying member from joining a sandbag-filling operation, even if they don't have a special "disaster relief" qualification. It's just meant to build a standard training set for our people. This way, a Planning Section can know what these personnel already know, without having to have a lot of extra discussion after we're already responding to an event.

Also, the project is stalled, in case anyone wants to pick it up and run with it.

Cheers!
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: beachdoc on March 17, 2018, 02:31:17 PM
Regarding a post by Mordeci:

"I have a sneaking suspicion that Katrina was and will be the last time we see a ground team effort on any major scale. We never adapted, we got left behind. I look forward to being proven wrong."

Sorry, don't know how to do embedded quotes.

I was a member of the NC-1 DMAT and NMRT-E for 14 years.  I joined because I wanted to perform that disaster function.  Our team had a number of CAP members who joined for that reason as well.  FEMA teams are highly skilled professionals who do what they do on the teams in daily life, for the most part.  They are very well organized, were capable of self-sufficient deployments, other than fuel for the most part.  Unfortunately, we had poor medical logistic support, which is why I left the organization.

IMO rather than try to hammer a "square" CAP into a "round" disaster response hole, i.e. post-disaster search and rescue (currently done by fire and Urban Search and Rescue) teams that are specifically trained and routinely drill and as importantly equipped and have a logistic trail we need to do what we "do".

I submit if someone wants to be involved in post-hurricane USAR or medical response, then join a team and be trained to do so.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Eclipse on March 17, 2018, 03:35:17 PM
Quote from: Ed Bos on March 17, 2018, 12:46:02 PM
Speaking of which, none of the concept is meant to prevent an IC from asking any 101-Card-Carrying member from joining a sandbag-filling operation, even if they don't have a special "disaster relief" qualification.

Then it was / is doomed before it started.  Knowing "there's no time for backup, shoulder roll in..." is what keeps a lot
of edge players from getting appropriate training, and infuriates those who spend the time and money to be properly prepared.

ES Dayplayers® cause far more trouble then they are worth, become team liabilities, are detrimental to
good order and discipline, and ultimately defeat the purpose intended. (Anecdotal "success" and media mentions don't refute this.)

CAP needs to draft and adopt DR doctrine which is based on mission (defined), customers (identified), agencies supported (identified),
and real-world capabilities (defined, identified, and mandated with ramifications), and move away from flipping through training
menus of other agencies which may or may not be appropriate, with the hope "somebody will call us".

And again, if anyone thinks the ARC, Salvation Army, or similar ES/DR "machines" want or need CAP's help, you can disavow that
notion once and finally.   They don't need or want help from anyone with a uniform and separate command structure, they want
bodies in their golf shirts.  They are happy to gain access to CAP rosters for recruiting and donations, but don't need CAP's help.
They are always polite, professional, and respectful, but ultimately the truth comes out. BTDT.

And like everything else that needs to be fixed, if you start today, you're looking at 5+ years before changes are mandated, adopted,
and there is any internal proficiency.

"ES Dayplayers®" is a registered trademark of eClipseco Mining and Heavy Machinery Consortium.  All Rights Reserved.
Let eClipseco service all of your rhetoric and propaganda needs!
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Eclipse on March 17, 2018, 03:39:41 PM
Quote from: Mordecai on March 09, 2018, 10:57:50 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Katrina was and will be the last time we see a ground team effort on any major scale. We never adapted, we got left behind. I look forward to being proven wrong.

I've been involved in other, similar, ground responses since then, but they were Regional in scope and personnel.
Which should be the widest out-call for help in most incidents.

The fact of the matter is that CAP, as an organization, has no grasp or capability in regards to the logistics
of deploying people across the country, especially volunteers.  It either waits far too long to deploy,
or deploys people into a DA that has austere resources at best, and where there may be no adequate food,
shelter, and hygiene resources, assuming "someone" will figure it out when they get there.

Many times CAP members wind up sleeping in tents, hangar floors, school rooms, or even their
cars, which paid professionals are in local hotels, on per diem, while CAP people are digging
into their last MRE, calculating how much vacation time they are burning sitting in flooded
city waiting for taskings that never come, or take hours to figure out. (Weeks after the incident).

With that said, it's not supposed to be necessary, CAP ES response is supposed to be local.
Leaving out those who are personally affected by a given incident, any time you start looking for
CAP resources that are more then a few hours drive away, you've identified an area where the wings
and regions have failed to properly man and equip
their own people.

That comes right back to the broken record of people, which is the same recruiting and retention
problem come full circle, and is the real problem in CAP, and has been for the last 20 years.
The organization is simply undermanned by at least 2/3rds to even remotely address the mission
mandates.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: RiverAux on March 17, 2018, 04:54:58 PM
Quoteany time you start looking for CAP resources that are more then a few hours drive away, you've identified an area where the wings
and regions have failed to properly man and equip their own people.

I think that on most DR-related issues we're on the same page, but I wouldn't go that far.  Louisiana and Mississippi Wings could not have handled Katrina taskings with their own personnel even with Wings that were twice as big.  I will say that if we had 2-3 times more ES qualified personnel than we do now (which I figure is what we would need to really be able to promise that adequate crews would be available for all air,ground, and base taskings for a 3-5 day mission) that the need for drawing resources from far away would be much reduced.

QuoteCAP ES response is supposed to be local.
You couldn't be more wrong.  I refer you to the purposes of CAP found in US Code Title 35 Section 40302
QuoteThe purposes of the corporation are as follows:
(1) To provide an organization to—
(A) encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy; and
(B) encourage and develop by example the voluntary contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.
(2) To provide aviation education and training especially to its senior and cadet members.
(3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.
(4) To provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national emergencies.
(5) To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its noncombat programs and missions.
Title: Re: CAPP 70-3 Emergency Services Officer Specialty Track Study Guide - March 2018
Post by: Eclipse on March 17, 2018, 05:52:50 PM
That's "national" in the general sense, in that CAP is a "national" organization,
not a mandate to be able to deploy people from AKWG to PRWG.

And if it's really a mandate, then CAP hasn't complied within the membership of anyone
involved today, if ever.

The airplanes will always be an issue because they are a hard asset issued and deployed
as much for political and convenience reasons as mission support, and by their nature the
crew in it is transported to the DA, but the myriad people needed, not to mention advanced
Logisitcs support simply don't exist.