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'rents: Family Involvement

Started by MIKE, August 17, 2007, 12:06:39 AM

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afgeo4

How do you guys feel about a husband being group CC and wife being the subordinate squadron CC?


Families are a big part of CAP membership and in my honest opinion, family members should be kept out of each other's chain of command whenever possible. That having been said, it often falls to a pair of parents to start a squadron or keep one going. I firmly believe that strong supervision by higher command is needed in such cases. Without such supervision and monitoring, the members may end up acting inappropriately without even knowing about it. Remember, it's hard to keep redrawing lines between people all day long.
GEORGE LURYE

mikeylikey

^  How do you feel about a husband being Group Commander and his wife being Deputy Group Commander or Chief of Staff.  Then take that same husband and wife team and they promote all of their relatives who are in the group to group positions.  Then take the same couple and have them promote their work associates who happen to be CAP members to SQD Commanders.  Their reasoning.....they know how to work with their relatives and associates best. 

Can't beat PAWG......but I am guessing this type of stuff happens in every wing.
What's up monkeys?

jimmydeanno

Remember the contest NJ had to come up with a new state motto...

"New Jersey, it's not as bad as it smells..."

err...wrong one...I meant....

"New Jersey, just another relative on the payroll."

Relatives look out for their own, even if they say they don't.  Keeping the family together is usually more important than CAP - I see it all the time, Dad Sq CC, Son C/CC, MOM DCC.  Tell me that doesn't look suspicious...
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

mikeylikey

^  Very suspicious!

Actually makes me sick.  I also love it when the Cadet Commander runs off to mom and dad to "tell" on other cadets or the "bad" Officer who failed them on their Mitchell.  Am I bitter......sure I am.   
What's up monkeys?

Skyray

The husband wife teams don't bother me nearly as much as the husband girlfriend teams with the wife left home.  Just my impression, but it seems to happen around here mostly in the Wing Commander and up zone.
Doug Johnson - Miami

Always Active-Sometimes a Member

SeattleSarge

I think this kind of favoritism is universal in over-involved parents.  After eight years in Boy Scout leadership, I've got a bunch of stories of Asst Scoutmasters advancing their little angels first.

We had a denied Eagle Scout candidate that almost cost our troop a lawsuit.

It seems to be an issue locally with older cadets/parents that want to get academy appointments.

-SeattleSarge
Ronald G. Kruml, TSgt, CAP
Public Affairs - Mission Aircrewman
Seattle Composite Squadron PCR-WA-018
http://www.capseattlesquadron.org

Walkman

I was impressed last week when the son of our DCC, a 2nd LT, came up to her and saluted, addressing her as "Lt. Christensen" before asking a question.

Thanks for this thread. As a new father/son combo in CAP (and 4 more younger sons who are looking up to him) this is good stuff for me to remember. I have noticed that I want him to be as Hoo-Ah (is that how you spell it) and driven as I am, but he's a more laid back kid. I'm gonna' back off a bit. Plus I'm  going into the PAO track as opposed to CP, so we won't have as much direct interaction. 

jimmydeanno

Quote...is that how you spell it

Depends on what you're trying to say.  There is; HUA, HOO-RAH, HOO-YAH.  They're usually branch specific, like "HUA" from what I understand means "Heard, Understood and Acknowleged."

Army:
DI: "Tie that swiss seat like this. HUA?"
SOLDIER: "HUA"

Air Force:
Commander: "Our unit just earned the MOU!"
Troops: "HOO-RAH!"

Navy:
I'm pretty sure HOO-YAH is there's, but can't say for certain...
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Stonewall

Quote...is that how you spell it

Quote
Hooah   (hü-ä or who-ah)
U.S. Military Slang.

Referring to, or meaning anything and everything except "no." Generally used when at a loss for words. Also:

Good copy, solid copy, roger, good or great; message received, understood.
Glad to meet you, welcome.
I do not know, but will check on it, I haven't the vaguest idea.
I am not listening.
That is enough of your drivel--sit down.
Stop sniveling.
You've got to be kidding.
Yes.
Thank you.
Go to the next slide.
You have taken the correct action.
I don't know what that means, but am too embarrassed to ask for clarification.
That is really neat, I want one too.
Amen.
Serving since 1987.

Walkman

Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 22, 2007, 10:19:09 PM
There is; HUA, HOO-RAH, HOO-YAH.

Not to cause drift, but...

Isn't there a Boo-Yah, too? Marines?

MIKE

Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 22, 2007, 10:19:09 PM
There is; HUA, HOO-RAH, HOO-YAH.

Do not use any of these.  HUA does not really mean Heard, Understood, Acknowledged... It means Head Up ...  Hooya is for Navy SEALs... and Hoorah is just dumb.

Quote from: Walkman on August 22, 2007, 10:31:42 PM
Isn't there a Boo-Yah, too? Marines?

Oorah.  Do not use this also.

Back to topic.
Mike Johnston

mikeylikey

Quote from: SeattleSarge on August 22, 2007, 09:57:03 PM
It seems to be an issue locally with older cadets/parents that want to get academy appointments.

-SeattleSarge

I have seen that as well.  You would not believe how fast an appointment can be lost or never pushed through when a military Officer writes a letter to the appointing chair.  Have I done that before?  Maybe. 
What's up monkeys?

ELTHunter

I've had several parents of cadets join our unit and become involved with the cadet program.  I can't remember any problems coming from this that I observed.  I did have fears originally that it would be a problem but never was.  Maybe I've been lucky.

My son will be 12 in a year and wants to join.  Hopefully, I can be an objective Deputy Commander for Cadets when he does.  I believe I have been impartial as his Scout leader.  Both organizations have regulations and criteria for advancement, he either meets them or he doesn't, it's pretty black and white.  After serving as DCOC in the squadron and ES Officer on Group staff, I'd be happy to turn over the DCOC position to someone else and just help out if needed.  However, I haven't spent 9 years working with other peoples kids and taking some time away from mine to stop participating when my son finally can join.

The thing that has been a bigger problem for me is that I had/have several groups of siblings in the unit at one time.  I've found that trying to establish and maintain military order and discipline among siblings to be harder than with parent/child relationships.  Especially when one sibling is in the COC above the others.  I'm still struggling with that.  I've currently got a cadet that has a real chance at an appointment to the AFA.  One of the biggest challenges of developing his leadership ability is trying to get him to think of his siblings as just cadets and not brothers/sisters.  Younger ones are used to ignoring him as an authority figure, he's used to telling them to do something and then letting Mom and Dad enforce the rules.

Just as an aside, having family members in the same Guard unit is pretty common, at least in the South.
Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer

ZigZag911

Nepotism is simply another form of cronyism, but magnified because of family relationships.

People need to be honest with themselves -- it is difficult separating  CAP officer/CC/DCC role from that of parent -- but to be fair to all, that's what needs to happen.

Likewise, the cadet needs to recognize that Mom or Dad is "Captain Whomever" at the unit, not mommy or daddy!

Most youth organizations encounter the same problem -- leadership is hard to find.

As for adult couples, they either need to look on the CAP relationship as a 'business' type relationship, or else serve in different units.

floridacyclist

Amen to that. Of course there may be problems when the nearest other unit is 50 miles away.
Gene Floyd, Capt CAP
Wearer of many hats, master of none (but senior-rated in two)
www.tallahasseecap.org
www.rideforfatherhood.org

JaL5597

Quote from: floridacyclist on August 23, 2007, 03:07:29 AM
Amen to that. Of course there may be problems when the nearest other unit is 50 miles away.

Other meeting nights etc could also cause issues. 

These are wonderful thoughts but I can see a point where trying to avoid potiental appearances of impropriety could cause stress on the homefront.  Diffrent meeting nights, diffrent activity schedules, the costs associated with going to multiple units.  When it comes down to it and there are diffrent activites which squadron benefits which is going to lose out? 

I have seen the whole favoritism thing happen, I am lucky I have not had to deal with it in the units I have been a member of.  When its gotten out of hand its something that you can see from a distance and man it can get ugly.

I am not sure there really is a good answer when it comes to relatives in the program. 

Now I do have a question.  Before parents applications are accepted are they put before a membership review?  Okay I can't think if the right term right now.  And are they counsled before they join as to what is expected out of them in regards to conduct towards their cadets? 

I don't know the right or wrong answers when it comes to the parents question.  I am not involved in the recruiting process and am just curious from following this discussion.

ZigZag911

The Lieutenant makes an excellent point about addressing the issue/potential problem upfront, before forms are signed or checks cashed.

As a matter of fact, some of these issues (nepotism, cronyism, conduct becoming an officer, limits on use of alcohol/tobacco in presence of cadets) should probably become part of the PD program, at least Level 1 & SLS.

jimmydeanno

Quote from: ELTHunter on August 23, 2007, 01:03:32 AM
Both organizations have regulations and criteria for advancement, he either meets them or he doesn't, it's pretty black and white. 

Ahhh, but it isn't really all that "black and white."  There are the "check boxes" like the tests and PT, TIG, etc.  But then there is that "posess maturity comensurate with the grade" thing that so often gets "ignored" frequently when mom and dad are the DCC. (Not saying you in this case...) 

So how does a parent judge their own childs maturity and responsibility level in an objective manner?  Sometimes the parents are TOO hard in their judging and some just don't judge at all and leave the checkboxes to do the work...
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

floridacyclist

Two thoughts...

1) Do not ever put yourself in a position of judging your own child. When Lt Floyd has to make a decision regarding C/CMSgt Davidson or C/MSgt Floyd, she defers it to the Squadron Commander and makes sure that everyone knows that she did that. At the same time, they have all always had to travel to another squadron for ES signoffs because I refuse to sign on an SQTR for a relative except for the most mundane and verifiable items (ICS200 etc)

2) We address the parent-child issue at the Membership Review Board and discuss it thoroughly.

Also, when we appointed a cadet parent as Leadership Officer. I was very blunt that I had concerns about possible favoritism and appearances and made sure that not only did he (and everyone else on staff) understand my conderns, but that we all agreed on a proactive approach to dealing with them. He would not have been my first choice except for his strong leadership skills, Drill and ceremony experience (former ROTC color guard himself), willingness to admit that there were potential parent/child issues,  Lt Floyd being unable to take the cadets to the Color Guard Academy after the change of dates and therefore going to miss the entire class on how to coach a color guard and perhaps most importantly he was the only feasible volunteer.

It also helps that we now have a very strong CO who would bust our chops if we got out of line.
Gene Floyd, Capt CAP
Wearer of many hats, master of none (but senior-rated in two)
www.tallahasseecap.org
www.rideforfatherhood.org

mikeylikey

^  Good points.  Removing oneself from the appearance of impropriety is a very good thing.
What's up monkeys?