Emergency Service patch

[Short Field]

It is hard for people to take you serious when ou have a Disney character patch on your uniform. 

Good thing the Germans and the Japanese didn't take us seriously in WWII.  From the National Museum of the USAF:

The Insignia Art of Walt Disney Productions During World War II

"The insignia meant a lot to the men who were fighting ... I had to do it ... I owed it to them." 
- Walt Disney, 1901-1966

Walt Disney Productions created approximately 1,200 designs during World War II for both American and Allied military units. Designs were also created for other organizations such as civil defense and war industries. All of this work was done by the studio free-of-charge as a donation to the war effort.

[Strick]

That stuff was fine for that time.............  Come on ........ disney characters on a woodland camo uniform.   Thanks for the histroy lesson on the patches........  Those patches were worn by air crews not on regular G.I uniforms in ground combat.

[Hawk200]

That stuff was fine for that time.............  Come on ........ disney characters on a woodland camo uniform.   Thanks for the histroy lesson on the patches........  Those patches were worn by air crews not on regular G.I uniforms in ground combat.

Our original turned present Pluto patch was worn on our ground uniforms, too. Wasn't limited to aircrews. And Woodland camo was a long way off when it first came out. Back then insignia was brightly colored. The concept of subdued insignia didn't really take until the Vietnam era. For us, it's never happened.

Now the military didn't wear such patches on their ground uniforms. Most ground based uniform insignia have a specific heraldry to them. Disney related characters weren't utilized by the RM on fatigues for the most part.

[Short Field]

And CAP has Ground Combat units manned with Warriors???

[Strick]

And CAP has Ground Combat units manned with Warriors???

Warriors Yes, Ground combat no...  I dont dislike the patch I just think it looks silly on the BDU and that just my thought.   I also think ranger tabs and other CAP patches look goofy but I dont knock people for attending the activity and earning the privlige to wear the article.  I just think we should clean up our uniform

[D2SK]

The ES patch is a CAP merit badge.  Most CAP soccer moms love them.  I do not wear the merit badge or the jiffy lube patch.

[RADIOMAN015]

That stuff was fine for that time.............  Come on ........ disney characters on a woodland camo uniform.   Thanks for the histroy lesson on the patches........  Those patches were worn by air crews not on regular G.I uniforms in ground combat.

Our original turned present Pluto patch was worn on our ground uniforms, too. Wasn't limited to aircrews. And Woodland camo was a long way off when it first came out. Back then insignia was brightly colored. The concept of subdued insignia didn't really take until the Vietnam era. For us, it's never happened.

Now the military didn't wear such patches on their ground uniforms. Most ground based uniform insignia have a specific heraldry to them. Disney related characters weren't utilized by the RM on fatigues for the most part.

Very true, and of course all the military "wanna bees" that are wearing the BDU's etc really don't want to show easy differentiation between CAP & the actual military.

I frankly think this should be a mandatory wear item on all BDU/flight suit  type uniforms.  It allows a VERY easily seen distinction between a CAP member and a "real" military member.  Last time I looked at our mission, we weren't invading countries & communities, so having a more brightly colored patch on the uniform is a great & meets our current motto of "Citizens Serving Above, & Beyond
RM     

[Hawk200]

Warriors Yes, Ground combat no...  I dont dislike the patch I just think it looks silly on the BDU and that just my thought.

I'd be a little interested in your definition of "warrior". CAP today doesn't really fit the definition.

I would agree that our ES patches are a little loud on the BDU.

I also think ranger tabs and other CAP patches look goofy but I dont knock people for attending the activity and earning the privlige to wear the article.  I just think we should clean up our uniform

This is where I'm a little amused. The old ES patch (T-34 patch) wasn't huge, but it was a good sized splash of color on BDU's.

The original new (meaning not the ones from the '50s and '60s) was almost four inches in size. I think the "new new" one is around three.

Now those patches are large in relation to the Hawk tabs, which near as I can tell are all about half inch high, and about three inches wide. Seems like smaller insignia would look "cleaner" than large stuff. Maybe it's a concept to consider. Probably wouldn't fly, but we could market those as "subtle but distinctly different" on a utility uniform to the Air Force. Personally, I'd rather sew something small, so less time adding things to the uniform.

A lot of people think that we should replace the ES patch with something else. A "General ES" badge seems to be the general concensus. Small tabs would certainly be in the same spirit.

And no, I haven't been to Hawk, and don't have any of their awards.

[capchiro]

I have to agree with radioman.  We aren't the military and have no need for subdued anything.  We need to be seen in the field and don't need camoflauge.  And we wouldn't lose all of the cadets.  We have a good program and it's not about the BDU's.  If I had my way, we would all wear BBDU's and keep the colorful patches to make us uniform and singular from any other group.  We should be proud of CAP and have our own uniform and patches and not be second rate military.  I think this would get rid of a lot of our "angst".  And yes, I used to be Real Military myself.  I wore that uniform with pride and I wear our uniform with as much pride.  It's a different outfit and should have a different uniform..  JMHO, as usual.. 

[Hawk200]

Very true, and of course all the military "wanna bees" that are wearing the BDU's etc really don't want to show easy differentiation between CAP & the actual military.

Personally, I resent your ignorant implication that I'm a "wannabe". My BDUs were all issued to me by the military, I just put CAP insignia on them. It's idiotic of you to expect me to purchase Blue BDUs because you dislike military uniforms.

I frankly think this should be a mandatory wear item on all BDU/flight suit  type uniforms.  It allows a VERY easily seen distinction between a CAP member and a "real" military member.  Last time I looked at our mission, we weren't invading countries & communities, so having a more brightly colored patch on the uniform is a great & meets our current motto of "Citizens Serving Above, & Beyond
RM

All right, put your money where your mouth is, and cough up the money for every member to be issued it. Keep in mind that you will have to continue to do so for the duration of CAP's existance, or the duration of the patch, whichever ends first.

When it comes to the difference between CAP and military, the only people that don't know the difference are either ignorant or blind. And when it comes to real military members, they're real or they're not, no quotes apply.

That argument of "we're not invading countries" is old, tired, and useless. You ought to find an organization that doesn't wear them, but then again, you wouldn't have anything to complain about.

[Hawk200]

I have to agree with radioman.  We aren't the military and have no need for subdued anything.  We need to be seen in the field and don't need camoflauge.  And we wouldn't lose all of the cadets.

Two words: ORANGE VEST. When you wear one, you can be seen. I guess you forgot the part where they're mandatory.

We have a good program and it's not about the BDU's.

It's not to all senior members, but it is to a lot of cadets. Might want to think about that.

If I had my way, we would all wear BBDU's and keep the colorful patches to make us uniform and singular from any other group.

Yeah, instead of looking military, we'll all look like police. You're just trading one look for another. That's a failed justification.

We should be proud of CAP and have our own uniform and patches and not be second rate military.  I think this would get rid of a lot of our "angst".  And yes, I used to be Real Military myself.  I wore that uniform with pride and I wear our uniform with as much pride.  It's a different outfit and should have a different uniform..  JMHO, as usual..

CAP members are not "second rate military". They're not military at all. Period. If that's what you think, that's you're own feelings. The Air Force seems to think we're useful at times, even though we've had problems because of stupid people.

If you want to change the uniform, then obviously you lack pride in it for some reason.

There are other organizations that do SAR that don't wear military uniforms, look into them.

[Strick]

That stuff was fine for that time.............  Come on ........ disney characters on a woodland camo uniform.   Thanks for the histroy lesson on the patches........  Those patches were worn by air crews not on regular G.I uniforms in ground combat.

Our original turned present Pluto patch was worn on our ground uniforms, too. Wasn't limited to aircrews. And Woodland camo was a long way off when it first came out. Back then insignia was brightly colored. The concept of subdued insignia didn't really take until the Vietnam era. For us, it's never happened.

Now the military didn't wear such patches on their ground uniforms. Most ground based uniform insignia have a specific heraldry to them. Disney related characters weren't utilized by the RM on fatigues for the most part.

Very true, and of course all the military "wanna bees" that are wearing the BDU's etc really don't want to show easy differentiation between CAP & the actual military.

I frankly think this should be a mandatory wear item on all BDU/flight suit  type uniforms.  It allows a VERY easily seen distinction between a CAP member and a "real" military member.  Last time I looked at our mission, we weren't invading countries & communities, so having a more brightly colored patch on the uniform is a great & meets our current motto of "Citizens Serving Above, & Beyond
RM   

We have the blue tapes to distingush us from RM, I have seen it all from seniors wearing subdued branch tapes to metal grade .  They go out of the way to look diffrent from everbody else in CAP.  I fly so I dont wear BDU'S, I have before and I dont mind the blue tapes.   Radioman talks about wannabees, they are in every orginization including the military(the supply guy who thinks he is special forces )  When I talk about WARRIORS, I mean those in this orginization who take the lead and push on to accomplish the mision. 
I not a fan of disney....too bad are ES patch could not have sponge bob

[wuzafuzz]

Wow, this thread went sideways in a hurry.

For what it's worth, I don't recall seeing anyone suggest a toned-down ES insignia should actually be subdued.  Nor do I recall anyone saying they want to look more like the real military.  There was discussion about presenting a professional appearance.  That does not make anyone a "wannabe," a "has-been," or a poser. 

I would like to see a new ES the same as most other badges, no more no less.

[davedove]

Another less patches, or less colorful patches argument arises.

What gets me is that when the fashion climate changes and CAP becomes more subdued, but the other services have swung back to more colorful, the same people will then be arguing "Why do we have all these subdued patches?  Who are we hiding from?  Why don't we have the full-color patches like everyone else?"

Sometimes I like wearing the patches and sometimes I don't.  They're "optional" so if you don't like them, don't wear them.  I have two sets of field clothes, one set has all the patches, the other is stripped down.  I call the one with patches my "NASCAR" uniform.

[Hawk200]

What gets me is that when the fashion climate changes and CAP becomes more subdued, but the other services have swung back to more colorful, the same people will then be arguing "Why do we have all these subdued patches?  Who are we hiding from?  Why don't we have the full-color patches like everyone else?"

For some it's a desire to be exactly like the Air Force which causes the swing, which we can't really be. For the most part, CAP patches have been larger and/or more colorful than AF patches on in the same locations on equivalent uniforms.

Sometimes I like wearing the patches and sometimes I don't.  They're "optional" so if you don't like them, don't wear them.  I have two sets of field clothes, one set has all the patches, the other is stripped down.  I call the one with patches my "NASCAR" uniform.

I've gone on the lighter side when it comes to insignia anymore. My "fully configured" uniform has tapes, flag, rank, and a couple badges (which are subdued military ones, so most people don't even notice them). My "light" uniform has tapes, rank, and flag. I just don't feel like putting anything else on anymore.

If we get a unit patch, I may put that on for the sake of unit comraderie. But it will depend on what it looks like.

[arajca]

To continue off topic...

I am slowly reworking my proposal from many moons ago, with a few changes. I am planning to include an air crew badge series as well.

Attached is a table showing how I associated the current ES qualifications with the respective badges. General guidelines I used:
1. Increased based on level of responsibility in ICS (LSC has more responsibility than MRO).
2. Scanner & HRO are entry level only. Scanner progresses to Observer. ARCHER and related will have full progression based on experience/years of service/mission participation.
3. Some will not have a badge.

These are not set in stone, but I think I got it right. Feel free to try to persuade me otherwise, if you want.

Badge designs will be in another post.

[DC]

That's pretty much exactly what I had in mind, with the exception of UDFT members. IMHO, that isn't a MB staff position, I would lump them in with the Ground Team tier somehow instead.

Other than that,  :clap:.

[Strick]

What the heck dude, I dont get a scuba badge or dolphins for water survival
All joking aside, the table looks good and makes sense.   Now what would the badge look like?l

[arajca]

That's pretty much exactly what I had in mind, with the exception of UDFT members. IMHO, that isn't a MB staff position, I would lump them in with the Ground Team tier somehow instead.

Other than that,  :clap:.

I actually had a UDF badge designed - same GT except it had UDF in the middle. Only one level.

[arajca]

How's about this...