Silver Medal of Valor

[Eclipse]

There is a new rule out there folks, only medals awarded for "conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity" in action against an armed enemy, such valor being "above and beyond the call of duty are allowed to be awarded, displayed or worn around the neck.  All others, including those for sports, can no longer be worn around the neck.

In the military, or the "real world"?  Because both the Olympics and my kids T-Ball team will both have something to say about that.

[jimmydeanno]

^That's his point...

[Flying Pig]

OK Im lost???

What is this about?  My kids soccer team cant give medals placed around their necks?  Tell me I missed the punch line.  Or was that the punch line?  You funny guy G.I.!

[lordmonar]

Okay....back to the regularly scheduled program.

1.  In order to make the SMV stand out during formal functions it is suggested that it be chainged from a ribbon (service dress) and mini-medal (mess dress) to a neck type decoration.

2.  This neck decoration would only be worn at FORMAL occassions.  Occasions that would require wearing the mess dress or during formal ceremonies...such as SMV prentations.  The neck decoration would not be worn during normal duty time.  For normal wear a ribbon would be worn on the left breast.

3.  It has been suggested the decoration be of a red ribbon with the SMV ribbon as a central point that the medal would be suspended from.

-------that is the proposal-----nothing else is being asked or suggested.

My personal opinion is:

A.  Not really needed....but I have no major hang ups if it were to be approved.

B.  If approved I don't like the red ribbon.  It should be the same ribbon that the SMV uses now.

Nothing else.

[Stonewall]

OK Im lost???

What is this about?  My kids soccer team cant give medals placed around their necks?  Tell me I missed the punch line.  Or was that the punch line?  You funny guy G.I.!

Yes, you got it brother.

Several folks are arguing that someone, anyone, maybe even me, are trying to make the SMV the same as the MOH.  Heck, as far as I'm concerned, people have created their own arguments against no one but themselves, because no one, except for the second poster (Gunner C) mentioned the MOH.

By adding a neck ribbon (or whatever it's called), regardless of color, some folks argue that we are copycatting the MOH, as if the only medal in the world allowed to be worn/presented around the neck is the MOH.

ONCE AGAIN, NO ONE IS MAKING AN ATTEMPT TO COMPARE THE SMV TO THE MOH, EXCEPT THOSE CREATING AN UNNECESSARY DEFENSIVE STANCE.

Perhaps this should have been made a poll with only two options.

1. Do you think the SMV should be presented around the neck and under very specific guidelines, be worn around the neck for special events.

or

2.  No, keep it the way it is.

Note:  This has nothing to do with the MOH.

[M.S.]

Yes medals around the neck just for mess dress sounds good.  Let's also institute colorful SMV sashes for service dress and full size SMV medals on short sleeve blues and intricate fourrageres for BDU's.  Each of those tradition ways of displaying an award has just as much connection to the CAP Silver Medal of Valor as does wearing it around the neck and each of those has just as much connection to the way CAP wears its awards as a collar medal.   They're all done commonly around the world in militaries or civilian organizations and governmental agencies --- this is not something new.

I vote we authorize special sashes, fourrageres and full-size medals for SMV recipients.  It's a prestigious and rare award and we should make a new, distinctive way to display it on CAP uniforms because it's not distinctive enough yet. 

The exact same argument you're making for neck medals applies just as much to sashes, fourrageres or a full size medal on short sleeve blues shirts.  So what do you think about that?  I think my suggestion makes it even MORE distinctive and important looking.

[Stonewall]

Don't be angry.  It's just a discussion; a debate even.  It isn't going to happen and no one that I know of is even proposing this.  So pull your panties out and take a breath.  You're worked up over something that doesn't even exist.  I hope you didn't read my utility uniform proposal, you would have broken your keyboard.

[jimmydeanno]

and full-size medals for SMV recipients.  It's a prestigious and rare award and we should make a new, distinctive way to display it on CAP uniforms because it's not distinctive enough yet. 

The SMV and BMV already have full-sized medals.  We don't have a way to wear them that way - it's for presentation purposes only.  Same argument for the neck drape idea - for presentation purposes only.  Stop reading into things that aren't there.

Creating a neck drape for the highest medals in CAP for presentation purposes doesn't smack of wannabeism or open the door to authorizing full sized medals on BDUs.

To me, I think it would be a great idea if the full sized medals ALL had neck drapes for presentation.  There's ribbons and mini-medals for actual wear.  Plus, it'd look good in a shadow box.

I say go for it.

[M.S.]

Don't be angry.  It's just a discussion; a debate even.  It isn't going to happen and no one that I know of is even proposing this.  So pull your panties out and take a breath.  You're worked up over something that doesn't even exist.  I hope you didn't read my utility uniform proposal, you would have broken your keyboard.

Whos angry?  I think neck orders are a great idea to make it distinctive, but we really shouldn't limit it to mess dress.  I think a red, silver, white and black fourragere on the BDUs would give the award earners a particularly distinctive look.  And a grand sash across the breast in service dress would make the award stand-out more.  Lots of nations and services and organizations and orders use breast sashes to denote awards.  This is not something new.

I mean, you know... just for presentation purposes.  The person would have to remove the neck ribbons and sash and fourragere after they presented it.  This is just for the award ceremony.

But full size medals on the blues shirts is done by AFJROTC so there's an even closer connection!  The USAF already allows it on their uniforms so it shouldn't be a big deal for CAPers to wear a full size SMV on their pockets in short sleeved blues.

[jimmydeanno]

The USAF already allows it on their uniforms so it shouldn't be a big deal for CAPers to wear a full size SMV on their pockets in short sleeved blues.

Have you ever read the AF uniform manual?  The AF doesn't have a regular combination that has full-sized medals.  Honorguardsman do - but they aren't "normal."

[M.S.]

The USAF already allows it on their uniforms so it shouldn't be a big deal for CAPers to wear a full size SMV on their pockets in short sleeved blues.

Have you ever read the AF uniform manual?  The AF doesn't have a regular combination that has full-sized medals.  Honorguardsman do - but they aren't "normal."

I meant "their" AFROTC uniform just like they still control the CAP uniform because the base of it is an Air Force uniform with distinctive CAP insignia.  See --- this cadet knows how to wear medals:



More like this please.

[Flying Pig]

and full-size medals for SMV recipients.  It's a prestigious and rare award and we should make a new, distinctive way to display it on CAP uniforms because it's not distinctive enough yet. 

The SMV and BMV already have full-sized medals.  We don't have a way to wear them that way - it's for presentation purposes only.  Same argument for the neck drape idea - for presentation purposes only.  Stop reading into things that aren't there.

Creating a neck drape for the highest medals in CAP for presentation purposes doesn't smack of wannabeism or open the door to authorizing full sized medals on BDUs.

To me, I think it would be a great idea if the full sized medals ALL had neck drapes for presentation.  There's ribbons and mini-medals for actual wear.  Plus, it'd look good in a shadow box.

I say go for it.

You know what.  I didnt even think about that part.  The SMV BMV and DSM are the only full size medals and the full size medals are only worn for ceremonial purposes, basically on the night it is presented and no other time.

But please......No full size medals on our short sleeve shirts!  But a sash is nice

[lordmonar]

Anyone going to call him a poser? 

Well seeing as how M.S. has taken this discussion up a notch or two....I vote LOCK!

[jimmydeanno]

I meant "their" AFROTC uniform just like they still control the CAP uniform because the base of it is an Air Force uniform with distinctive CAP insignia.  See --- this cadet knows how to wear medals:



More like this please.

That's JROTC, the High-School cadet program.  AFROTC (college level officer accession program) doesn't have a combo for full sized medals either.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I hate to break it to you.....but how are we getting this stuff about the SMV is equal to the Silver Star, the BMV is equal to the Bronze Star, etc.  No it isnt.  In no way shape or form.  The BMV is in no way equivalent to someone who would have earned a Air Force Commendation with a "V". 
We are worried about the military thinking we are posers, yet we are comparing our medals to their combat valor medals.   One of you SMV guys walk up to a Silver Star recipient and tell them they are equivilant medals and see what answer you get.

There is no equivalency chart for our medals to compare to military combat medals.  None of the medals we have compare to the military's medals or any other organizations medals for that matter.  They are ours.  They are CIVILIAN medals for heroism.  They are given by hundreds if not thousands of organizations, cities and counties and states.

Im curious, I am in CA.  So is our SMV equal to the Fresno County Sheriffs Medal of Honor?  The CHPs Medal of Valor?  Since we are a nationwide organization, maybe we should look into the criteria the FBI or DEA use to award their medals and compare those.  Is the SMoV equal to the Police Cross or the Attorney Generals Medal of Honor? How about the Red Cross?  Do they have medals?  Lets get a chart with every valor medal out there and show how ares are equal to theirs.
It is awarded so rarely nobody outside of CAP will ever notice, and after the ceremony is over, it wont be worn that way again.  I think after all these years there really isnt any reason to change it now, just leave it alone.  But if someone decided to hang one around the recipients neck, OK.

When I was awarded a Police medal, it went around my neck, and there were military members in the audience.  I wasnt embarrassed, or worried about someone thinking that I thought I was getting the Congressional Medal of Honor.   When the military members came and shook my hand, I dont recall any of them whispering in my ear "Remember poser, thats not the Congressional Medal of Honor."
I kept it on for the night, and now its in laying on a shelf on book case.

We are getting hung up on this issue about hanging it around peoples necks, when in reality, the military is about the only organization who DOESNT do it.

In police and fire services, where I am at least, every medal has a neck strap.  They are used for ceremonial purposes, and ARE NOT worn after.

I see you have misunderstood my post.  I will explain.

There has to be some criteria for deciding whether to award an SMV or a BMV for a specific act of heroism.  So, since everyone can relate to the Silver vs. Bronze Star, there is informal guidance as to the nature of heroism applied to assist in the decision making.

The same criteria apply to award of the Airman's Medal (or Soldiers' Medal, or Navy-Marine Corps Medal) vs. the appropriate service Commendation Medal.

You won't find it in writing anywhere.  But IF you put someone in for an Airmans' Medal, someone will ask you:  "Is the herosim exhibited in this act that which would justify a Silver Star if it were in combat?"  If you cannot answer "Yes," you will be told to downgrade the recommendation.

And yes, this is a "Been there, done that" moment.  I have been, at various times in my life, the person making making the recommendation, on a staff committee considering recommendations for a general officer, and the person recommended for an award.

The same careful consideration applies to us... If the heroism is not such that would justify a Silver Star if it were demonstrated in combat, a lesser award than the SMV for heroism is appropriate.

Yes, I know other medals come on a neck ribbon, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom.  Police and Fire service medals do, too.  CAP is not the police and fire service.  CAP is not the Special Olympics, either, and they get neck medals, too.

I still think that it would be pretentious to wear the SMV on a neck ribbon.

But hey... do what you want. 

How about a "Miss Congeniality" sash, too?

[Timbo]

Not needed. 

[Hawk200]

As for the "it's not about the Medal of Honor" argument, it is. The initial post states "Each of the military services has their highest award as a neck drape award" Unless there is another one that I'm not aware, that is the Medal of Honor.

It's a decoration with a great deal required to be elible for it: combat heroism, above and beyond the call of duty, and quite often it's awarded posthumously. We don't have such any such equivalent requirement or circumstances for any decoration in CAP.

All other decorations are below the MOH, there is no other award like it in the US military. If someone with an MOH was to join CAP, they could wear it. To make our SMV a neck decoration is just going to be copying the military for an award that doesn't have near the distinction of the MOH for the sole purpose of having a neck decoration.

[James Shaw]

Yes medals around the neck just for mess dress sounds good.  Let's also institute colorful SMV sashes for service dress and full size SMV medals on short sleeve blues and intricate fourrageres for BDU's.  Each of those tradition ways of displaying an award has just as much connection to the CAP Silver Medal of Valor as does wearing it around the neck and each of those has just as much connection to the way CAP wears its awards as a collar medal.   They're all done commonly around the world in militaries or civilian organizations and governmental agencies --- this is not something new.

I vote we authorize special sashes, fourrageres and full-size medals for SMV recipients.  It's a prestigious and rare award and we should make a new, distinctive way to display it on CAP uniforms because it's not distinctive enough yet. 

The exact same argument you're making for neck medals applies just as much to sashes, fourrageres or a full size medal on short sleeve blues shirts.  So what do you think about that?  I think my suggestion makes it even MORE distinctive and important looking.

No need for sarcasm if you dont like the idea just say so and move on.

[major pain]

the topic was not the comparison of the CAP medals of valor and ANY MILITARY Medals. the topic was Should the CAP allow the Medal of Valor Awardees to wear the Medal with certain uniforms as a neck drape.

not if the medal awardees are posers, or that the idea is to make the award like the Medal of Honor.

Its not a comparison the SMV and BMV are their own awards, the stand alone with their own criteria of consideration.

They shouldn't be looked at as what the military has in comparison. WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY!

I say if the members would like the awardees of the highest award that can be given in CAP to have the honor of a distinction on certain situations then yes.

TO ONLY BE CONSIDERED AS A COMPARISON TO THE MILITARY AWARDS NO!

[Timbo]

Instead of spending money on a neck drape, perhaps a section on the national website with a picture of the person who received the SMV and the citation.  That would be more neat than drapes.

Honestly, if a person who receives the SMV needs to showcase it every time they put their blues on, something is wrong.  Wear the ribbon, or wear the medal on the mess.  I believe that to be enough. 

Now saying all of that, not having a SMV myself I could care less either way.  If those that have it get together (and they will) and press for the neck drape, so be it.  It will just be one more item that Vanguard will charge $40.00 for!!