Silver Medal of Valor

[Eclipse]

The BSA Eagle Award is like the MOH in the same way.

Eagle = Spaatz in this context.

It is not for valor or special action but for cumulative and objective achievements.

Every new cadet can be a Spaatz, every new scout can be an Eagle.

Not every CAP member can get an SMV any more than every Airman could get a MOH.

Otherwise, neckstrap, no neckstrap, makes no difference to me, we'll get negative comparisons no matter what we do, so our best bet is to do what is best for us and ignore the comparisons to other services.

[PlaneFlyr]

There are plenty of examples of neck-worn valor medals, so the MoH isn't unique in that regard.  Even within the USAF, you have the AFC as a neck device.  Of course a recipient typically would were the ribbon for day-to-day activities, just like most MoH recipients.  Most miliatary/organizational neck-drape medals are reserved for the highest honor(s) within that organization, which is what the SMV/BMV are for CAP.  So from a historical standpoint, I don't see any reason it couldn't be approved as a neck device.

Most of the negatives about it seem to be a stature issue.  I haven't seen anybody trying to equate our SMV/BMV with the MoH in stature.  The ribbon color alone would distinguish this from the MoH, so I can't see anyone confusing the two.    Even if the correct ribbon were used for the long portion (my wife says custom ribbon has to be purchased 100 yds at a time, and costs about $700, so I understand why the one in the photos uses plain red) it'll still be distinct.

Overall I think it's a good looking piece.  If it were an approved item, I'd be proud to wear one.

[PlaneFlyr]

Been a long time since I made an impassioned post, but sometimes a topic strikes a nerve. . . . .

Given the criteria, the SMV is roughly the equivalent of the services life-saving medals under non-combat conditions, and NOT the Medal of Honor.

I can appreciate and respect the actions of those brave CAP members who risked life and limb to save others **BUT** MOH's are awarded for actions performed in a hail of bullets or other thingies specially-made to ruin your day.  They are often awarded in conjunction with a Purple Heart, and all too-often pinned to a flag-draped casket, or to the Servicemember who was medically retired for injuries sustained while earning the medal.

I have read all the MOH narratives, and was truly humbled and moved by the actions listed therein.  To put these two awards in the same category could be considered an affront to many, and belies the sense of perspective and humility under which we, as CAP Members should serve.

To those in dire need of a reality-check, let me offer an unsolicited "you're welcome."

Actually, there have been posthumous CAP SMV awards as well. 

[Stonewall]

Like I said, and PlaneFlyr touched on, the second poster (Gunner C) made this discussion a comparison of the SMV vs the MOH.

That is not what this thread is about.  I think everyone can agree that the SMV is not the MOH.  Can we get over this?  Please?

That said, sure there are some similarities:

1.  They are both awards for Valor.
2.  They are both worn as ribbons on a "ribbon rack".
3.  They are both the highest awards that can be earned for a specific service/organization.

By the argument that so many are giving, by comparing it to the MOH, the same argument could be used for every CAP and military award.  The Army Commendation Medal is a ribbon and a medal that can be worn on your chest.  So is the CAP Commander's Commendation Medal.  Same thing, right.  Both have the word "commendation" in them and both are similar in many ways.  So why don't the same people that are so hell bent on comparing the SMV to the MOH argue the points between other medals?  Simply put, it's a moot point.

Many folks here need to get over the whole fear of offending people who R_E_A_L_L_Y earned something in the "Real Military".  I have met several MOH recipients.  I can guarantee you that none of them, NONE, would be the least bit insulted sitting next to a CAP SMV recipient with their SMV around their neck, just like a MOH recipient wore.

And again, it is all a moot point because with guidelines on the wear/display of the SMV neck medal, it would only be worn for specific events under certain conditions.  Like I said before, it's not like someone would show up in their CAP Golf Shirt with this thing around their neck.

Bottom line, it isn't a big deal.  No one would be offended because there is no comparison to the MOH.  Different medals that are both awarded for valor; one in can only be earned in combat for the military, the other for risking your butt and saving the life of a fellow human while a member in CAP.

[Timbo]

How about just NO.  We do not need more blingage, we need to eliminate as much as we can.  Some members already look like clowns.  Lets lose the "look at me, I am better than you" mentality, and shift our efforts to the mindset of "let me help you fellow member".

[Stonewall]

How about just NO.  We do not need more blingage, we need to eliminate as much as we can.  Some members already look like clowns.  Lets lose the "look at me, I am better than you" mentality, and shift our efforts to the mindset of "let me help you fellow member".

Any other time I would agree with you here.  But in this case, I don't think an extremely small percentage of CAP members at very specific functions would be an issue at all.  It's not like a huge ridiculous "Pluto patch" on BDUs or a gawdy wing patch, it is something prestigious without any hokey story behind it.

I am a huge anti-bling guy.  I can't stand it when senior members wear ribbons on short-sleeve blues.  But this is a very tiny piece of what CAP has that equates to something great and you do not take a weekend course, AFAIDL course, or send in two box tops to get it.  No matter what type of person you are, how old, how big, small or how much training you have under your belt, the SMV/BMV indicate that you have risked your life to preserve another.  I don't think it would be so wrong to have a prominent means to display that valor on specific occasions in a specific uniform.

[M.S.]

If you're anti-bling, then don't advocate for more bling which has no basis in the award's history.

It's not like a huge ridiculous "Pluto patch" on BDUs or a gawdy wing patch, it is something prestigious without any hokey story behind it.

Disagree.  No offense to the few SMV recipients here, but a lot of the stories behind some of the SMV's seem pretty average to me.  Actual examples include awarding of the SMV for directing traffic at a car accident scene, using a fire extinguisher on an aircraft's landing gear that was on fire, dozens of SMVs for moving a person out of a burning car and so on/  (Cars don't really "blow up" like the do on TV)  A great number of SMVs are awarded for people's actions outside of any CAP context whatsoever.  In fact SMVs are awarded to CAP members who are law enforcement and EMTs for doing what they get paid to do during their duties as an EMT or law enforcement officer.  For one example, the SMV was given to a CAP member who, while on duty as a deputy sheriff, and responding to a call went into a smoke filled apartment and carried the person out. 

I don't even see why CAP even recognizes actions outside of CAP.  I think they're noteworthy actions-- I'm not saying they aren't.  Kudos to the people who did those things.  But shouldn't the Sheriff's department, or ambulance company recognize the person for actions performed as a member of their organization?  Or the community in which the action took place?  Why would "Civil Air Patrol" recognize those actions with a Civil Air Patrol decoration just because the person also happened to have a current membership with CAP when they performed the action?   Shouldn't CAP be recognizing actions there were performed while the member was acting for CAP?

[Stonewall]

If you're anti-bling, then don't advocate for more bling which has no basis in the award's history.

Well, then lets get rid of patches, badges, ribbons and uniforms all together.

Disagree.  No offense to the few SMV recipients here, but a lot of the stories behind some of the SMV's seem pretty average to me.  Actual examples include awarding of the SMV for directing traffic at a car accident scene, using a fire extinguisher on an aircraft's landing gear that was on fire,...

There are bogus "stories" behind a lot of heros.  The MOH was awarded as a reenlistment bonus during the Civil War.  That's why you'll see several people from that time period with two awards...one was for herosim, the other for reenlisting.  But the legitimate actions of someone who has earned the SMV should be recognized.

Don't think that I'm sitting here thinking of this crap.  I don't care either way as I am not an SMV/BMV recipient, but someone presented a question asking for our thoughts and this whole thing turned into a huge MOH vs SMV debate. 

No service has more "bling" than the US Army, yet everyone is cool with their highest medal for valor being worn around the neck.  Personally for me, I think it would be cool for CAP too.

[Eclipse]

(Cars don't really "blow up" like the do on TV) 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uXeC39ut_8

[Flying Pig]

In my experience, what blows up is the shocks and the bumpers and the tires.

[swamprat86]

...and gas containers in the truck bed.

[Cecil DP]

There are bogus "stories" behind a lot of heros.  The MOH was awarded as a reenlistment bonus during the Civil War.  That's why you'll see several people from that time period with two awards...one was for herosim, the other for reenlisting.

In 1912 the War Department recognized that many Medal sof Honor were awarded arbitrarily and revoked somewhere close to 300 of them. Those that remained are legitimate.

There are plenty of examples of neck-worn valor medals, so the MoH isn't unique in that regard.  Even within the USAF, you have the AFC as a neck device.

Not so, The AFC is a chest Medal. The only Federal awards that are "Collar" decorations are the Medal of Honor, The Presidential Medal of Freedom, and the Commander grade of the Legion of Merit which can only be awarded to foreigners.

[Eclipse]

How about a belt buckle?

[AlphaSigOU]

Not so, The AFC is a chest Medal. The only Federal awards that are "Collar" decorations are the Medal of Honor, The Presidential Medal of Freedom, and the Commander grade of the Legion of Merit which can only be awarded to foreigners.

And don't forget the even rarer Congressional Space Medal of Honor; even this award is only a regular medal. It's the only U.S. medal that's jeweled; a diamond forms the center of the medal.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Space_Medal_of_Honor

[PlaneFlyr]

If you're anti-bling, then don't advocate for more bling which has no basis in the award's history.

It's not like a huge ridiculous "Pluto patch" on BDUs or a gawdy wing patch, it is something prestigious without any hokey story behind it.

Disagree.  No offense to the few SMV recipients here, but a lot of the stories behind some of the SMV's seem pretty average to me.  Actual examples include awarding of the SMV for directing traffic at a car accident scene, using a fire extinguisher on an aircraft's landing gear that was on fire, dozens of SMVs for moving a person out of a burning car and so on/  (Cars don't really "blow up" like the do on TV)  A great number of SMVs are awarded for people's actions outside of any CAP context whatsoever.  In fact SMVs are awarded to CAP members who are law enforcement and EMTs for doing what they get paid to do during their duties as an EMT or law enforcement officer.  For one example, the SMV was given to a CAP member who, while on duty as a deputy sheriff, and responding to a call went into a smoke filled apartment and carried the person out. 

I don't even see why CAP even recognizes actions outside of CAP.  I think they're noteworthy actions-- I'm not saying they aren't.  Kudos to the people who did those things.  But shouldn't the Sheriff's department, or ambulance company recognize the person for actions performed as a member of their organization?  Or the community in which the action took place?  Why would "Civil Air Patrol" recognize those actions with a Civil Air Patrol decoration just because the person also happened to have a current membership with CAP when they performed the action?   Shouldn't CAP be recognizing actions there were performed while the member was acting for CAP?

I'm not familiar with any other medals other than the incident where I earned mine involving aircraft landing gear, so I'm assuming you're calling me a phony... or at least accusing us of embellishing.  I do take offense to that. 

For mine, we were on a CAP mission at the time, and in proper uniforms, so this clearly wasn't outside of CAP.  When we first spotted the Learjet burning, it was initially limited to two blown tires on the left side catching fire on the hot brakes while taxiing.  If that would have been the extent of the situation, it wouldn't be very noteworthy.  By the time I got the extinguishers from our building, and the other guys got the flightline gate opened, the hydraulic lines had burned through and were spraying directly onto the glowing brakes.  The aircrew and passengers (including an off-duty CAP cadet in back) weren't even aware there was a problem until the flames erupted and engulfed the left wing.  The engines were still running as we were running up from behind, which kept the hydraulic system pressurized and spraying.  Fortunately, we were almost at the plane when the big fire erupted, so we were able to extinguish it within seconds.  The flames were about 10 feet high, foreward and aft of the wing, and the only exit for the occupants was directly through the flames.  There was still over 4500 lbs of fuel onboard when it was engulfed in flames, with only 0.10 inch of aluminum in between, and with flames coming within inches of the fuel vent on bottom of the fuselage.  After we put out the initial big fire, two passengers jumped out over the still closed lower door while one of us was getting it opened.  In total, the fire reignited 4 times during the incident, and we continued fighting it until it was out.  The fire department finally showed up 7 minutes later.  We saved 5 lives, including a CAP member, so I considered the day to be a relative success.  Even better is that the only injuries were minor, and I only lost an eyebrow and the hairs on my left arm from the flames.

Perhaps you can enlighten me on what you consider worthy?  Should we have allowed the Learjet to reignite and continue burning after the people were safe so that our pictures would appear more dramatic? (technically, we probably should have done that anyway since there was no longer life in danger)

I have read many CAP member's valor citations, and am aware that there is some range to what actions have earned the SMV and BMV.  Some may seem like a lot more danger was involved than others.  But the criteria are still the same; was the member's life/health endangered, were they aware of it, and would it have made the person look bad if they didn't take action (ie - a fireman on duty)?  It's not fair to try to compare a proposed recipient to a previous awards and say "Your brave action wasn't nearly as heroic as Maj. XXX's actions back in 1974, so you don't get one... please try to put yourself in more danger next time".  The recipients were put in a given situation, and took

Also if we were to limit earning of the SMV/BMV to only actions that occured while in uniform and signed into an official CAP activity, which for most people is only a couple hours a week, there would only be about 6 members who could wear either decoration.  Do you also feel the same way about the lifesaving award?  The intent is to honor the the recipient's actions, and should never be reduced to an "on the job" thing.  If so, then my NYFD friend, and many of his off-duty coworkers who died during 9/11, weren't brave since they weren't on the clock. 

I agree that there may be a few too many items of flair available for peoples' uniforms, but I don't think the way to address that problem is to eliminate, or render unobtainable, the highest decorations which have only been earned by 27/51 (SMV/BMV) current members out of 55,000.  That's just asinine.  (No offense).  I'd recommend you start a new discussion about eliminating the membership ribbon first, since that would declutter many more people's chests.

[JohnKachenmeister]

This whole thing is silly.

The Silver Medal of Valor is for heroism equivalent to that required to earn the Silver Star, if one were to compare it to combat awards, and the Airman's Medal to compare it to non-combat awards.  The Bronze Medal of Valor is for heroism equivalent to that which would earn the Bronze Star Medal with "V" device if it were in combat, or the Air Force Commendation Medal in non-combat situations.

Putting the SMV on a neck ribbon is just plain pretentious.

The Medal of Honor (and yes, I know that there have been a few exceptions) is for "Conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity" in action against an armed enemy, such valor being "Above and beyond the call of duty."

I cannot conceive of any non-combat heroism that would rise to that level. 

[Flying Pig]

I hate to break it to you.....but how are we getting this stuff about the SMV is equal to the Silver Star, the BMV is equal to the Bronze Star, etc.  No it isnt.  In no way shape or form.  The BMV is in no way equivalent to someone who would have earned a Air Force Commendation with a "V". 
We are worried about the military thinking we are posers, yet we are comparing our medals to their combat valor medals.   One of you SMV guys walk up to a Silver Star recipient and tell them they are equivilant medals and see what answer you get.

There is no equivalency chart for our medals to compare to military combat medals.  None of the medals we have compare to the military's medals or any other organizations medals for that matter.  They are ours.  They are CIVILIAN medals for heroism.  They are given by hundreds if not thousands of organizations, cities and counties and states.

Im curious, I am in CA.  So is our SMV equal to the Fresno County Sheriffs Medal of Honor?  The CHPs Medal of Valor?  Since we are a nationwide organization, maybe we should look into the criteria the FBI or DEA use to award their medals and compare those.  Is the SMoV equal to the Police Cross or the Attorney Generals Medal of Honor? How about the Red Cross?  Do they have medals?  Lets get a chart with every valor medal out there and show how ares are equal to theirs.
It is awarded so rarely nobody outside of CAP will ever notice, and after the ceremony is over, it wont be worn that way again.  I think after all these years there really isnt any reason to change it now, just leave it alone.  But if someone decided to hang one around the recipients neck, OK.

When I was awarded a Police medal, it went around my neck, and there were military members in the audience.  I wasnt embarrassed, or worried about someone thinking that I thought I was getting the Congressional Medal of Honor.   When the military members came and shook my hand, I dont recall any of them whispering in my ear "Remember poser, thats not the Congressional Medal of Honor."
I kept it on for the night, and now its in laying on a shelf on book case.

We are getting hung up on this issue about hanging it around peoples necks, when in reality, the military is about the only organization who DOESNT do it.

In police and fire services, where I am at least, every medal has a neck strap.  They are used for ceremonial purposes, and ARE NOT worn after.

[jeders]

After reading this whole thing, the only reason I can see for not having the SMV hang around the neck, for the presentation anyway, is that we haven't done it in the past. And if we used that reasoning for everything, we'd still be a bunch of cavemen clubing our wives and dragging them home by their hair.

Ceremonially, I think it's a decent idea and I see nothing wrong with it.

[PlaneFlyr]

The bad thing about the SMV is that people try to make it "equivalent" to something else.  People should just leave it as the stand alone award that it is.

To those of you reading this who are recipients of either the SMV or BMV, or for that matter any other military or organizational valor awards... it's an honor to serve with all of you.  (Insert salute here)

[Stonewall]

There is a new rule out there folks, only medals awarded for "conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity" in action against an armed enemy, such valor being "above and beyond the call of duty are allowed to be awarded, displayed or worn around the neck.  All others, including those for sports, can no longer be worn around the neck.

Just because an award is worn around the neck does not mean someone is trying to make it remotely equivelant to the MOH or any other medal in this world worn around the neck.

Medals worn around the neck have nothing to do with being equal to the MOH.  It is completely irrelevant.